Caledonia militia?

[Mr. Whiteman Esq.]

I like how you attempt to twist things and misread the meaning of certain actions. I understand that you are prone to that kind of misunderstanding. Kind of like thinking that you are wanted someplace when you really aren't.

However, the caution by the moderator was in response to a report I had made about a number of insulting posts coming from licther. His response was to tell everyone to give it up. No doubt the next couple of reports that I make about you and him will be dealt with a little more severity....like the last time you tried to take me on.....but I trust you will behave yourself better this time.

What do you mean by "last time"? I don't know what you mean by this. But whatever the case, you and tango are the only ones here engaging in personal attacks. I think you need to be more respectful of others.

[charter.rights]

How very interesting.

Would it be possible for you to take a break from insulting other posters here long enough to post some of this "forensic evidence"?

How about some of the "physical evidence". I'm sure many here would be interested in seeing it and it would also bolster your credibility tremendously to do so.

You'll have to wait for the trial and the verdict for the details.

[AngusThermopyle]

Actually I merely asked if you could post some of this "evidence" or at least some form of proof of its existence. As I mentioned it would go a long way in bolstering your cedibility.

It actually should be quite easy if so much evidence does exist. I for one am curious as to how and which ones were doctored.

So could we see something to show us this please?

Oh, I see, a trial. What a curious coincidence, pretty much every time I've asked for links, proof, whatever, the information has been tied up in a trial and unavaillable. What a curious coincidence. Every time, who would have thunk it?

Well sorry for having doubts, its now obvious to me why it can't be revealed.

Edited July 2, 2009 by AngusThermopyle

[Mr. Whiteman Esq.]

Actually I merely asked if you could post some of this "evidence" or at least some form of proof of its existence. As I mentioned it would go a long way in bolstering your cedibility.

There's nothing she can do to gain any credibility whatsoever.

[charter.rights]

There's nothing she can do to gain any credibility whatsoever.

I have lots of credibility. Too bad you don't understand the word. I believe that the word integrity misses you as well as honesty and principled.

You don't see me running away from discussion forums changing names like you, every time you get booted for insulting and disruptive behavior. The number of lies you have told - especially when you claim you have never lied - would peel the paint off a '53 Chevy.

Edited July 2, 2009 by charter.rights

[lictor616]

I have lots of credibility. Too bad you don't understand the word. I believe that the word integrity misses you as well as honesty and principled.

You don't see me running away from discussion forums changing names like you, every time you get booted for insulting and disruptive behavior. The number of lies you have told - especially when you claim you have never lied - would peel the paint off a '53 Chevy.

can somebody do something about the ad hominems here... charter can' t you keep to a civil debate... you lost, now be humble and stop attacking the posters...

[Mr. Whiteman Esq.]

I have lots of credibility. Too bad you don't understand the word. I believe that the word integrity misses you as well as honesty and principled.

You don't see me running away from discussion forums changing names like you, every time you get booted for insulting and disruptive behavior. The number of lies you have told - especially when you claim you have never lied - would peel the paint off a '53 Chevy.

Pretty childish. And no one here except maybe tango would agree with you.

Anyway, back to the issue. Thought I'd post an article from the Sachem about the smoke shop and why it is an example of a militia being needed. I think it's disgusting how that senior is deliberately and specifically being targeted. Clyde Powless is a vile piece of scum for what he's doing.

http://www.sachem.ca/news/article/179631

[tango]

as for the 4 1/2 years... VanEvery is up for a release any day now after having served 17 months... and I was referring to another gun wielding maniac. (incidentalaly VanEvery should have received a sentence exceeding 12 years for such a crime, added to the fact that he spent 13 years in prison prior to this "mishap", so the Crown's leniency here truly is inexplicable)

There was no other gun incident to my knowledge, though VanEvery did stop at the reclamation site looking for someone before going to the smoke shop.

I checked out Gary McHale's website, and it makes NO MENTION of white supremacy... in fact there isn't a word said about the racial superiority of ANY RACE... race isn't a factor in his website... Except of course to explain the sickening double standards in the OPP's conduct towards the two camps... He cites his facts, and has a very level headed approach to the mess there. The thousands of criminal charges not filed by the OPP, the utter refusal to apply the law to natives because of their privileged status. Why is he a neo nazi for addressing the very real disposition and second class status of "non-native" caledonians? Be reasonable for god's sake.

