CAS is more harmful to children than physical discipline by parents

[bjre]

You've said that the rate of death of children in care is high, but have you compared that rate of death to the rate of death of abused children who are not discovered by the system?

How you can justify a crime with another crime? Do you want to tell me if there are murders exist, you kill others will be OK?

[bjre]

Also, I've read through your other posts, bjre, and of course there is a need to investigate the allegations being made. If funds are being misspent, I expect there will be changes made, and hopefully better safeguards put into place. But that doesn't mean we get rid of the system altogether. Children are being abused, and as a society we can't just turn our back on them.

If a medicine found makes one patient death out of every 300 and cause 36% patient who use it mental illness, do you think this medicine can still be used?

In China, resently baby milk scandal has led to the deaths of six babie, two man sentenced to death, the former boss of Sanlu, Tian Wenhua, 66, was given a life sentence while three more of her colleagues were jailed from between five to 15 years.

Now kids "protected" by CAS dies every year, and only 24% graduated from high school and 36% end up in correction system, such an orinization can sell their concept?

Now you already know this, you still want others use it?

If you have a baby and you know a milk may cause him death, are you still going to feed him with the milk and say, "hopefully, better safeguards will make it not happen on my baby"?

Edited March 1, 2009 by bjre

[Melanie_]

If a medicine found makes one patient death out of every 300 and cause 36% patient who use it mental illness, do you think this medicine can still be used?

In China, resently baby milk scandal has led to the deaths of six babie, two man sentenced to death, the former boss of Sanlu, Tian Wenhua, 66, was given a life sentence while three more of her colleagues were jailed from between five to 15 years.

Now kids "protected" by CAS dies every year, and only 24% graduated from high school and 36% end up in correction system, such an orinization can sell their concept?

Now you already know this, you still want others use it?

If you have a baby and you know a milk may cause him death, are you still going to feed him with the milk and say, "hopefully, better safeguards will make it not happen on my baby"?

You’re saying that the CAS involvement is why these kids aren’t graduating from high school? It’s more likely they aren’t graduating because of the reasons they ended up involved with CAS in the first place - they’ve been abused. CAS isn't creating mental illness in that 36% you are quoting; CAS naturally deals with clientele who have a higher incidence of mental illness, probably because of the trauma they've suffered at the hands of abusive parents. CAS isn’t the cause of the problem; you’re making a connection based on false premises.

[bjre]

You’re saying that the CAS involvement is why these kids aren’t graduating from high school? It’s more likely they aren’t graduating because of the reasons they ended up involved with CAS in the first place - they’ve been abused. CAS isn't creating mental illness in that 36% you are quoting; CAS naturally deals with clientele who have a higher incidence of mental illness, probably because of the trauma they've suffered at the hands of abusive parents. CAS isn’t the cause of the problem; you’re making a connection based on false premises.

How can you prove your statement has some base?

Do you have any evidence?

After all, the kids are like that in care of CAS.

There can be 3 possiblities:

1. CAS make them like that.

2. CAS did not change any thing.

3. CAS made some improvement.

I believe possibility 1 is the most likely answer.

If it is possibility 3, obvious CAS did not change a lot because the situation is still too bad. so why we need waste tax payer's money on this useless service?

Lets see the following links, that might give an answer why child in care of CAS has more chance to suffer a mental illness and why they are more likely to commit suicide:

http://www.cbc.ca/national/news/normal/

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...n2.4d88f86.html

Edited March 1, 2009 by bjre

[bjre]

Career criminal claims his life of crime began with the Chatham, Ontario CAS

Former CAS Crown Ward vows to go straight after a lifetime of criminal activity

http://canadacourtwatch.com/CAS%20Files/20...tario%20CAS.pdf

By Mike March - Monday, July 1, 2008.

Placing children into the care of the Children’s Aid Society is one way of ensuring that those in the legal and law enforcement industries will be ensured an ongoing supply of criminals to keep their systems running at full tilt.

A recent court case in London, Ontario involving former CAS Crown Ward, Mervyn Breaton, supports what a recent study out of British Columbia has shown – that kids placed in foster care are more likely to be involved in a life of crime than getting a proper education.

The 87 year-old Breaton appeared before Justice Ross Webster in London, Ontario on charges relating to drugs and breach of probation.

Breaton said his history of being involved in crime began after he was placed into the care of Children’s Aid Society in Chatham as a child.

Braeton said that since the time he was placed in the care of the CAS that crime and jails is all that he has ever known.

"They threw me into Children's Aid and from then on it was one jail to another," he said.

In spite of Braeton’s involvement with CAS years ago, evidence would seem to indicate that many of the influences at CAS facilities which got him into a life of crime in the first place are still present and that not much at the CAS has improved over the years.

Even today, children living in group homes and foster homes in Ontario are being exposed to various forms of abuse and neglect with Ontario’s various CAS agencies fighting to keep Ontario’s Ombudsman, Andre Marin from having oversight over their agencies.

In the past year alone, Court Watch has interviewed kids in care who have reported a wide range of activities inside CAS facilities including beatings, assaults, drug use, sexual abuse and neglect while in the care of Ontario’s CAS child protection system.

Many of these children report that CAS workers and police turn a blind eye to abuses they suffer while in care.

