Sir Bandelot Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 This is an old expression that goes back many years. To me it always meant a derogative term towards black children. Even if he used the term incorrectly, he should still apologize. "Poilievre hasn't officially apologized and the controversy continues to spread in Ottawa. In a press release issued Friday afternoon, the PMO stated that the term has been used by national media in Canada for something that sticks. The prime minister's office appears to be digging in its heels and refusing to apologize." http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/home/cont...showbyline=True Canadians will perceive this as stubbornness and insensitivity of the Prime Ministers office and members of the CPC. There have been enough allegations of racism already, and even if the term was used unintentionally, this adds to that negative image of the party. Quote
capricorn Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Canadians will perceive this as stubbornness and insensitivity of the Prime Ministers office and members of the CPC. There have been enough allegations of racism already, and even if the term was used unintentionally, this adds to that negative image of the party. What doesn't help is that Marlene Jennings thinks such terminology un-Canadian. “The PMO should be calling on anybody, especially those in politics, to purge the word from their vocabulary. They should be setting the standards. What the PMO is saying is that they’re prepared to go to the lowest common denominator.“Is that who Canadians want representing them? “That’s not my Canada.” http://www.ottawasun.com/news/ottawa/2009/05/29/9620251.html Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Argus Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 This is an old expression that goes back many years. To me it always meant a derogative term towards black children. Perhaps that says more about you than you really want to be admitting to. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
scorpio Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Poilievre's racist comments have come up before. He is young and arrogant, and even with his insincere apologizing his true colours will continue to shine through. Quote
YEGmann Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Poilievre's racist comments have come up before. He is young and arrogant, and even with his insincere apologizing his true colours will continue to shine through. Could you give a precise citation or let me call you a ... everybody knows who. Deal? Quote
scorpio Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) Could you give a precise citation or let me call you a ... everybody knows who. Deal? Let me help you with that: Poilievre was caught on tape using foul language directed at colleagues in a committee meeting,[8] and making unparliamentary arm gestures and was accused of mocking the Speaker of the House of Commons[9][10] in June 2006. Poilievre later apologized for making gestures within the Commons;[11] no apology has been made for unparliamentary language within Committee. Poilievre suggested that native people need to learn the value of hard work more than they need financial compensation. Poilievre made the comments during a radio interview June 11, 2008, just hours before Prime Minister Stephen Harper apologized for abuse Aboriginal children endured in once-mandatory residential schools Poilievre's behaviour came under intense national scrutiny in February 2007. During a radio interview with CFRA on February 22, 2007, he asserted that the Liberal party was pandering to extremist members within its own ranks: "Now we know that a lot of extremist groups and people with some very hard left-wing views have advocated for a long time that these provisions should be scrapped. Now a lot of those people supported Stéphane Dion in the leadership. A lot of them are in Stéphane Dion's caucus. And, for example, there are members of Stéphane Dion's Liberal caucus who want to legalize Hezbollah ..."[17 On May 29th 2009 Poilieve's comment that "they have the man who fathered the carbon tax, put it up for adoption to his predecessor and now wants a paternity test to prove the tar baby was never his in the first place" (tar baby is offensive to most African Americans, and has no place in the House of Commons). from Wikipedia See a pattern here? Edited May 30, 2009 by scorpio Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Check his record. Any politician, an elected representative of the people who is guilty of an act of racism or hatred proven in a court of law should be removed from office and forfeit any or all entitlement at the expense of the public. No pensions, no benefits, nothing at all. Any who aspire to the office and proven guilty should be prevented from running by means of disqualification. Quote
Sir Bandelot Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Perhaps that says more about you than you really want to be admitting to. What does it say, in your view? I would love to know Quote
YEGmann Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 Check his record. I did. Found nothing. So, you do not have any "racists comment" made by Mr. Poilievre for record, do you? Quote
scorpio Posted May 30, 2009 Report Posted May 30, 2009 I did. Found nothing.So, you do not have any "racists comment" made by Mr. Poilievre for record, do you? See post 31...tar baby and his comments about the First Nations apply. Quote