No of course it makes no mention of white supremacy. We have hate laws in Canada, remember? It's all very sleazy and camouflaged, but the site is clearly anti-native and so are his actions in Caledonia, and so are the people who follow him.

The "thousands" of charges to which McHale refers on his website are bs. He thinks every person who ever went on the reclamation site should be charged, including all the non-native supporters, Caledonians, (media too?), etc. That's just ridiculous. It's just a disinformation to mislead people, McHale's specialty.

Yet you are perfectly capable of calling all white Caledonians NEO NAZIS (of all things!) on nonsense hearsay evidence on some blog somewhere...

I have never said or implied that about the people of Caledonia, and I never will.

I said very clearly (twice now) that Gary McHale, Mark Vandermaas and Jeff Parkinson are outsiders, not from Caledonia, who attempt to incite anti-native feelings and organize Caledonians to oppose the natives, most recently by attempting to recruit a 'militia' of anti-native vigilantes.

When McHale & co are in Caledonia for one of their hate 'rallies', Neo Nazis and other white supremacist thinkers join them, like Paul Fromm, Dave Ruud, Melissa Guille, etc. It is clear from the company he attracts, and from his racist website that McHale is a white supremacist thinker, and Vandermaas and Parkinson too.

In example, McHale makes a great to-do about the OPP not upholding the 'rule of law' in Caledonia. However, McHale refuses to respect Aboriginal Rights, but Aboriginal Rights are the 'rule of law' in Canada.

McHale wants to redefine the law himself ignoring what he doesn't like, and then hold the OPP to his own version of the law. Absolutely ridiculous.

[tango]

i'm sure charter rights and tango will figure out how the natives were only beating up a vile "white supremacist"... mark my words... they will excuse or ignore this bit..

It was not natives, but some Caledonians drunk and feuding, and it became very serious. Nothing to do with this thread.

[tango]

Tensions on the rise again surrounding Six Nations’ land claim in Caledonia

Tensions are on the rise again surrounding the three-year standoff over a first nations land dispute in Caledonia, Ontario. Non native residents of Caledonia recently announced the formation of the “Caledonia Militia” in response to the lack of progress in the land dispute with the intent to “follow established procedures on the use of reasonable force to remove illegal trespassers”. The formation of the Caledonia Militia has caused a great deal of concern over the potential for violent escalation in the already tense situation.

...

The formation of the Caledonia Militia has been met with strong criticism from the Canadian Union of Public Employees’ (CUPE) First Nations Solidarity Working Group, who argue that the formation of the Caledonia Militia “represents a major escalation in regard to the conflict at Six Nations … [increasing] the possibility of violent conflict between natives and non-natives.” To show their opposition, CUPE’s First Nations Solidarity Group brought busloads of protestors from Toronto, Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo, and Guelph to gather outside the Lion’s Club in Cayuga, Ontario, where the first meeting of the militia was being held.

more ... good pics ...

http://allan.lissner.net/?p=1628

Over this period, the Canadian government has demonstrated that it has no interest in expediting the resolution of its hundreds of outstanding land claims cross the country, and certainly not those of Six Nations, and this has left the people of Six Nations, and the Canadians living alongside them, extremely frustrated.

As a result, some non-Native residents of Caledonia have at times over the last three years gravitated towards the calls and rallies of anti-native, white supremacist, and even neo-Nazi forces. And now, some of these forces are calling for the formation of a Caledonia militia to police the natives directly, Doug Fleming, one of the militia’s initiators, wrote on June 14, 2009 that “Due to the ongoing reality that the OPP refuses to enforce the Criminal Code with regards to people’s property rights I am forming the Caledonia Militia to ensure that the criminal code is upheld in Haldimand County.” Fleming conveniently omits the fact that the owners of the land in question in Haldimand County are the people of Six Nations, who are the true title-holders of the 950,000-acre Haldimand tract that runs through southwestern Ontario. Today, the people of Six Nations control only about 5% of that original tract. The conflict between white working-class settlers and natives stems from the fact that the Canadian government permitted the sell-off of land that it had no right to.

Such a move by anti-Native forces signals a major escalation in regard to the conflict at Six Nations. On June 23 at 7 p.m., a meeting is being held at the Lion’s Hall in Cayuga to found this militia.

There is evidence that Fleming and other anti-native organizers in Caledonia, such as Gary McHale, receive substantial support from local developers and real-estate interests. At a time when workers in Canada are experiencing attacks on their economic and social interests on all fronts, the institutionalization of racism and settler chauvinism in the form of an anti-native militia will be a serious political blow to the interests of working-class people, especially in one of the most rapidly deindustrializing regions of Canada.