Some girls become pregnant while in care of CAS as a result of the lax care and supervision found in many CAS facilities.

Some CAS workers have been caught trying to cover-up abuse of children in their care in order to cover up incompetence by their own workers.

Overall, Breaton has spent more of his life inside a jail than outside and at the peak of his career he spend 19 years of his life at the world famous Alcatraz prison located in San Francisco Bay.

While in Alcatraz, he looked after the infamous “Bird Man of Alcatraz” who was known in real life as Robert Stroud.

His record includes a string of car thefts, weapons and drug convictions and vehicular manslaughter.

He was an expert at escaping custody and on one of his escapades managed to escape from Collins Bay penitentiary in Kingston, Ontario in a daring over-the-wall flight to freedom.

"The next day I was in Toronto robbing banks," he said.

Justice Webster gave the 87 year-old former CAS ward a hefty $5,000 fine.

The fine is money which will not likely be put to good use as it will be given back to the Province of Ontario where from there some of it will be used to fund CAS agencies in their work to place yet more kids into CAS care.

After pleading guilty in court, Mervyn says, he really, really means it this time.

"I'm getting too old for this stuff," he said.

One can only imagine what his life would be like today if he had had not been thrown into the hands of the CAS where he was likely given his first taste of crime.

All this destruction of children by the CAS is funded by the taxpayers of the Province of Ontario of course.

Mike March is a freelance writer who writes on issues relating to the justice system in Canada. He may be reached at [email protected]

Edited March 1, 2009 by bjre

[Oleg Bach]

The only people that love their children are the parents. No semi-privatized "care" of children will ever compare to real care which is love --- The main problem with these industries or agents who sometimes ruthlessly snatch up kids - is the fact that they are such huge operations - they NEED clients desperately to keep the lucrative trade in small humans going. I have seen where children are locked in rooms and fed peanut butter while the "foster home" collects enough money for their "care" to feed twenty kids..THEN as I mentioned prior ---- when you have an arrangement between a Canadian federally sanctioned protection society - that has a deal cut with foster care operators that are based in America - then it is clearly the mini-slave trade going on .

[Oleg Bach]

The only people that love their children are the parents. No semi-privatized "care" of children will ever compare to real care which is love --- The main problem with these industries or agents who sometimes ruthlessly snatch up kids - is the fact that they are such huge operations - they NEED clients desperately to keep the lucrative trade in small humans going. I have seen where children are locked in rooms and fed peanut butter while the "foster home" collects enough money for their "care" to feed twenty kids..THEN as I mentioned prior ---- when you have an arrangement between a Canadian federally sanctioned protection society - that has a deal cut with foster care operators that are based in America - then it is clearly the mini-slave trade going on .

Sup: There is no need to hit your children..the most one should do is perhaps show the child you are stronger by taking their arm and letting them know that you will not let them run out into the road way - The problem you have when you strike a child is that you can extinguish the love that the child has for the parents ..once that is gone ------------------------------your finished and there will never be trust and communication....frankly any striking of any other human being should be a no no ---- and I am not liberal.

[WIP]

If a medicine found makes one patient death out of every 300 and cause 36% patient who use it mental illness, do you think this medicine can still be used?.............Now kids "protected" by CAS dies every year, and only 24% graduated from high school and 36% end up in correction system, such an orinization can sell their concept?

This is a very poor analogy. It's a good thing you're not in charge of scientific testing, since you have offered no insight into the condition of these children when they were put under foster-care in the first place.

Let me save you some of the trouble, since my eldest son works as a counselor/attendant at a group home for teenage boys, and many of them aren't wanted by their birth parents and were rejected by foster parents because they may have been prone to violent behaviour and/or were mentally ill. Lost in your attack on the CAS, is the smear job you are doing on foster parents, who take unwanted children into their homes and receive minimal compensation for their troubles. Just citing cases where kids in foster care were abused does a disservice to all of those who do what is an otherwise almost thankless volunteer job that nobody else wants.

Anyway, the boys who end up at the group home where my son works are chronic cases already, that have to be watched almost 24/7, and I suspect that's why many group home managers may be tempted to load them up on ritalin or other drugs to keep them sedated and easier to manage. That's not saying it's a good thing, but if you want optimal care for teenagers that are nearing adulthood, it's going to cost money, and social service budgets are the first ones to be squeezed by politicians looking to cut budgets.

Anyway, I haven't noticed anywhere in your anti-CAS comments where you offer your solution to the problem, other than leave them with the parents to be murdered. What is your solution?

[Oleg Bach]

This is a very poor analogy. It's a good thing you're not in charge of scientific testing, since you have offered no insight into the condition of these children when they were put under foster-care in the first place.

Let me save you some of the trouble, since my eldest son works as a counselor/attendant at a group home for teenage boys, and many of them aren't wanted by their birth parents and were rejected by foster parents because they may have been prone to violent behaviour and/or were mentally ill. Lost in your attack on the CAS, is the smear job you are doing on foster parents, who take unwanted children into their homes and receive minimal compensation for their troubles. Just citing cases where kids in foster care were abused does a disservice to all of those who do what is an otherwise almost thankless volunteer job that nobody else wants.

