Should the Conservatives Raise the GST

[Progressive Tory]

An article in the Calgary Herald, outlines what most people already know. Cutting the GST was a gimmick that greatly reduced our revenue, while doing nothing to stimulate the economy.

Should the government take it back to 7 or even 8%? There's talk that they may cancel GST rebates, but I don't think that's the way to go. We need to increase consumption tax.

Global economic group urges sales tax increase to make Canada more competitive

"Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government should hike the Goods and Services Tax as part of a broader effort to reform Canada's tax system to make the economy more competitive, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development said Tuesday.

The increased revenue flows would, in turn, allow the government to slash taxes on corporations and individuals — breaks that are more likely to stimulate economic activity.

"This goes exactly towards the direction of raising long-term growth," said Klaus Schmidt-Hebbel, chief economist for the Paris-based think-tank that provides research for Canada and 29 other major industrialized democracies.

Numerous Canadian economists — including former international trade minister David Emerson and one-time Reform MP Herb Grubel — have questioned that decision. Most economists say taxing consumption, rather than taxing corporations or labour through personal or payroll taxes, is less likely to inhibit economic activity

Some of their other suggestions might be a little controversial but deserve discussion like privatizing Canada Post (I'm fine with that - love the idea) but maybe not this one: "The federal government should also scale back access to Employment Insurance for seasonal workers, and eliminate provisions that ease access to EI benefits in high-unemployment areas."

[bjre]

I prefer they cut unnecessary service such as CAS (Children's Aid Society). which cost 1.2 billion only for Ontario every year.

I think the legal system can be cut a lot, every one pay $400 a year for jail and court, why don't just put more on education and make crime happen less.

And pay a percentage of salary with the tax money saved from jail and court cost to let more poor people have chance to work and no time to crime.

Cut a lot of criminal code, abolish unnecessary lawsuits that just for feeding the huge interconnected self serving bureaucracy, cut the crown so that immigrant doctor can work with their profession that they supposed to, so that their work can create wealth and they income can be used for consume so that other worker's product can be sell easier.

Edited March 3, 2009 by bjre

[madmax]

An article in the Calgary Herald, outlines what most people already know. Cutting the GST was a gimmick that greatly reduced our revenue, while doing nothing to stimulate the economy.

"The federal government should also scale back access to Employment Insurance for seasonal workers, and eliminate provisions that ease access to EI benefits in high-unemployment areas."

Trash the whole article, and the GST with it.

We got along fine before without the GST. EI was cut back...... EI was cut back by the Chretian Government and the Revenues used by successive Liberal and Conservative governments for anything BUT the unemployed.

Restoring EI to those people who paid into and cannot collect is a priority. Especially now that hundreds of thousands of people are realizing they have been shafted by their governments once again.

If anything, our governments have too much money and spend WAY too much money on pet projects.

Its funny to read wealthy people going to bat for themselves.

[Alta4ever]

That artical is Euro trash, I wonder why is it we are the strongest economically of all the G7 nations?

Edited March 3, 2009 by Alta4ever

[ToadBrother]

An article in the Calgary Herald, outlines what most people already know. Cutting the GST was a gimmick that greatly reduced our revenue, while doing nothing to stimulate the economy.

Should the government take it back to 7 or even 8%? There's talk that they may cancel GST rebates, but I don't think that's the way to go. We need to increase consumption tax.

The reason for the rebates was because consumption taxes tend to be rather regressive on lower income groups. Cutting the rebates could have a pretty nasty lash back, and I think is pretty much politically impossible.

But I do agree that the GST should be restored to 7%. With all this money going out, and with little of it likely to end up back in the government's coffers any time soon, it's time to turf what was nothing more than a bit of populist pandering in favor of some sound economic thinking.

[ToadBrother]

That artical is Euro trash, I wonder why is it we are the strongest economically of all the G7 nations?

Because our banks weren't as exposed. Other than somewhat more sounding banking policies, that's about it. And "doing better" is an extremely relative term. We're still getting the shit kicked out of us, we just have a few less bruises than some other industrial countries.