YEGmann Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 In the "tar baby" quote, the figurative speech is about an illegimate child, as I understood it, in relation to the carbon tax plan. Where is racism there? The colour of tar? Is the expression "tar sands" racist too? Your ideas about what is acceptable for the HoC looks very much arbitrary to me. Equally I can say that expression "tar sands" is offensive to Albertans and should not be used in the HoC (because it is at least not true). And please, stand to your claim: "Poilievre's racist comments have come up before." This was not "before". Regarding the "radio interview on June 11, 2008", it is not a quote or citation, it is interpretation made, as I strongly suspect, by a liberal heck in Wikipedia where everyone can put anything. We have discussed this Poilievre's announcement on the first nation's issue in 2008. What he actually said was just a truth. Bare, politically incorrect, but truth. There was critisism, not racism. He was worried about taxpayer's money. Claiming there was something racist is at least irresponsible. On the other hand, hiding millions of dollars of mis-spent money under the cover of "racism" shouting is a typical liberal's behaviour. In reality he said "That gets to the heart of the problem on these reserves where there is too much power concentrated in the hands of the leadership, and it makes you wonder where all of this money is going. We spend 10 billion dollars -- 10 billion dollars -- in annual spending this year alone now, that is an exceptional amount of money, and that is on top of all the resource revenue that goes to reserves that sit on petroleum products or sit on uranium mines, other things where companies have to pay them royalties. And that's on top of all that money that they earn on their own reserves. That is an incredible amount of money.'' What is racist here?! All the rest Wikipedia's insinuations has nothing to do with "racism", even you admitted it. Thus, sorry, you have no proof of "Poilievre's racist comments" in the past. Quote
Argus Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 Poilievre's racist comments have come up before. He is young and arrogant, and even with his insincere apologizing his true colours will continue to shine through. The statement wasn't racist. Yours was moronic, though. Maybe YOU should apologise. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 Let me help you with that:Poilievre was caught on tape using foul language directed at colleagues in a committee meeting,[8] and making unparliamentary arm gestures and was accused of mocking the Speaker of the House of Commons[9][10] in June 2006. Poilievre later apologized for making gestures within the Commons;[11] no apology has been made for unparliamentary language within Committee. Poilievre suggested that native people need to learn the value of hard work more than they need financial compensation. Poilievre made the comments during a radio interview June 11, 2008, just hours before Prime Minister Stephen Harper apologized for abuse Aboriginal children endured in once-mandatory residential schools Poilievre's behaviour came under intense national scrutiny in February 2007. During a radio interview with CFRA on February 22, 2007, he asserted that the Liberal party was pandering to extremist members within its own ranks: "Now we know that a lot of extremist groups and people with some very hard left-wing views have advocated for a long time that these provisions should be scrapped. Now a lot of those people supported Stéphane Dion in the leadership. A lot of them are in Stéphane Dion's caucus. And, for example, there are members of Stéphane Dion's Liberal caucus who want to legalize Hezbollah ..."[17 On May 29th 2009 Poilieve's comment that "they have the man who fathered the carbon tax, put it up for adoption to his predecessor and now wants a paternity test to prove the tar baby was never his in the first place" (tar baby is offensive to most African Americans, and has no place in the House of Commons). from Wikipedia See a pattern here? I see no racist statements. Are you ready to apologise now? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 Any politician, an elected representative of the people who is guilty of an act of racism or hatred proven in a court of law should be removed from office and forfeit any or all entitlement at the expense of the public. No pensions, no benefits, nothing at all. Any who aspire to the office and proven guilty should be prevented from running by means of disqualification. Uhm, yeah okay. Amazingly DUMB, but okay. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 What does it say, in your view? I would love to know That you're one of those people who is determiend to find racism in anything and everything, even if you have to make it up. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Jerry J. Fortin Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 Uhm, yeah okay. Amazingly DUMB, but okay. Dumb? Now why is that? What is dumb about dumping on those who dump themselves? Quote
tango Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) This is an old expression that goes back many years. To me it always meant a derogative term towards black children. Even if he used the term incorrectly, he should still apologize."Poilievre hasn't officially apologized and the controversy continues to spread in Ottawa. In a press release issued Friday afternoon, the PMO stated that the term has been used by national media in Canada for something that sticks. The prime minister's office appears to be digging in its heels and refusing to apologize." http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/home/cont...showbyline=True Canadians will perceive this as stubbornness and insensitivity of the Prime Ministers office and members of the CPC. There have been enough allegations of racism already, and even if the term was used unintentionally, this adds to that negative image of the party. No kidding! I guess in the adrenalin-choked haze of political one-upmanship, it doesn't occur to Harper that Parliamentarians are supposed to set an example! The only people who don't apologize when racial slurs are pointed out to them are white supremacists: They insist it is their right ... just like Poilievre and Harper. Edited May 31, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