Anyway, the boys who end up at the group home where my son works are chronic cases already, that have to be watched almost 24/7, and I suspect that's why many group home managers may be tempted to load them up on ritalin or other drugs to keep them sedated and easier to manage. That's not saying it's a good thing, but if you want optimal care for teenagers that are nearing adulthood, it's going to cost money, and social service budgets are the first ones to be squeezed by politicians looking to cut budgets.

Anyway, I haven't noticed anywhere in your anti-CAS comments where you offer your solution to the problem, other than leave them with the parents to be murdered. What is your solution?

First - Ritalin is a stimulant - most imagine it as a valium like compound. The way it works - much like the after effects of cocaine - exhaustion...It is the exhaustion that seems to give the impression of sedation. One of my former best friends that I knew for over 20 years was a social worker..and ran group homes for the types of kids you mention .... He loved having authority over the down trodden and poor - and he was very much against parents re-entering the lives of their lost kids...because it did not suit his agenda...an agenda spawned by a second rate socialist community colleage education. This guy was quietly a druggy and a drunk and allowed physical contact with himself and his wards which was boardering on the sexual - he was a jerk! The thing that has to be addressed here is the fact that all of these facilities have become a thriving buisness for a certain class of people. CAS - Catholic Childrens Aid Society - and the Jewish Family And Child Services especally - are research faclities connected to big buisness and some of the universities --- I have seen them put parents and children in rooms with one way mirrors like lab rats...it was obvious they were abusing fathers - mothers and children...They need reformation and should function under the Family Service Act - that is supposed protect the whole family - not just father and child - or mother and child - but father mother and children. They have lost sight of this purpose - to sustain the family and not further destroy it - but - a lot of the workers are socialist...THAT'S A PROBLEM.

[WIP]

Career criminal claims his life of crime began with the Chatham, Ontario CAS

Former CAS Crown Ward vows to go straight after a lifetime of criminal activity

Was that a typo by the guy doing the children's aid hatchet job, or was "87 years old" his actual age? Because, if that's accurate, this senior citizen offender grew up at a time when child protective services barely existed, and were much different than today.

[Oleg Bach]

Was that a typo by the guy doing the children's aid hatchet job, or was "87 years old" his actual age? Because, if that's accurate, this senior citizen offender grew up at a time when child protective services barely existed, and were much different than today.

CAS workers might simply take the child because the just don't like the parent or parents. They have no respect for different cultures..and they assume that all poor people are stupid. They asssume that the state and themselves with all of their theoretical non-sense can create a better world if they guide them...All adults that I have met that were ever wards of the state carry tremendous bitterness for the CAS...which had then and now feminist eccetric extremists running the show. They are just a barbaric as the old orphanage system of the by gone era - there are just better spoken and conspiratorally orgainized - for god's sake - I have seen them generate false documentations - lie and undermine families - devide them...eg..as follows.

Sitting in a lobby of a very upscale facility...I watched a family waiting to be helped by one of the seniour staff...He walks out and says ---- "I am going to take you all one at a time and interview you" - so he picks at the little tribe one by one...seperates the family unit - not once did he come in and gather them up as a unit - they are anti-family - If you are strong and have lawyers - they do not go near you - IF you appear to be weak and defenceless - they will eat the family alive - I spoke to one girl who just turned 18 - she had been in state care since being a little girl. Here is what she said of the experience..."The ruined my fathers life - destroyed him emotionally and finacially - I hate what they did to us" - sounds like usery to me!

[Melanie_]

How can you prove your statement has some base?

Do you have any evidence?

~snip~

http://www.cbc.ca/national/news/normal/

You've answered some of your questions yourself, with the links you provided. I've just kept the one from the CBC, as it seems like the most reliable evidence. Lets keep in mind that this kid suffered a great deal at the hands of many different people, all of whom he had a right to expect protection from. I don't want to minimize his trauma in any way, and I agree with you that someone failed him and should be held accountable.

From your link....

But his young parents struggle with a variety of mental health problems; problems they see reflected in their son … complaining he's aggressive and inattentive.

Three months shy of his sixth birthday, J's pediatrician diagnosed Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder or ADHD. The doctor prescribes the stimulant Ritalin.

But his parents aren't satisfied with the diagnosis. Over the next two years, they take the boy to several psychiatrists: one adds Tourette Syndrome, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Oppositional Defiant Disorder to the boy's expanding diagnoses.

Another doctor suspects the boy has a form of autism called Aspergers.

Yet another adds bipolar disorder, or manic depression, to the list.

This kid obviously had some challenges long before CAS was involved; there were medical professionals lined up to identify one syndrome after another.

I had to laugh at the next post you made, with an 87 year old man talking about how his life of crime is all the fault of CAS. Really? That sounds like someone trying to shift the blame away from himself and onto any handy scapegoat he can find. He's responsible for the choices he made as an adult, but its so much more convenient to point the finger elsewhere.

So, what is your solution, as WIP has asked? You think children should be left in homes where they are being physically, emotionally and sexually abused? There should be no protection offered to them from society at large? You don't want CAS to get involved with families, so that must mean you think abused children should just suffer through whatever hell their parents can dream up, hoping they survive to get out on their own someday.

[bjre]

You've answered some of your questions yourself, with the links you provided. I've just kept the one from the CBC, as it seems like the most reliable evidence. Lets keep in mind that this kid suffered a great deal at the hands of many different people, all of whom he had a right to expect protection from. I don't want to minimize his trauma in any way, and I agree with you that someone failed him and should be held accountable.