The way forward must be to unite our class and resist attempts to have us divided through racism. The real enemies of working people are not the native peoples of the land, nor the Canadians who have settled on indigenous territories, but the past colonial landlords and the current capitalists who benefit from the ongoing theft of people’s lands and resources.

Let’s stop the formation of this racist militia and start organizing working-class people against our real enemies: the bourgeois class and its repressive arm, the Canadian state.

http://basicsnewsletter.blogspot.com/2009/...-formed-in.html

Edited July 3, 2009 by tango

[Mr. Whiteman Esq.]

Tensions on the rise again surrounding Six Nations’ land claim in Caledonia

Tensions rise when Six Nations decides to provoke some sort of response.

Also, you make an issue about McHale etc. not being from Caledonia, but what do I read on Lissner's website: "Protesters bussed in by CUPE's First Nations Solidarity Working Group show their opposition to the formation of the Caledonia Militia."

So most of these "protesters" are either Six Nations or from out of town. You're not even from Caledonia yourself. I think many of these people are members of AW@L, which is essentially an anarchist group.

[tango]

Tensions rise when Six Nations decides to provoke some sort of response.

Also, you make an issue about McHale etc. not being from Caledonia, but what do I read on Lissner's website: "Protesters bussed in by CUPE's First Nations Solidarity Working Group show their opposition to the formation of the Caledonia Militia."

So most of these "protesters" are either Six Nations or from out of town. You're not even from Caledonia yourself. I think many of these people are members of AW@L, which is essentially an anarchist group.

Protesters are not trying to organize a 'militia' in Caledonia. Only McHale and his lackeys are trying to create conflict.

[tango]

Pretty childish. And no one here except maybe tango would agree with you.

Anyway, back to the issue. Thought I'd post an article from the Sachem about the smoke shop and why it is an example of a militia being needed. I think it's disgusting how that senior is deliberately and specifically being targeted. Clyde Powless is a vile piece of scum for what he's doing.

http://www.sachem.ca/news/article/179631

Clyde Powless?? No "Clyde" involved here.

Ya, well the senior in question doesn't want anything to do with McHale or Fleming or his militia, that's for damn sure!!

Powless indicated to his friend that he was just trying to make a point and that he’d be gone by the end of the week. But all of that changed-when Doug Fleming announced he was forming a Caledonia militia.

“Doug asked me to sign a paper allowing him to remove Powless using reasonable force,” says Palmer. “I refused. Two days later Fleming announced he was forming a Caledonia militia (now called the Caledonia Peacekeepers) and Powless proclaimed he would stay and fight.

And now Vandermaas is badmouthing the senior. Pretty nasty.

More to the point:

“This is a land claim,” says Powless. “Three years later there has been no resolution. The federal government has a responsibility to resolve the issue. We’re all victims here.”

Make no mistake; Powless and Palmer are still friends. Palmer can’t wait for this to be over so the pair can once again share a coffee at Tim Horton’s. Powless, a self-employed artist, is passionate about his cause.

Powless is very clear that he is not threatening but says he “might have to die” before there is a resolution to the present land claim.

“The sad reality is that nowhere has there been an oppressed people advanced without violence,” says Powless.

[Mr. Whiteman Esq.]

Clyde Powless?? No "Clyde" involved here.

Oh, sorry, I meant "Boots". Don't matter, they're all related, they're all the same.

Make no mistake; Powless and Palmer are still friends. Palmer can’t wait for this to be over so the pair can once again share a coffee at Tim Horton’s. Powless, a self-employed artist, is passionate about his cause.

So they were "friends" before this and now Powless decides to hold him hostage and terrorize the old guy?

[Wild Bill]

Oh, sorry, I meant "Boots". Don't matter, they're all related, they're all the same.

So they were "friends" before this and now Powless decides to hold him hostage and terrorize the old guy?

Only a couple of pages into this thread I asked why Palmer is willing to go through this when it could mean that he loses his land. The whole situation seems contrived, to me.

Still waiting for an answer.

[charter.rights]

Only a couple of pages into this thread I asked why Palmer is willing to go through this when it could mean that he loses his land. The whole situation seems contrived, to me.

Still waiting for an answer.

Why don;t you get up and away from your computer and go ask Ernie yourself?

