Pirates are a growing problem!

[benny]

"Failed State" - isn't that a fancy term for poor people?

I think it is much worst than that: "Failed state" is an excuse for a more powerful state to invade and transform another country into a huge refugee camp.

Edited May 6, 2009 by benny

[JB Globe]

"Failed State" - isn't that a fancy term for poor people?

No, a failed state literally means that there is no rule of law or consistent authority across most of the country besides the authority possessed by armed groups which is based on their capacity to commit violence, rather than even the most basic social contract.

Wealth has nothing to do with it, many poor countries aren't failed states, and it's possible for a fairly wealthy nation to fail if it becomes unstable and violent enough for a long period of time.

[benny]

No, a failed state literally means that there is no rule of law or consistent authority across most of the country besides the authority possessed by armed groups which is based on their capacity to commit violence, rather than even the most basic social contract.

Wealth has nothing to do with it, many poor countries aren't failed states, and it's possible for a fairly wealthy nation to fail if it becomes unstable and violent enough for a long period of time.

So, a failed state looks very much like the ultra minimal state dreamed about by right-wing libertarians.

[Oleg Bach]

Pirates are just privateers - imagine you drive though the roughest poorest neighbourhood on the planet with a pick up truck over loaded with real nice stuff..what do you expect? Somalia is the dumping ground of the worlds filth..I guess they believe that we owe them - and if we don't pay up - they are going to resort to force - they have nothing to loose - that is what makes them dangerous.

[Oleg Bach]

No, a failed state literally means that there is no rule of law or consistent authority across most of the country besides the authority possessed by armed groups which is based on their capacity to commit violence, rather than even the most basic social contract.

Wealth has nothing to do with it, many poor countries aren't failed states, and it's possible for a fairly wealthy nation to fail if it becomes unstable and violent enough for a long period of time.

Poverty brings about all mayhem and disorder eventually. Once the wealth of a nation becomes disproportionate within the population - failed states eventually occur when one tenth of the population have all the wealth and the rest suffer grinding poverty - without a functioning populace..you can not have a state in order - hence it's failed.

[benny]

Poverty brings about all mayhem and disorder eventually. Once the wealth of a nation becomes disproportionate within the population - failed states eventually occur when one tenth of the population have all the wealth and the rest suffer grinding poverty - without a functioning populace..you can not have a state in order - hence it's failed.

Poverty as a social rule can guard against injustices, misery, enslavement and destitution.

[Oleg Bach]

Poverty as a social rule can guard against injustices, misery, enslavement and destitution.

What are you talking about? Am I dense today? I don't understand your statement..that poverty is a social rule and it in itself guards against injustice? You can get a hungry man to do anything eventually - like wash your boat in the rain as you observe in perverse glee.

[benny]

What are you talking about? Am I dense today? I don't understand your statement..that poverty is a social rule and it in itself guards against injustice? You can get a hungry man to do anything eventually - like wash your boat in the rain as you observe in perverse glee.

I'm talking obviously about the Christian conception of poverty (the Sermon of the Mount, for instance).

[Oleg Bach]

I'm talking obviously about the Christian conception of poverty (the Sermon of the Mount, for instance).

It does not mean to embrace it and suffer - That sermon also mention those that are poor in spirit - that we should bless even the rich - who are in poverty - some of them - My mother used to say - "he who has no arms and legs is poor - you are not" - This propoganda that poor is noble is NOT a Christian concept - it is a church concept - Christ said - sell your property and put the money in a common purse - and all are welcome - who are in need to take from the fund - BUT the church took the money - 2000 years worth of collections - try to go to a church and when you are in need of say rent - or burial money for your poor mother or bother --- Church is state!

[benny]

that we should bless even the rich

"It is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God."

[Oleg Bach]

"It is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God."

Spoke to an old Coptic Christian - the eye of the needle was a gate in the wall of a town - merchants with camels loaded high with wealth - had to get the camel to kneel on it's knees to pass through the low gate...I believe it meant that you have to submit - and understand that you are not God - to get closer to being holy - rich men can pass into heaven..if they have pride balanced with humility - If they understand their wealth and power mean nothing. These men exist..not all the rich are evil and stupid - some inherit the responsiblity and envy poor men like me.

[benny]

Spoke to an old Coptic Christian - the eye of the needle was a gate in the wall of a town - merchants with camels loaded high with wealth - had to get the camel to kneel on it's knees to pass through the low gate...I believe it meant that you have to submit - and understand that you are not God - to get closer to being holy - rich men can pass into heaven..if they have pride balanced with humility - If they understand their wealth and power mean nothing. These men exist..not all the rich are evil and stupid - some inherit the responsiblity and envy poor men like me.

Very interesting! Coptic Christians should preach more to Protestant Christians (who are ruling international trade).

[jbg]

And btw - the pirates were initially tied to warlords, who sent gunmen to the coast to find fishermen to captain the boats. The warlords put up the startup money and as the pirates started to catch a few Yemini fishing boats, they used the ransom money to buy better equipment to take on larger boats, which netted more money, which eventually allowed them to nab things like GPS devices. Eventually, the pirates grew so strong they could break their warlord connections and operate independently.

That begs the question of why they can't find productive stuff to do.

[benny]

That begs the question of why they can't find productive stuff to do.

Because money laundering is big business jealously guarded by rich countries like Switzerland.