This kid obviously had some challenges long before CAS was involved; there were medical professionals lined up to identify one syndrome after another.

Yes the kid has problem, the point is, CAS make it worse. That's the evil CAS is. Actually, I think CAS don't care the health of the kid at all, they care only money from taxpayers, $87 a day for a kid "in care".

From the like: http://www.cbc.ca/national/news/normal/

In seizing J, the Children's Aid Society should be taking the boy out of a bad situation and putting him into a better one. But his 15-month stay at the group home only makes things worse.

As his legal guardian, J's CAS case worker has signed a medical consent form allowing the psychiatrist to increase the boy's medication.

With continued reports of J acting out, the doctor increases the boy's medications six times in less than a year.

The grandparents tell the CAS they want the pills to stop. But they have no legal rights.

The Children's Aid Society won't even tell them what the pills are. So his grandmother decides to find out:

A pharmacist checked the pills and told her that he was on Aeroquel, an anti-psychotic drug used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder in adults. It also acts as a sedative. A 25 mg dose can knock out some grownups. Seroquel has not been proven safe or effective in children.

McKay voices her alarm in her final report to the Durham Children's Aid Society:

"I am quite concerned that J is receiving dangerously high levels of medication and that this regime has no actual treatment value but is primarily, if not wholly, designed to suppress symptoms."

They find Dr. Wendy Roberts at the Hospital for Sick Children. She is a pediatrician who helps untangle multiple diagnoses in kids.

When she meets the nine year old, he's consuming a combination of:

* 50 mg of Ritalin

* 500 mg of Divalproex

* 500 mg of Seroquel.

Every day.

Dr. Wendy Roberts. (CBC)

"On the whole, all the classes of drugs were at the higher level of what you would typically expect to be seen used in children," Roberts says.

That was what CAS did, that is why some people suspect the CAS has connection with medicine industry that is revealed in the other 2 likes (

, http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...n2.4d88f86.html)

[bjre]

Anyway, I haven't noticed anywhere in your anti-CAS comments where you offer your solution to the problem, other than leave them with the parents to be murdered. What is your solution?

I did it in another thread: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....&pid=392043

I don't know enough about CAS to know. It may be with CAS that the execution is poor, however the intent is nobel. Are you against protecting the rights of children from parents who abuse those rights?

If not, please explain how you intend to protect those kids if you cut or eliminate CAS.

1. I think most parent that said to be abusive loves their kids. Some just for education, others may just happen to not control themselves very well just like drive after drinking. Those are simply accidents. They are not intentionally abuse their kids.

However, once kids are put into "in care" system, they become really under an environment that near the worst small part of the society that full of real abuse, ignorance, lies, criminal, violence, drugs. That will definitely change the whole life of the kids.

We need to study.

We already have the statistics said only 24% kids under such system can graduate from high school.

Did anyone do some study on if a group of kids that are reported abused, after that, CAS and police and the court system do nothing, how many can graduated from high school even college, how many be killed, how many suicide? How many becomes criminals. Although these is no statistics now, I think we can compare this with a country that has no so strick CAS, such as Japan, Korea, or others to see if only 24% graduated. I believe they will have a much better result.

There is a theory, some doctors say the best way to recovery from a disease is by one's own immunization system, so if we can live without medicine, we'd better do that and try to recover with better living habit, better food, and others. So I think maybe the best way is just let it be.

It is better for a "mature" society make decision or legislation based on study with scientific methods such as statistics, instead of just by opinion after emotionally publish one or two cases on the media.

2. For crime, we have police, I think they can handle.

3. If you think something must be done, I think maybe police can send them a warning and keep a record that if they will be found the second time, they will be charged.

4. For the kids really need foster care, I believe this is better be handled by a government department that their salary has nothing to do with the number of the kids "in care", this would avoid any business organization making profit on children tears.

In any case my point has got nothing to do with CAS. If you restricted the opportunity to parent to those who are qualified, then perhaps you would have less need for CAS.

With the large budge saved from CAS (In Ontario 1.2billion a year), children care system can use it to help poor kids.

For the kids living in poverty, when CAS take "in care", they ask for $87 a day from tax payers, that money is far more than enough for help kids living with their parents and improve the living condition.

[bjre]

I had to laugh at the next post you made, with an 87 year old man talking about how his life of crime is all the fault of CAS. Really? That sounds like someone trying to shift the blame away from himself and onto any handy scapegoat he can find. He's responsible for the choices he made as an adult, but its so much more convenient to point the finger elsewhere.

When he was at kid age that need parental guide and education, CAS took him away from the love and discipline from his parents. I never heard of CAS care of children's education, CAS just take the kids away and throw it to anywhere and ask government for money. That is the reason kid "protected" by CAS has high death rate, and low high-school graduate rate. CAS victimize kids everyday. (http://rally4accountability.webs.com/Ottaw...519207_7635.jpg, http://rally4accountability.webs.com/Ottaw...3519218_969.jpg, http://rally4accountability.webs.com/Ottaw...519203_6457.jpg )

And, did you even notice there is the following text in the artical? ( http://canadacourtwatch.com/CAS%20Files/20...tario%20CAS.pdf )

Even today, children living in group homes and foster homes in Ontario are being exposed to various forms of abuse and neglect with Ontario’s various CAS agencies fighting to keep Ontario’s Ombudsman, Andre Marin from having oversight over their agencies.