[Mr. Whiteman Esq.]

Protesters are not trying to organize a 'militia' in Caledonia. Only McHale and his lackeys are trying to create conflict.

Six Nations busing in anarchist protesters from outside of Caledonia doesn't help.

[tango]

Six Nations busing in anarchist protesters from outside of Caledonia doesn't help.

Making things up doesn't help either.

Is it true there is only one member of the 'militia'?

Edited July 11, 2009 by tango

[charter.rights]

Oops! Here is their second member......

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.p...mp;postcount=38

I live 20 minutes from where all of this is going on. I have been a proud supporter of Gary McHale and Doug Flemming for the past 3 years. If you want the insider information let me know. I joined the Caledonia Militia because I believe it's wrong what's going on here.

a couple of weeks ago I went to the information meeting for the Militia. Gary and Dough brought up some excellent points http://www.caledoniawakeupcall.com/

These indians think they are above the law. at the meeting we were just talking and minding our own business while the indians and non native protesters were chanting, beating their war drums and refusing to listen to the police when told to go to the other side of the road and to leave us alone. There were about 100 native and non native protesters and maybe 40 of us white folks yet the police were treating us like we were the criminals .... we booked the hall ... we were quiet and respectful ... we were forced to vacate the property within 30 minutes of the meetings conclusion.

I was wearing my Southern Cross tattoo loud and proud.

Us white people have been tormented by these indians for 3 years. We get denied our right to free speech, we get denied the right to wave the Canadian Flag, we get arrested for walking down the street to hang up the Canadian Flag on Canada Day weekend, the OPP stand by while the indians beat up an elderly couple, We get robbed by indians and the OPP ignore it.

The indians are running around DCE with guns, threatening municipal workers who were sent to cut off water and hydro to the site (i was one of those municipal workers), they block major roads in and out of Caledonia, they are currently threatening to make HWY#3 a toll road.

Recently they built an illegal cigarette shack on an elderly white mans property against his will. By-Law officers are now threatening the white man to remove it or face fines/arrest ... elderly white man tells indians to tear it down ... indians threaten him ... OPP are called in by the indian who claims he has a right to have the illegal smoke shack on the elderly mans property and that the white man is infact threatening him. So long story short the white man is about to be fined/arrested if the smoke shack isn't removed.

This situation is all ****ed up. I'll post more as I know more.

By the way I personally know the contractor that bought the land ... funny how the indians didn't start their terrorist acts at DCE until there were houses, water and electricity there.

Stormfront...The "Friends of Gary" club.

[tango]

Six Nations busing in anarchist protesters from outside of Caledonia doesn't help.

Actually union protesters - CUPE 3903 and 3906, and yes it did help.

We got the good press - OPP: "most organized and prepared protest I've ever seen" ... and the 'militia' goons got exposed as idiots. Any incursion of white supremacist thinking into Ontario will be met with protest.

How's the recruiting going?

Still just Doug Fleming?

Oh right! And Mr. Stormfront Nazi-wannabe above ...

These indians think they are above the law

about 100 native and non native protesters and maybe 40 of us white folks

chanting, beating their war drums

police were treating us like we were the criminals

I was wearing my Southern Cross tattoo loud and proud.

Us white people have been tormented by these indians for 3 years.

the OPP stand by while the indians beat up an elderly couple

The indians are running around DCE with guns

We get robbed by indians and the OPP ignore it.

... elderly white man tells indians to tear it down ... indians threaten him ...

What a bunch of baloney, all made up - except the tattoo of course.

I think it's evident to readers where these people are 'coming from'. I'm guessing their ancestors were illegal squatters without even a fictitious government deed!

Here are the 'militia' wannabes, in living colour:

"White tribe, white power" at the beginning of this video is actual audio footage from a rally by Caledonians. I know. I was there standing next to these cracked up goons.

Edited July 11, 2009 by tango

[tango]

http://rabble.ca/news/2009/07/caledonia

Conflict in Caledonia: Peacekeepers or a new settler militia?

The area surrounding the town of Caledonia, Ontario, has been this province’s ground-zero when it comes to First Nations land claim issues.

A 200-year land claim dispute between the government and the Six Nations came to the mainstream media’s attention in the winter of 2006, when Six Nations protesters occupied the Douglass Creek Estates (a residential development) to defend their rights to the land.

Six Nations protesters argue that the Douglas Creek site was given to them by the Crown in 1784. Anti-Six Nations protesters from the Caledonia area assert that the land was official surrendered to the Crown in 1841.

