Brantford: City sued for $10 million

[g_bambino]

More bull.

Was this commentary on AT's last post? Or was it a forewarning of what was to come in yours?

[tango]

charter.rights is correct: Since OPP banned Gary McHale from Caledonia, there have been few problems. The few people from Caledonia who still support him do not have the support of most of the townspeople, and don't seem to organize protests on their own.

It's reassuring that an instigator like McHale and his retinue of white supremacists from all across Ontario can (finally!) be stopped by police. No one wants that disgusting crap in their town!

In Brantford, there have been no organized protests against Six Nations, just a few idiots spewing racist filth. Many support Six Nations rights.

Caledonia is a beautiful town, and could be a wonderful retirement mecca for 'boomers' with the river, trails, and pretty 'downtown' shopping strip - IF they could get over their sprawl-development obsession. It is sad that Caledonia's reputation is forever tainted by the likes of McHale and his white supremacist associates.

Brantford likewise could draw a large retirement population, if they would focus on intensifying housing instead of outdated sprawl development.

I note that after one aborted attempt, cancelled due to complaints, McHale has not been seen in Brantford.

Brantford has responded better than Caledonia/Haldimand in some ways, but the Council is still strangely obsessed with pursuing their 'sprawl' agenda. However, perhaps this $10m lawsuit will encourage them to 'refocus'.

[L4P]

City sued for $10 million

Company blames municipality after building site targeted by natives

Posted By VINCENT BALL, EXPOSITOR STAFF

Updated 1 day ago

Kingspan Insulated Products, which intended to build its North American headquarters in Brantford, is suing the city for $10 million over its thwarted plans.

The company abandoned its building site in the city's northwest business park last July and, in a statement of claim, cited the problem of Six Nations protesters contesting the property as aboriginal land.

...

The company, which makes insulated wall and roof panels for the construction industry, now is planning to build in Bolton, according to a building industry source.

Besides the $10 million, the company also is seeking to rescind the deal to buy land from the city.

In its statement of claim, Kingspan accuses the city of misrepresenting the property.

Kingspan also claims the city failed to disclose pertinent information with respect to the land claims and the potential impact the land claims could have on the company's plans.

...

Kingspan says the city advised the company that the property was not subject to any specific claim and that it had been validly surrendered. The city also said no claim had been made against the property in litigation initiated by Six Nations in 1995.

... Kingspan claims the city received a letter from the Haudenosaunee putting Brantford on notice of potential claims to the property. The letter advised the city the Haudenosaunee would take all legal and peaceful steps necessary to protect their rights until the issue was resolved. The letter was dated Sept. 28, 2007, prior to the Oct. 19, 2007, closing date of the sale of the property from the city to Kingspan, the statement says.

Brantford breached its obligations and duties to disclose the letter prior to the closing date, choosing instead to withhold the letter.

...

After vacating the property, Kingspan asked the city to repurchase the property from Kingspan and compensate the company for costs and losses. The city failed to respond, the statement says.

Moreover, the city required Kingspan to provide a letter of credit authorizing the city to draw on Kingspan's account up to $1 million as security for Kingspan's completion of development of the property. The city, Kingspan says has notified the company that it intends to draw on the letter of credit due to the incompletion of the development.

Kingspan is asking the court for an injunction stopping Brantford from taking any action with respect to the letter of credit.

Brantford Expositor

Hmm ... So I guess if municipalities are 'approving' development without consent of Indigenous Nations with claims ... it may just come back to bite them!

The city put in all that infrastructure and the taxpayers paid for it, but now they can't build. They knew there was a problem and ignored it. silly them!

My reply in to the original article.

GOOD!

I agree that ignoring the issues - as the various forms of Govt. have done for 100's of years - will ultimately come back to haunt people.

The bottom line is that townspeople and govt. do not give ANY weight to Native land claims... Natives have EVERY right to protest when there is an attempt to undermine their legitimacy and steal MORE land from them.

The standoff at Oka in Quebec was no different. There is no way white people had ANY right to expand their golf-course on my people's terratory, and to add insult to injury, over top of my ancestors!