In the past year alone, Court Watch has interviewed kids in care who have reported a wide range of activities inside CAS facilities including beatings, assaults, drug use, sexual abuse and neglect while in the care of Ontario’s CAS child protection system.

Many of these children report that CAS workers and police turn a blind eye to abuses they suffer while in care.

Some girls become pregnant while in care of CAS as a result of the lax care and supervision found in many CAS facilities.

Some CAS workers have been caught trying to cover-up abuse of children in their care in order to cover up incompetence by their own workers.

[bjre]

I didn't get, that unless they could round up more kids there would be layoffs. If I understand the article correctly, the problem is the gov't is not poviding enough funds per child, resulting in a deficit. I don't think they are working on a quota system.

I know there are a lot of problems with CAS and funding has not kept pace with a seemingly more liberal criteria for removing children from their families. The system has not been able to keep up.

Again, I think they should start to focus on kinship fostering. I have been working with this group for seven years, and most families say they would take on the responsibility for half what we are paying strangers, with a little support. Right now they are offered 1/5 with no support. Most just can't afford it and it's breaking their hearts.

We are actively lobbying for this and had a meeting with our MPP John Gerretson last week.

However, your complaint seems to be the criteria for removing children from their homes.

As you can read from post #14, when CAS have money, it use it in hired public relations firm to lie the the public that they help kids， buy Luxury vehicles, Personal trips around the world, all funded by taxpayer's money.

No money go to CAS has anything to do with education of kids, all we can see is CAS sign to allow doctor use more drugs to kids. I don't know liberal or conservative or NDP, the kids are human being, they should have human rights, they deserve love from the parents and at least normal education.

For CAS "in care" kids, government give money to CAS and CAS give less money to kids, even in the time CAS misspent large sum of money, CAS still cry for short of money for kids.

Actually, I prefer CAS misspent money in luxury vehicles or any other of luxury usage, in this way less money will be used to victimize more kids.

[bjre]

The second example you gave, the video of "Justice Jack", does nothing to help your argument at all. Did you watch that video? Never once does he deny abusing his children. He just talks about the flaws in the court system, and admits to tampering with evidence. Do you have any actual information about what he is alleged to have done, or what evidence there was against him? How do you know his children aren't better off somewhere else? Some of the allegations involved a child having scars from a shotgun blast, and another child, 4 years old, having a sexual encounter with a banana. He doesn't deny either of these things, he just talks about how the court transcripts have errors in recording the testimony.

Looks as if you are just another story-make-up expert and misleading expert. I am not sure what kind of connection between you and CAS. Your behavior is just like a CAS case worker. The original is here (again) http://vimeo.com/766883?pg=embed&sec=766883

Edited March 3, 2009 by bjre

[Oleg Bach]

When he was at kid age that need parental guide and education, CAS took him away from the love and discipline from his parents. I never heard of CAS care of children's education, CAS just take the kids away and throw it to anywhere and ask government for money. That is the reason kid "protected" by CAS has high death rate, and low high-school graduate rate. CAS victimize kids everyday. (http://rally4accountability.webs.com/Ottaw...519207_7635.jpg, http://rally4accountability.webs.com/Ottaw...3519218_969.jpg, http://rally4accountability.webs.com/Ottaw...519203_6457.jpg )

And, did you even notice there is the following text in the artical? ( http://canadacourtwatch.com/CAS%20Files/20...tario%20CAS.pdf )

It took my brother and I about 7 solid months to perform the rescue of two infant boys from the clutches of this capitalist soviet style prison system for children. One day I saw the older boy and noticed that he was listless and his skin was yellowing...immediately I knew that jaundice was probably caused by the liver being toxic with drugs - sure enough he was needlessley being drugged..we put a stop to that - another issue was when we found out that the youger child had a severe burn on his hand caused supposedly by him grabbing a curling iron. Then we find out that the kids had been passed off for a fifth time to a new foster home...a crazy Jamacian lady that was also an extremist Jehovah's Witness - she was responsble for the burn -- the agents did not transport the child to a hospital - but to a "superivised visit - where the father insisted that the child get medical care --

Also: Both boys were born of a French Canadian Catholic mother - and a orthodox Christian father - the boys in ten minutes during a hearing in a secularist civil court were instantly converted to Judaism to please the keeper --- and the mother who insisted she was Jewish because she had once been married to one...when asked why this woman (who at one time suffered a head injury as a child - and had difficulty with short term memory..she was not capabale of conducting her own affairs) Why she appoached a Jewish CAS - she glibly anwered - "because the Jews have more money" ... The mother was not religious and had made contact with them because she had heard her former husband who is a Jew had come into a lot of money - so she ran a ruse and attempted to dump the second set of kids and return to her former life.

The father of the two infant boys was refered to in documents as a "nominal" Christain....and some how after having mantained Christianity in the family for 1000 years - suddenly a CAS lawyer has them converted to Judaism -- which was to irritate the father who they assumed was an anti-semite...which was untrue...The plot thinkens - the kids after breaking a window were locked in the room with the smashed window and forced to wander about on a floor covered in broken glass..The childrens mother was so stressed when she figured out she had lost control of the ruse and that the CAS was not her friend - lost over 30 pounds - the children also lost weight and were continually subjected to more experimentation and more drugs.