Animosity against the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP), under Commissioner Julian Fantino, has come from both sides in the dispute. Residents of Caledonia organized through the group Caledonia Wake Up Call (CWUP) feel that Commissioner Fantino botched the police operation to remove the Six Nations protesters from the development site, triggering clashes between activists and local residents and solidarity blockades.

...

According to Tom Keefer from the CUPE 3903 First Nations Solidarity Working Group (FNSWG), militia organizers such as McHale strictly control the group's message by, "Never being openly racist because he frames everything in terms of not being against Natives but that they are for the rule of law, or that they want equal rights. And he constantly talks about the racist police practices of the OPP and about all this oppression towards the while people in the area."

McHale holds fast to his political line, running as an independent candidate -- with a law and order platform -- in the last federal election in the Haldimand-Norfolk region on Ontario, where he claims he came in first in the city of Caledonia itself.

Crying 'terrorism' to discredit Native land claims

The CWUC has certainly proven its part in the escalation of the conflict here, as it throws around emotion-laden terms such a ‘public safety,’ ‘lawlessness’ and ‘terrorism’ to maintain a red alert level among the citizens of Caledonia

As an example, a June 11, 2009 post on the CWUC site titled, "Six Nation Women march in support of terrorism," stated, "In another exceptionally pathetic display by police, a group of Six Nations women including extortionist Ruby Montour and Janie Jamieson were among those conducting a highway blockade near Hamilton, Ontario."

...

The threat from the Caledonia Militia

Keefer helped organize a CUPE 3903 FNSWG protest on June 23, 2009, against the creation of the militia. Two hundred people attended the counter-protest while the police kept the group from shutting down the meeting.

Keefer himself is on CWUC’s terrorist list in his own right for supporting the Six Nations. CUPE is also named, charged with supporting terrorism.

Parkinson, head author of CWUC’s website, posted his opinion of CUPE and Keefer, “This is a union after all so I anticipated something different from the usual racist, bigoted, ignorant crowd that gathers in small numbers to protest against law and order in Caledonia. Fortunately I’m not afraid to admit it when I’m wrong and I was very wrong.”

Regarding the militia itself, Keefer explains, “According to Fleming, the militia would patrol areas in Caledonia by car and by foot wearing uniforms and communicating with radio equipment. If alerted to an instance of native lawlessness the militia would then use reasonable force to affect a citizen’s arrest and would hold the native person until such time as the OPP arrived to take the prisoner to jail.”

At the June 23 meeting itself, the group “made a show of stating they were not racist and that they welcome people of all races into their militia, but the fact remains they were still going to be carrying about actions to restore the rule of law.”

The “rule of law,” according to McHale and Parkinson, is of course the rule of law based on a traditional British system steeped in colonial history towards First Nations communities -- this is the institution they seek to protect.

...

On some level, even the notion of anyone forming a militia in Canada provokes that nervous type of humour that we as Canadians are prone to. Even considering the creation of such a group seems reactionary and hysterical if not outright paranoid. Unfortunately, the Doug Fleming’s and Gary McHale’s types exist in the world and they are dead serious about their intentions.

...

And yet, it is often ancient unresolved issues at the heart of such conflicts. In this case, the troubles of Caledonia are only a symbol of the larger, much uglier issue of unresolved land claims, a symbol of a greater problem across Canada where governments hide behind superficial skirmishes between communities rather than tackle the deeper issue of fairly resolving land claims.

....................................

An interesting outsider perspective on the Caledonia 'militia'.

[tango]

Oh I see Mr. Whiteman Esq has been banned.

There is justice.

[charter.rights]

Yes! Justice may not be swift...but it is true....

[lictor616]

Oh I see Mr. Whiteman Esq has been banned.

There is justice.

my only question is why you yourself charter.rights er um, I mean tango haven't been quarantined as well... I can list innumerable and repeated forum trasgressions on your parts.

[charter.rights]

my only question is why you yourself charter.rights er um, I mean tango haven't been quarantined as well... I can list innumerable and repeated forum trasgressions on your parts.

Well, by jeffery... it is all within the posting guidelines. Mr. "Whiteman" has been banned here before a number of times and sneaking back onto this site violates the rules. Plus we all know that nefarious avatar can't control himself when he is presented with truth he can't propagandize. And of course threatening to sue the administrators and moderators doesn't help his case either!