So long as injustices remain in this country with respect to land claims - so long the govt. and the people turn a blind eye, Native's in this country will continue to stand up for their rights and demand resolution and justice.

And I support that plight.

[Wild Bill]

My reply in to the original article.

GOOD!

I agree that ignoring the issues - as the various forms of Govt. have done for 100's of years - will ultimately come back to haunt people.

The bottom line is that townspeople and govt. do not give ANY weight to Native land claims... Natives have EVERY right to protest when there is an attempt to undermine their legitimacy and steal MORE land from them.

The standoff at Oka in Quebec was no different. There is no way white people had ANY right to expand their golf-course on my people's terratory, and to add insult to injury, over top of my ancestors!

So long as injustices remain in this country with respect to land claims - so long the govt. and the people turn a blind eye, Native's in this country will continue to stand up for their rights and demand resolution and justice.

And I support that plight.

Hey, I won't argue! However, the reason many non-natives in Caledonia do not any longer support native claims is that the native protesters took actions that affected the townspeople, not the government. In effect, they used them as cannon fodder.

We've never heard of those protesters marching on Queens Park, or Parliament Hill, or even the local MP or MPP's office. Old people and tv camera men get punched out. Nobody punches McGuinty.

And why punch out cameramen? The only logical reason is that the protesters didn't want their actions seen and recorded on videotape. Otherwise, why would they care?

No, the protesters at Caledonia burned all their bridges with the townsfolk. That community had had good relations for generations. Not just as neighbours but in many cases as extended families. Now the town's businesses are dying and people can't even afford to sell their homes to move somewhere else.

Worse yet, there are those on the native side who will call any townsperson who complains a simple racist who should just suck it up!

Frankly, your post seems to imply that all whites are guilty. If that's not true racism I don't know what is! Perhaps you would care to clarify your meaning.

If a protester had roared his ATV through Dalton's backyard I would have felt differently. The problem was never native claims but rather the TACTICS of the Caledonia protest! It made enemies out of friends and ignored real enemies.

No matter what is the resolution of the land claims, the bad feelings in the town will take generations to heal, if ever.

Edited February 6, 2009 by Wild Bill

[charter.rights]

Hey, I won't argue! However, the reason many non-natives in Caledonia do not any longer support native claims is that the native protesters took actions that affected the townspeople, not the government. In effect, they used them as cannon fodder.

We've never heard of those protesters marching on Queens Park, or Parliament Hill, or even the local MP or MPP's office. Old people and tv camera men get punched out. Nobody punches McGuinty.

And why punch out cameramen? The only logical reason is that the protesters didn't want their actions seen and recorded on videotape. Otherwise, why would they care?

No, the protesters at Caledonia burned all their bridges with the townsfolk. That community had had good relations for generations. Not just as neighbours but in many cases as extended families. Now the town's businesses are dying and people can't even afford to sell their homes to move somewhere else.

Worse yet, there are those on the native side who will call any townsperson who complains a simple racist who should just suck it up!

Frankly, your post seems to imply that all whites are guilty. If that's not true racism I don't know what is! Perhaps you would care to clarify your meaning.

If a protester had roared his ATV through Dalton's backyard I would have felt differently. The problem was never native claims but rather the TACTICS of the Caledonia protest! It made enemies out of friends and ignored real enemies.

No matter what is the resolution of the land claims, the bad feelings in the town will take generations to heal, if ever.

Your above is more hyperbole......bull.....make-believe....whatever you want to call it.....

Six Nation residents who provided support for those that reclaimed Douglas Creek Estates were responding to the racists in Caledonia who were caught - on video and news casts - spewing epithets, hitting golf balls and inciting bad behavior. When one guy punched a CHCH camera man for filming a confrontation with another couple he did that on his own volition and was charged and convicted for his crime. When Doug Fleming started up his illegal smoke shop out of his truck he did that on his own, was not charged and did not represent the voice of Caledonia. There have been many individual actions that demonstrate bad behavior on both sides - some were charged and others were not. The police used their discretion to lay charges(as it should be).