We took the matter eventually to the Supreme Court of Canada where I presented the Chief Justice with three sworn affidavits...stating that all persons mentioned in the first proceedings were not present and were unaware of the hearing - plus they did not give CONSENT.

The law suit was a failure do to the fact that all documents in the power and control of the defendant were provided - EXCEPT for one - the original proceedings...so their lawyer used this lost and hidden endorsement in the last few minutes of the original trial..we did not have a clue what she handed up to the judge...once we found out we ordered with great difficulty - the original transcript of the FIRST hearing...There it stated clearly that we were present in the court and were granting consent to the involvement of these agents...the date was the 22nd - our first date was the 27th...a fraud had been committed within the court - our lawyer conspired with the CAS - The CAS lawyers partook in the fraud...and they in fact held the children illegally without a protection order for 7 months.

The Supreme Court after belatedly learning that their counter parts in the lower courts had defrauded my brother of his children and the people of Ontario...simply turned an embarassed blind eye to the matter and had some fancey law firm in Ottawa spin a story for them....The children had been diagnosed with every possible mental disorder by the CSA --- at present the family is happy and thriving - both boys are billiant students and are happy - and have no disorders.... I lost total respect for the legal profession - for the courts - for all protection agences - and for the Supreme Court Of Canada - My brother was building a fine home for his family at the time - He lost everything and now lives in a rental property and will never recover.

I watch over 15 judges operate - and at least the same amount of lawyers - not once did I see a sincere or honest process taking place - It was one coverup after another ...It was a disgrace ---BUT - it must have cost them over 600 thousand dollars in defense....I did not win - but I bleed them to that point that they fired a few lawyers - a few social workers and re-arranged their board of directors -----as a Christian I stood by one rule - the truth...and by the passage /// "if you harm one of these little ones you will wish you were never born and will have a mill stone tied to your neck and be tossed into the sea....The CAS - dares not seek revenge or go near my brother and family --- they attack the helpless and naive...if you have teeth - they leave you alone...It was five years of my life wasted - but my parents did not escape the Nazis and Communists to come to Canada to have their grand children abused and stolen by some Troskyite lunitics ---- what a waste of time ---- would I do it again? YES _ I saved the lives of two fine boys who will be two fine men in time!

[bjre]

It took my brother and I about 7 solid months to perform the rescue of two infant boys from the clutches of this capitalist soviet style prison system for children. One day I saw the older boy and noticed that he was listless and his skin was yellowing...immediately I knew that jaundice was probably caused by the liver being toxic with drugs - sure enough he was needlessley being drugged..we put a stop to that - another issue was when we found out that the youger child had a severe burn on his hand caused supposedly by him grabbing a curling iron. Then we find out that the kids had been passed off for a fifth time to a new foster home...a crazy Jamacian lady that was also an extremist Jehovah's Witness - she was responsble for the burn -- the agents did not transport the child to a hospital - but to a "superivised visit - where the father insisted that the child get medical care --

Also: Both boys were born of a French Canadian Catholic mother - and a orthodox Christian father - the boys in ten minutes during a hearing in a secularist civil court were instantly converted to Judaism to please the keeper --- and the mother who insisted she was Jewish because she had once been married to one...when asked why this woman (who at one time suffered a head injury as a child - and had difficulty with short term memory..she was not capabale of conducting her own affairs) Why she appoached a Jewish CAS - she glibly anwered - "because the Jews have more money" ... The mother was not religious and had made contact with them because she had heard her former husband who is a Jew had come into a lot of money - so she ran a ruse and attempted to dump the second set of kids and return to her former life.

The father of the two infant boys was refered to in documents as a "nominal" Christain....and some how after having mantained Christianity in the family for 1000 years - suddenly a CAS lawyer has them converted to Judaism -- which was to irritate the father who they assumed was an anti-semite...which was untrue...The plot thinkens - the kids after breaking a window were locked in the room with the smashed window and forced to wander about on a floor covered in broken glass..The childrens mother was so stressed when she figured out she had lost control of the ruse and that the CAS was not her friend - lost over 30 pounds - the children also lost weight and were continually subjected to more experimentation and more drugs.

We took the matter eventually to the Supreme Court of Canada where I presented the Chief Justice with three sworn affidavits...stating that all persons mentioned in the first proceedings were not present and were unaware of the hearing - plus they did not give CONSENT.

The law suit was a failure do to the fact that all documents in the power and control of the defendant were provided - EXCEPT for one - the original proceedings...so their lawyer used this lost and hidden endorsement in the last few minutes of the original trial..we did not have a clue what she handed up to the judge...once we found out we ordered with great difficulty - the original transcript of the FIRST hearing...There it stated clearly that we were present in the court and were granting consent to the involvement of these agents...the date was the 22nd - our first date was the 27th...a fraud had been committed within the court - our lawyer conspired with the CAS - The CAS lawyers partook in the fraud...and they in fact held the children illegally without a protection order for 7 months.

