Canada Pension Plan & Skype: Madness

[msj]

The CPPIB and the Caisse seem to me like the 18th century French royalty - a concentration of power. It works at first, and then it doesn't.

Those sound like words uttered by a man who is just about to take a little blue pill.

Edited April 1, 2012 by msj

[August1991]

There is a difference between investing and bailing out.

There is a difference between setting up an independent investment board with a board of governance that is expected to get an investment return of 4% over the next 75 years versus politicians handing out money based on how their constituents may vote in the next election.

msj if you believe that the CPPIB or the Caisse are not subject now (or eventually) to political interference, you are naive.

I fear rather the concentration of power. IMHO, it is unwise to give all the savings of millions of people (billions if not trillions of dollars) to a small group of people to manage. This small group may at first make seemingly profitable decisions but invariably, they will be wrong.

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Millions of Russians trusted the Soviet State. Then it collapsed.

French North America once entrusted its future into the hands of the Roman Catholic Church. For a century or two, this trust worked. Now, it doesn't.

[August1991]

Those sound like words uttered by a man who is just about to take a little blue pill.

msj, I had to use urban dictionary to understand that reference.

But your point is well taken. For millions of years, people have worried about concentration of the power to decide, and whether men can get it up.

All things considered, I'm more concerned about concentration of power.

If I object to the Caisse, the CPPIB, the Soviet system or even Socialism, it's because I think that it's unwise to put all one's eggs in one basket.

Edited April 3, 2012 by August1991

[dre]

msj, I had to use urban dictionary to understand that reference.

But your point is well taken. For millions of years, people have worried about concentration of the power to decide, and whether men can get it up.

All things considered, I'm more concerned about concentration of power.

If I object to the Caisse, the CPPIB, the Soviet system or even Socialism, it's because I think that it's unwise to put all one's eggs in one basket.

The eggs end up in one basket at EITHER end of the political spectrum. Modern social democracies prospered becase power was effectively split between public and private power structures.

But beyond that you misunderstand the purpose of these kinds of programs. They are there to prevent political activism, and safeguard private property rights.

[Bryan]

We don't finance our health system this way.

We should.

[fellowtraveller]

I am not against the State forcing people to put money aside. (That is the essence of taxation.) I'm also not against the State transferring money between citizens. (That is the essence of welfare, EI and our State pension schemes.) I object to the State making critical private investment decisions. Let the State invest in public works - bridges, roads and the like. IMV, the CPPIB & Caisse should hold only government bonds so that in effect politicians would decide how to use this money.

This is so ridden with error I don't know where to start.

Forcing working people to contribute to CPP for a retirement income is not the essence of taxation. It is the opposite, the avoidance of taxation that would be required if those funds were not available at retirement age, to keep seniors from starving.

You cannot equate welgfare(available to anybody in need) with EI or CPP(insurance /pension schemes available only to those who contributed).

The State does not make critical investment choices, they establish investment guidelines and the CPPIB makes their own decisions.

The Caisse effectively does not give a shit about the quality of investment since they know the Canadian govt will have to bail out their contributors no matter what. We are talking about Quebec here.

[August1991]

Forcing working people to contribute to CPP for a retirement income is not the essence of taxation.

CPP/RRQ contributions are a payroll tax. Poor people pay this tax, rich people don't.

Fellowtraveller, how do we pay for the OAP, GAINS? Are these schemes funded? Are our provincial health insurance schemes "funded"?

The State does not make critical investment choices, they establish investment guidelines and the CPPIB makes their own decisions.

In the MBA world of the University of Walt Disney, maybe. Or rather, in the faculty of economics of the Moscow State University.

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This public English Canadian debate saddens me. In French Canada, the debate is just as ignorant but the basic issues are better understood.

Edited April 5, 2012 by August1991