Racism is systemic in Canadian society and it lies just below the surface of much Canadian thinking (generally speaking). This is proven because the first reaction to most native issues hitting mainstream news is to, without any proof to the contrary, deny claims as outrageous, special interest or as pandering to "Indians". Lands claims are legitimate legal responses to histroical wrongs. They are not "over stated", "in the past", "irrelevent" or "insignificant".

Such is the example cited in this week's Regional News This Week where that same Doug Fleming suggests:

The Regional News This Week

February 4, 2009.

Classic photo

The January 28 front page photo was a classic. Two beaming O.P.P Inspectors promoting a new law that bans smoking in vehicles carrying children. Those same children can venture out to the south end of Argyle Street, buy some contraband smokes and the O.P.P will look the other way.

A person caught smoking in a vehicle carrying children under 16 can be fined $250. The people selling smokes to children are okay. Inspector Horvat said, "Youth are our future, so we need to do what it takes to protect their health." Inspector McLean should have quickly added, "As long as it doesn't upset the Indians."

Doug Fleming

Caledonia {no link available}

His last jab has nothing to do with the Six Nations issues but it is an opportunity for him to lay blame on native people for Ontarians smoking in cars with children present. Six Nations does not sell cigarettes to children.

This is not one isolated case but it invades the thinking and ultimately the verbiage of many Caledonians during the height of the Douglas Creek Estates reclamation. Once things calmed down and there is no more public authorization or cause for such bigoted outbursts, the language changes and the resentments go back underground.

However, I may also suggest that there were many who held some xenophobic attitudes whom now admit to changing their thinking. Education, truth and real history being published helped change those attitudes. However, the kind of hyperbole that is promoted by those propagandists from out of town does nothing to solve or correct the problems in Caledonia. Rather it is intended to ramp up illogical emotional responses to fact and truth. I'm guessing that they like the buffoonery that such rhetoric provokes and are merely repeating their misinformation solely for their own entertainment.

Small things amuse small minds......

Edited February 6, 2009 by charter.rights

[L4P]

Hey, I won't argue! However, the reason many non-natives in Caledonia do not any longer support native claims is that the native protesters took actions that affected the townspeople, not the government. In effect, they used them as cannon fodder.

We've never heard of those protesters marching on Queens Park, or Parliament Hill, or even the local MP or MPP's office. Old people and tv camera men get punched out. Nobody punches McGuinty.

And why punch out cameramen? The only logical reason is that the protesters didn't want their actions seen and recorded on videotape. Otherwise, why would they care?

No, the protesters at Caledonia burned all their bridges with the townsfolk. That community had had good relations for generations. Not just as neighbours but in many cases as extended families. Now the town's businesses are dying and people can't even afford to sell their homes to move somewhere else.

Worse yet, there are those on the native side who will call any townsperson who complains a simple racist who should just suck it up!

Frankly, your post seems to imply that all whites are guilty. If that's not true racism I don't know what is! Perhaps you would care to clarify your meaning.

If a protester had roared his ATV through Dalton's backyard I would have felt differently. The problem was never native claims but rather the TACTICS of the Caledonia protest! It made enemies out of friends and ignored real enemies.

No matter what is the resolution of the land claims, the bad feelings in the town will take generations to heal, if ever.

1.) Ever stop to think that the "townsfolk" burned their bridges with the First People - long ago?

2.) All whites are guilty - like it or not - IF they are not telling their governments to deal with the claims at hand...if they are unwilling to see that they currently participate in the oppression of Natives if they are unwilling to acknowledge history and work toward creating justice for Native people across Canada - then they ARE guilty. I don't care if you just came to this country yesterday - you are sitting on unceeded terratory - and should acknowledge that

Nowhere is this more dispicable than in BC...where the vast majorityof the land has not been legally dealth with - and where govt. insists on ignoring the blatantly obvious.

It is my HOPE that the Squamish and Burrary nations drop a longhouse on the sea-to-sky 2 nights before the opening ceremonies for the 2010 Olympics. It would be a fine way of showing the rest of the world Canada's dirty little secret...and a fine way of letting local govt. lknow that the People have not forgotten.