The Supreme Court after belatedly learning that their counter parts in the lower courts had defrauded my brother of his children and the people of Ontario...simply turned an embarassed blind eye to the matter and had some fancey law firm in Ottawa spin a story for them....The children had been diagnosed with every possible mental disorder by the CAS --- at present the family is happy and thriving - both boys are billiant students and are happy - and have no disorders.... I lost total respect for the legal profession - for the courts - for all protection agences - and for the Supreme Court Of Canada - My brother was building a fine home for his family at the time - He lost everything and now lives in a rental property and will never recover.

I watch over 15 judges operate - and at least the same amount of lawyers - not once did I see a sincere or honest process taking place - It was one coverup after another ...It was a disgrace ---BUT - it must have cost them over 600 thousand dollars in defense....I did not win - but I bleed them to that point that they fired a few lawyers - a few social workers and re-arranged their board of directors -----as a Christian I stood by one rule - the truth...and by the passage /// "if you harm one of these little ones you will wish you were never born and will have a mill stone tied to your neck and be tossed into the sea....The CAS - dares not seek revenge or go near my brother and family --- they attack the helpless and naive...if you have teeth - they leave you alone...It was five years of my life wasted - but my parents did not escape the Nazis and Communists to come to Canada to have their grand children abused and stolen by some Troskyite lunitics ---- what a waste of time ---- would I do it again? YES _ I saved the lives of two fine boys who will be two fine men in time!

Thank you. You did it right. You are respectable.

[Oleg Bach]

Thank you. You did it right. You are respectable.

Don't know if you are being cynical - frankly my younger brother is not that sophisticated nor is his wife - they are both hard working and very family orientated - she basically had a break down of sorts ..and in effect the feminist extremist for all intent and purpose kidnapped her...so she was rescued also -- It was very embarassing to have to deal with these people - our family had been in the area for over 50 years and were respected - builders - artists and musicians --- my sister assisted corporations and their developement of the area also - my father was supposedly involved in an attempt on Hitlers life - it was hurtful that these Jews were so thankless - that the grandfather of these boys probably saved thousands of Jewish lives --- and the fact that they painted us as anti-semites - which made it impossible to find a good lawyer...we did have one sent to us pro bono - a little man from the Jewish community - we found out that he actuall represented the defendant...He wanted to cut a deal - that my brother would recieve a letter of apology - but not the damage money....I learned a lot about the system..and what I saw was a huge interconnected self serving bureacracy..where people were being controlled though what they loved most - THEIR CHILDREN....Would I do it again? Never! It burned me out - to take on this system and all of their lawyers was an awesome task and I am still recovering.

[Oleg Bach]

Thank you. You did it right. You are respectable.

Don't know if you are being cynical - frankly my younger brother is not that sophisticated nor is his wife - they are both hard working and very family orientated - she basically had a break down of sorts ..and in effect the feminist extremist for all intent and purpose kidnapped her...so she was rescued also -- It was very embarassing to have to deal with these people - our family had been in the area for over 50 years and were respected - builders - artists and musicians --- my sister assisted corporations and their developement of the area also - my father was supposedly involved in an attempt on Hitlers life - it was hurtful that these Jews were so thankless - that the grandfather of these boys probably saved thousands of Jewish lives --- and the fact that they painted us as anti-semites - which made it impossible to find a good lawyer...we did have one sent to us pro bono ..

- An angry little man from the Jewish community - we found out that he actually represented the defendant...He wanted to cut a deal - that my brother would recieve a letter of apology - but not the damage money....I learned a lot about the system..and what I saw was a huge interconnected self serving bureacracy..where people were being controlled though what they loved most - THEIR CHILDREN....Would I do it again? Never! It burned me out - to take on this system and all of their lawyers was an awesome task and I am still recovering.

For someone with no high school education, I did well and gained the respect of most of the lawyers.. "the private litigant is feared and loathed" - Thank God I am a crafty writer and depended on logic and the old Christian doctrine of TRUTH... The more I provoked them the more they lied...and yes I showed no mercey...In time judges were informally gagging me - I saw quite a few lose their tempers and embarass themselves - During one hearing they brought in 14 social workers to witness against one father - my brother - all of them had affidavits that they diligently studied because they were not written by the witnesses.

There was one social worker who was quite crazey - as they started to lose - she intentionally left a book outsid the court entitled "Killing Time" - she was never there to read it ---- THEN to top it off she placed a pair of surgical gloves on top of the book - the gloves looked as if they were drenched in blood --- this is true..I took this as a threat...she was removed and no one wanted to talk about her or where she had been placed - You would not believe what I saw...These agencies are buisnesses ----- for instance - The JFCS - as it was called at that time - had hundrends of thousands of dollars in donations coming in privately - federal money and provincial...what was very nasty was they played the anti-semitic card to the full - If you were not an anti-semite - by the time you got though with them you might be.

But I knew the system and it was not a Jewish issue - these were all secularists and socialist idealist along with a few bitter feminists who dispised men...My brother holds no resentment for the Jewish agents - all he says to this day is "The hide behind what is a good religion" - What worries me is now if there ever was a severe rise in anti-semitism --- is that my nephews would be in danger because there is paper work that states they are Jewish --- also - there was one supervisor who was Catholic and he took the stand as an expert in Judism..which was quite odd and very unprofessional...I could go on and on...sure some of these societies may be neccessary but they are power crazed - that is the problem - plus it has become very very lucrative to snatch up children - it boarders on the trading of flesh...I will drop this subject - BUT - what should have been done was a full report.........The other part was - in order to keep the filing of documents straight...we used a disbarred Jewish lawyer - who is also a radio personallity - I have attended social functions with him - and at a birthday party - all the guests were very important and seniour members of the communist party.