Sir Bandelot Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) That you're one of those people who is determiend to find racism in anything and everything, even if you have to make it up. Incorrect... as usual. "In an interview, Toni Morrison said the following of its use in her book, in an acting of reclaiming: "Tar Baby is also a name, like 'nigger,' that white people call black children, black girls, as I recall…. " Google it. But, I don't think this guy meant it that way. It does not make sense in the context of what he was trying to say. Still that is how the term is understood by many people. If he doesn't know what he's saying, he should still be held responsible. The term was also recently used against Barack Obama in a derogatory way- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/14/g...b_n_101793.html I am not making this up Edited May 31, 2009 by Sir Bandelot Quote
tango Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 Tar baby was used as a derogatory description, as someone else said, referring to a child born 'with colour' clearly not belonging to the purported father. It's use evolved from that to mean any such 'sticky situation', but the reference is still based on the original, and it is still derogatory. And Poilievre is racist scum, just like Harper. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
scorpio Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 And please, stand to your claim: "Poilievre's racist comments have come up before." This was not "before". So why did he apologize? Conservative MP Pierre Poilievre has apologized for saying Canada's aboriginals need to learn the value of hard work more than they need compensation for abuse suffered in residential schools. Poilievre, the parliamentary secretary to the president of the Treasury Board, rose in the House of Commons on Thursday afternoon to acknowledge his mistake. "Yesterday on a day when the House and all Canadians were celebrating a new beginning, I made remarks that were hurtful and wrong," he said. "I accept responsibility for them and I apologize." (CTV news) He made a racist comment, pure and simple. In light of his apology his intolerant behaviour continues with the lastest tar baby comment. And I'm sure we can expect more of the same. Quote
scorpio Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 I see no racist statements. Are you ready to apologise now? The blind cannot see. Quote
Visionseeker Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 That's NOT true. Most of the Tories are under the age of 40 and so generationX kicks in and there you have a generation, that says what they think and does what they want! Alot of them are inexperience as far as working for government and they need to be taught how to act and speak as a memeber of parliament! Pierre is only 28 or 29 and comes off as a smart mouth I know everything and you don't MP! He may be a nice guy but in question period he's not! What the!?! Generation X is most certainly not Tory-town. The bulk of Tory support comes from males over 50 and females over 60. Oh, and almost every second person in Alberta. Pierre is a headline grabing twit. Most Gen Xers who care to notice see him for what he is: empty. Quote
YEGmann Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) So why did he apologize? Because exactly at that time Harper tried to present himself as "the best friend of Aboriginals". He needed acceptance of his advance by chiefs. Pierre's interview explicitly showed the chiefs as at least incompetent. Harper did not want any tensions with Aboriginals and forced Pierre to apologize, though everybody understood that he said nothing wrong. These are rules of the game, i.e. Canadian politics. This has nothing to do with racism. (By the way, does every apology mean that the person was a racist?!) He made a racist comment, pure and simple. In light of his apology his intolerant behaviour continues with the lastest tar baby comment. And I'm sure we can expect more of the same. How nice! You have no idea what racism is, you are not able to show what in the comment was racist, but in your opinion Mr. Poilievre is a pure racist! As a typical liberal you are changing your position. Now the "Aboriginal interview" is not racist, but intolerant. Can you show what is intolerant in presenting statistics on the govermnent spending and respective Aboriginal achievements? Why my question as a taxpayer "I gave you billions of dollars for certain tasks, how did you spend it?" is intolerant? Pierre is not very sophisticated in machiavelian environment of the HoC. He says truth. I would be happy if we had more such people like Pierre in our parliament. Edited May 31, 2009 by YEGmann Quote
Oleg Bach Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 Get Ignateiff to give classes on contempt of what he percieves the average person to be - dumb animals - and only WE know what is good for them - and if we are wrong in our policy making - it does not matter - because the people did not matter to us to begin with - It's like a political scientist - who's experiment fails - he cross the room and says - bring me another test tube and petri dish - I have another idea...well theory has it's fatalities..Trudeau left a lot of death in his wake - look at the social policies that spawned gang violence....do we need more experimentation by elitist nerds that after 20 years cause death? Quote
Argus Posted May 31, 2009 Report Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) Dumb? Now why is that? What is dumb about dumping on those who dump themselves? It's dumb because, as this thread shows, there are vastly different assessments of what constitutes "racism", and among the weak-minded, it simply depends on whether or not the speaker is approved of, or is from an approved-of party. And there is no crime called "racism" and thus no chance anyone will be convicted of it. Edited May 31, 2009 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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