[Alta4ever]

, we just have a few less bruises than some other industrial countries.

last i checked this was still doing better.

[ToadBrother]

last i checked this was still doing better.

Yes, well, the guy that only loses one arm in a car crash is, of course, doing better than the guy that loses both, but I'd hardly say that's a ringing endorsement for losing arms.

[Progressive Tory]

Trash the whole article, and the GST with it.

If anything, our governments have too much money and spend WAY too much money on pet projects.

I agree that all governments waste money, but you can't cut all services. If we want to remain competiitve and keep our citizens from revolting when hungry, we need intervention. We also need law and order, firefighters, healthcare, military, etc.

However, we had gotten used to the GST and I haven't heard anyone say they decided to make a large purchase because they would save 2% Companies just found other ways to incorporate those savings into the price.

Raising the GST and lowering personal income tax would put more money in our pockets to buy things, that not only increase gov't revenue with consumption tax, but also create and protect jobs, which repays revenue from income tax.

Lowering taxes and increasing spending, doesn't work. Raise consumption tax, lower income tax and decrease spending. It's worth a shot. But will the Cons do it?

[Progressive Tory]

That artical is Euro trash, I wonder why is it we are the strongest economically of all the G7 nations?

We are the strongest of all G7 nations, as a result of safeguards built into our system years ago. It's not because our economy has been handled better in recent times.

However, claiming to be stronger during an economic crisis, is like saying I'm ugly, but I'm not as ugly as that guy. You're still ugly and we're still in trouble.

Telling someone who has just lost their job, their home or any hope for the future, not to worry because 'we are the strongest economically of all the G7 nations', will probably land you a punch in the nose.

We are in trouble and burying our heads in the sand is not going to change that. I don't think we've bottomed out yet by a longshot so we can't simply close our minds. I would support a GST hike and selling Canada Post. I would not support making it harder for people to get EI.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Progressive Tory

[Progressive Tory]

last i checked this was still doing better.

Last time I checked the unemployment line went around the block and down the street. Do you have a recipe for G7 stew, because many Canadians are wondering what they can put on the table?

Edited March 3, 2009 by Progressive Tory

[Progressive Tory]

The reason for the rebates was because consumption taxes tend to be rather regressive on lower income groups. Cutting the rebates could have a pretty nasty lash back, and I think is pretty much politically impossible.

But I do agree that the GST should be restored to 7%. With all this money going out, and with little of it likely to end up back in the government's coffers any time soon, it's time to turf what was nothing more than a bit of populist pandering in favor of some sound economic thinking.

I agree with the GST rebates. We should never cancel them. I've never gotten one, but know that many people rely on them.

A return to a 7% GST just makes sense. Lowering it was an experiment that failed. It's no time for false pride, and the gov't needs to rethink their strategy. But will they?

[ToadBrother]

I agree with the GST rebates. We should never cancel them. I've never gotten one, but know that many people rely on them.

A return to a 7% GST just makes sense. Lowering it was an experiment that failed. It's no time for false pride, and the gov't needs to rethink their strategy. But will they?

It will be very very difficult for the Tories to do it, and it may be very difficult for anyone else to push it either. Raising any kind of tax during this downturn would be a very hard sell. It was an irresponsible move that pretty much every economist said would do little, and now we may very well be stuck with it, particularly as we have a minority government.

[madmax]

Raising the GST and lowering personal income tax would put more money in our pockets to buy things, that not only increase gov't revenue with consumption tax, but also create and protect jobs, which repays revenue from income tax.

Lowering taxes and increasing spending, doesn't work. Raise consumption tax, lower income tax and decrease spending.

Raising the GST is an effective way of getting more government revenue from poor people.

Lowering income taxes is an effective way of reducing government revenue from wealthy people.

The statement, "also, create and protect jobs", is nonsense.

[madmax]

I agree with the GST rebates. We should never cancel them. I've never gotten one, but know that many people rely on them.

Many people do not receive GST rebates. Many poor people do not receive GST rebates.