This lawyer took our money and betrayed us - he believed in social engineering...and he quipped one time that he had a friend or two at the Supreme Court who were hard line socialist..that is something that should be addressed.

[bjre]

Don't know if you are being cynical -

...I learned a lot about the system..and what I saw was a huge interconnected self serving bureacracy..where people were being controlled though what they loved most - THEIR CHILDREN....

...we used a disbarred ... lawyer - who is also a radio personallity - I have attended social functions with him - and at a birthday party - all the guests were very important and seniour members of the communist party.

This lawyer took our money and betrayed us - he believed in social engineering...and he quipped one time that he had a friend or two at the Supreme Court who were hard line socialist..that is something that should be addressed.

I like your description about the self serving bureaucracy, it has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism ask everyone work with their own hands and get paid measured by the work amount. Communism is different from socialism, it ask everyone work with their own hands and take whatever they want. I think maybe socialism is a good idea if it can work as the description. For communism, I don't know, how to make wealth enough for people to take, maybe it is just a theory.

CAS enjoy search vulnerable parents and take away their children and blackmail parents to admit they were guilty, put kids into unpredictable environment, hire public relation company to lie to public that they care about children, and blackmail taxpayer for "protection" money, that is neither socialism no communism at all. That is an evil industry.

I have no opposite opinion if you like compare CAS with fascism or Nazis.

Edited March 3, 2009 by bjre

[Oleg Bach]

I like your description about the self serving bureaucracy, it has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism ask everyone work with their own hands and get paid measured by the work amount. Communism is different from socialism, it ask everyone work with their own hands and take whatever they want. I think maybe socialism is a good idea if it can work as the description. For communism, I don't know, how to make wealth enough for people to take, maybe it is just a theory.

CAS enjoy search vulnerable parents and take away their children and blackmail parents to admit they were guilty, put kids into unpredictable environment, hire public relation company to lie to public that they care about children, and blackmail taxpayer for "protection" money, that is neither socialism no communism at all. That is an evil industry.

I have no opposite opinion if you like compare CAS with fascism or Nazis.

As said the last thing on their minds was the protection of children - the first thing was the pay cheque...most are delluded and actually believe in what they are doing - that is the scarey part..

As for socialism --------take the original socialist movement that was very early Christianity..."Sell your property and take the money and put it in one common purse - then - let those take as needed" The part take as needed was contractually breeched by organized later relgious sects that sprung from the early movement.

Also so-called St. Peter went a bit power crazy and began to terrorize the members and extorted money from them through threats....This was also a breach of the early contract. What I see clearly was that you were to give (be taxed) through your own free will - no governent should coerce a citizen to grant charity - that is not charity.

[bjre]

I am not sure how CAS become a government granted organization. However I found something about the another law, here is a video:

http://www.vimeo.com/1889117

Toronto lawyer, Walter Fox, discloses during a presentation to the public and the Toronto Police Services how domestic violence inquests are being used to make laws which destroy families and favour government funded women's shelter movement. Hear how our tax dollars are being misused by women shelter advocates to promote their own agenda to have the public believe that all men in Ontario are bad.

[Oleg Bach]

I am not sure how CAS become a government granted organization. However I found something about the another law, here is a video:

http://www.vimeo.com/1889117

Toronto lawyer, Walter Fox, discloses during a presentation to the public and the Toronto Police Services how domestic violence inquests are being used to make laws which destroy families and favour government funded women's shelter movement. Hear how our tax dollars are being misused by women shelter advocates to promote their own agenda to have the public believe that all men in Ontario are bad.

Not going to view it yet - as you know what I discovered about their flag ship Jewish Family And Child Serivices is that they were run like a profit making corporate operation. CAS York Region is also staffed and controled by this down town office...Catholic Childrens Aid is also inter connected - They have Catholic supervisors at the JFCS...which is astounding seeing they are supposed to operate only within the Jewish community...but as I mentioned previously the JFCS are now snatching up Muslim children and children from poor black families. This is proof that because the Jewish community is well behaved and more aware - that the JFCS simply ran out of customers - so they expand their operation breaching their own charter.

During one of the trials they were attempting to grant custody only to the mother - even though they were informed repeatedly that the mother as a child herself was run over by a truck - and suffered a severe head injury that effected her adult short term memory....YET they allowed this woman to medicate her children with drugs they provided through their doctors - a woman who could not remember if she had given a pill or not given a pill - plus she took on the role of professional victim --- adding a finacial bonus because of her compliance. They made it clear if you have disabled childern you will recieve more money - so off she went drugging to healthy boys - and actually creating a disablity chemically - as mention the boys are health and thriving - If there had not been an intervension on the part of myself and my brother - the mother and the children whould have become professional victims for life with governmental parasites depending on such for a living.

How the whole thing started was that the mother had some sort of menopausal mental break down - even though she was totally incompetant and not able to handle her own affairs - so called feminists empowered a crazy person at the peril of children.