The effect of a Tory appointed Govenor General

Smallc · January 8, 2010

And I say, that since Manning (like many Reformers) is no fan of many parts of the Constitution, he wouldn't be a good Governor General.

fellowtraveller · January 8, 2010

And I say, that since Manning (like many Reformers) is no fan of many parts of the Constitution, he wouldn't be a good Governor General.

Do you think Adrienne Clarkson or Madame Jean had firm opinions on the Constitution when they were appointed as GG? Do you think either had even read the Constitution?

Edited January 8, 2010 by fellowtraveller

fellowtraveller · January 8, 2010

another analogy: do you think a single Bloc MP speaks sincerely when they pledge allegiance to Canada, as they are required to do?

g_bambino · January 8, 2010

Telling someone they can't express their opinions defeats the purpose of this board. He said that the GG is supposed to protect the constitution and not loathe it, which implies that he thinks Manning is unfit for the job.

You said he said conservatives can't serve as viceroy. He never said such a thing. I was merely demonstrating the fallacy of your rebuttal to him by turning it back on you.

Smallc · January 8, 2010

another analogy: do you think a single Bloc MP speaks sincerely when they pledge allegiance to Canada, as they are required to do?

No, and I wouldn't want them to be Governor General.

Smallc · January 8, 2010

Do you think Adrienne Clarkson or Madame Jean had firm opinions on the Constitution when they were appointed as GG? Do you think either had even read the Constitution?

I don't know if they did or not. I know the opinion of Manning, and I doubt that it would fit the role.

ToadBrother · January 8, 2010

And I say, that since Manning (like many Reformers) is no fan of many parts of the Constitution, he wouldn't be a good Governor General.

Not liking aspects of a constitution and upholding it are two different things. I'm sure just about every judge on a Provincial or Federal Supreme Court bench has at least private complaints against aspects of the Constitution, and yet they uphold it all the time.

I don't see anything particular or peculiar about Manning as GG. It's been occupied by retired politicians before. The real obstacle to Manning becoming GG is that Harper would never ever ever ever ever ever ever put him there. Harper, I'm sure, would sooner put Jean Chretien or Paul Martin in Rideau Hall than Manning, and Manning would have sooner accepted it from them than from Harper.

Smallc · January 8, 2010

Not liking aspects of a constitution and upholding it are two different things.

That's very true, but I don't think I trust Preston Manning to do that. He has a great deal of integrity...when it comes to his beliefs. I'm not his biggest fan really.

g_bambino · January 8, 2010

Do you think Adrienne Clarkson or Madame Jean had firm opinions on the Constitution when they were appointed as GG?

Did they campaign for its alteration? Manning did.

g_bambino · January 8, 2010

[D]o you think a single Bloc MP speaks sincerely when they pledge allegiance to Canada, as they are required to do?

Where is this required?

ToadBrother · January 8, 2010

Did they campaign for its alteration? Manning did.

So did Joe Clark. Do you think he should be blocked from becoming GG?

fellowtraveller · January 9, 2010

Where is this required?

when they are sworn in, required of every MP.

fellowtraveller · January 9, 2010

So did Joe Clark. Do you think he should be blocked from becoming GG?

so did Mulroney.

What do you think are the prerequisites for becoming GG. Perhaps being conversant with the Constitution,as Manning most definitely is, would be an advantage. People west of Manitoba would crap their drawers if an articulate activist Westerner was appointed. But.. Madame Jean is not going anywhere.

If she were, the qualifications for the last two GGs Clarkson and Jean, and I assume for the next one are: petite but vital newsperson working for CBC, female, visible minority. That gives two immediate candidates: Wendy Mesley and Ann Medina. Yeah I know Mesley is white, but maybe she could find some heavy ethnic influence in her background, or go in blackface or something. Medina is both American-born and old, but fits otherwise. The smart money is on Mesley.

An outside chance goes to Portia Clark, Alberta CBC news anchor, young atractive and visible minority but unfortunately for her of average size and from the West.

Smallc · January 9, 2010

So did Joe Clark. Do you think he should be blocked from becoming GG?

Joe Clark advocate for changes that don't really offend the Canadian system. Populism isn't really part of the system here...and Manning is a populist who thinks that the people should always have what they want. I wouldn't want someone who believes that controlling Royal Assent..

blueblood · January 9, 2010

Joe Clark advocate for changes that don't really offend the Canadian system. Populism isn't really part of the system here...and Manning is a populist who thinks that the people should always have what they want. I wouldn't want someone who believes that controlling Royal Assent..

Isn't what Manning advocating true democracy?

Sounds better than that elitist senate and not being able to change the constitution

Smallc · January 9, 2010

Yes...and true democracy is a terrible idea that almost no country on earth uses. Representative democracy is a much better tried and true system...and the Constitution can be changed, but it has to be done the right way.

ToadBrother · January 9, 2010

Isn't what Manning advocating true democracy?

What a ludicrously leading question.

Sounds better than that elitist senate and not being able to change the constitution

Both of which now seem to be Harper's favorite tools. That's another reason why Manning would never get the job.

ToadBrother · January 9, 2010

Joe Clark advocate for changes that don't really offend the Canadian system. Populism isn't really part of the system here...and Manning is a populist who thinks that the people should always have what they want. I wouldn't want someone who believes that controlling Royal Assent..

So it isn't people who advocate changing the Constitution so much as people advocating changes that you don't like.

As it stands, most of Manning's recommendations weren't that bad. In particular, the Triple-E senate, was a pretty good idea, that now seems very much dead.

Smallc · January 9, 2010

No, I'm not in favour of populism (which is one of the reasons that I'm still iffy about EEE). I think that it leads to a belief that one individual is always right no matter what people who know more about a subject say.

blueblood · January 9, 2010

No, I'm not in favour of populism (which is one of the reasons that I'm still iffy about EEE). I think that it leads to a belief that one individual is always right no matter what people who know more about a subject say.

But any individual is always right, that's why we have the parties presenting various platroms to key in on various individuals.

It doesn't matter if people "know" more about a subject. If they can't persuade people to follow their message, that's their problem. Dictators throughout history thought they were always right.

Smallc · January 9, 2010

But any individual is always right,

No, no they aren't.

blueblood · January 9, 2010

No, no they aren't.

Stephane Dion believed that, and where is he now?

Smallc · January 9, 2010

Chretien also believed that....So did many others.

g_bambino · January 9, 2010

So did Joe Clark. Do you think he should be blocked from becoming GG?

Yes. And I'll go further to say that no former prime minister should be made viceroy; other former ministers was bad enough.

g_bambino · January 9, 2010

when they are sworn in, required of every MP.

Well, that depends on what you mean by "Canada"; if it is as a synonym for "Elizabeth II", then yes, they are requred to give allegiance to it. If not, then no.

[tidy]

Edited January 9, 2010 by g_bambino