[Alta4ever]

Last time I checked the unemployment line went around the block and down the street. Do you have a receipe for G7 stew, because many Canadians are wondering what they can put on the table?

I do, cut out the discresional spending, downsize, move to were their is empolyment. When times were good were these people saving or spending grasshopper?

[Alta4ever]

I agree that all governments waste money, but you can't cut all services. If we want to remain competiitve and keep our citizens from revolting when hungry, we need intervention. We also need law and order, firefighters, healthcare, military, etc.

However, we had gotten used to the GST and I haven't heard anyone say they decided to make a large purchase because they would save 2% Companies just found other ways to incorporate those savings into the price.

Raising the GST and lowering personal income tax would put more money in our pockets to buy things, that not only increase gov't revenue with consumption tax, but also create and protect jobs, which repays revenue from income tax.

Lowering taxes and increasing spending, doesn't work. Raise consumption tax, lower income tax and decrease spending. It's worth a shot. But will the Cons do it?

It sure makes a difference when you buy a house.

[fellowtraveller]

There is no GST payable on the sale of a house, except on brand new homes, where it is typically included in the stated price, not added as it is on retail stuff.

The first thing we should do is to cancel the poltical subsidy to all parties, easy pickings that we can all agree upon.

[madmax]

Last time I checked the unemployment line went around the block and down the street. Do you have a receipe for G7 stew, because many Canadians are wondering what they can put on the table?

Kingston has one of the lowest unemployment rate in Ontario. I doubt you checked an EI line at all. Unemployment is handled online, and if there is the volumes that you speak of, it is usually from the closure of a facility with 80 or more people. They do not line up for EI around the block and down the street. I have travelled to areas where 3,000 people have lost their jobs and DO NOT SEE THIS!!! Line ups yes. What you described no and certainly NOT in Kingston.

However, the wait for training assistance, assessments, etc, are much longer in regions hard hit by permanent job loss. These are done by appointment and can be from 2 to 4 weeks of backlog. You will not be on the streets waiting.

[Progressive Tory]

Raising the GST is an effective way of getting more government revenue from poor people.

Lowering income taxes is an effective way of reducing government revenue from wealthy people.

The statement, "also, create and protect jobs", is nonsense.

So the fact that people would have more money in their pockets to buy things, is a bad thing? I'd rather pay a tax on something I get to keep then pay a tax the government gets to keep, and I have nothing to show for it.

Lowering the GST didn't make the poor less poor and the really rich don't pay taxes anyway because they can afford loopholes. It's the average taxpayer who would benefit and create a trickle down effect.

[jdobbin]

We got along fine before without the GST.

Yes, we had the MST.

[Progressive Tory]

It sure makes a difference when you buy a house.

When did you ever pay GST on a house? It's not added to the sale price, even on new homes, where it's built in. Car prices went up anyway so no savings there.

[Progressive Tory]

Yes, we had the MST.

There was a built in federal tax of 11% on most goods. The GST replaced that and was standardized to include tax on services.

[Progressive Tory]

I do, cut out the discresional spending, downsize, move to were their is empolyment. When times were good were these people saving or spending grasshopper?

I'm a saver but where do you suggest Canadians go to find a place where there's more employment? Alberta's no longer an option. Sask. will be for awhile but they can't employ the entire country's unemployed.

For many people moving is not an option, especially when there are few guarantees.

[Progressive Tory]

Kingston has one of the lowest unemployment rate in Ontario. I doubt you checked an EI line at all. Unemployment is handled online, and if there is the volumes that you speak of, it is usually from the closure of a facility with 80 or more people.

I was speaking figuratively, across the country. However, there are still quite a few people who use the local office when they don't have a computer at home. When my husband went in to apply for his Canada Pension (in the same building), there was quite a crowd. Many were having trouble using the system and all shared the same look of desperation.

My point is that these are hardtimes and high unemployment rates are affecting everyone. Those who have jobs, wonder for how long, and those who don't are seeing few options.

G7 is not part of their vernacular. It gives little comfort to those with little hope.