[Oleg Bach]

You would think that this stuff was all done by design, with intention of generating buisness...the courts must just love it.

[charter.rights]

It is my HOPE that the Squamish and Burrary nations drop a longhouse on the sea-to-sky 2 nights before the opening ceremonies for the 2010 Olympics. It would be a fine way of showing the rest of the world Canada's dirty little secret...and a fine way of letting local govt. lknow that the People have not forgotten.

Oh.......don't worry...what will happen will make the 2010 Winter Olympics something the world will remember for a long time.

[Wild Bill]

1.) Ever stop to think that the "townsfolk" burned their bridges with the First People - long ago?

2.) All whites are guilty - like it or not - IF they are not telling their governments to deal with the claims at hand...if they are unwilling to see that they currently participate in the oppression of Natives if they are unwilling to acknowledge history and work toward creating justice for Native people across Canada - then they ARE guilty. I don't care if you just came to this country yesterday - you are sitting on unceeded terratory - and should acknowledge that

Nowhere is this more dispicable than in BC...where the vast majorityof the land has not been legally dealth with - and where govt. insists on ignoring the blatantly obvious.

It is my HOPE that the Squamish and Burrary nations drop a longhouse on the sea-to-sky 2 nights before the opening ceremonies for the 2010 Olympics. It would be a fine way of showing the rest of the world Canada's dirty little secret...and a fine way of letting local govt. lknow that the People have not forgotten.

"All whites are guilty"? Well, not much room for discussion there. If I said all natives are guilty of whatever, I guess that would be racism. Apparently, only whites can be racist, if I follow your 'reasoning'.

Still, that don't confront me none! You see, I don't consider myself part of a tribe. I'm an individual, responsible only for my own sins and I only take credit for my own successes.

I don't speak here to ALL natives! I don't even speak to all of Six Nations. I speak only to those involved in the Caledonia protest, who have exercised certain tactics that I don't find moral.

I could even support your views on the B.C. situation, at least in some part.

I just can't respect many of the things that went on in Caledonia. I suspect that much of the more extreme action was done by individuals who aren't even native to Caledonia - imported protesters, if you like. They will use Caledonia as a poster child for their own cause and then move on, leaving the incumbent Six Nations people to deal with the hard feelings.

ASIDE TO CHARTER.RIGHTS - You seem to often follow my posts and sometimes I see from quotes in other posts where apparently you have been posting to me. You should be aware that I have had you on 'ignore' in my control panel since at least last fall. Save your fingers.

[charter.rights]

ASIDE TO CHARTER.RIGHTS - You seem to often follow my posts and sometimes I see from quotes in other posts where apparently you have been posting to me. You should be aware that I have had you on 'ignore' in my control panel since at least last fall. Save your fingers.

I'm aware of your ostrich mentality. However, that still does not mean that I can't counter your fiction with fact.

[guyser]

I'm aware of your ostrich mentality. However, that still does not mean that I can't counter your fiction with fact... at least in my own mind.

Fixed it for ya.

[tango]

Update from court re injunction hearing:

Judge appointed Amicus Curiae to research Six Nations claim to the Haldimand Tract. Amicus returned a report that the Haldimand Proclamation ans Simcoe Patents are "legally binding as treaties". This was accepted as evidence by the Judge.

Court resumes Monday in Brantford, to determine whether the City of Brantford can have an injunction against Six Nations.

[charter.rights]

Update from court re injunction hearing:

Judge appointed Amicus Curiae to research Six Nations claim to the Haldimand Tract. Amicus returned a report that the Haldimand Proclamation ans Simcoe Patents are "legally binding as treaties". This was accepted as evidence by the Judge.

Court resumes Monday in Brantford, to determine whether the City of Brantford can have an injunction against Six Nations.

Those of us whom have studied law and researched Six Nations knew that years ago. I'm glad the courts are finally acknowledging it.

So Six Nations protesters can legally go back calling them the Haldimand Treaty and the Simcoe Treaty.

When you get a chance can you provide the reference?

Edited February 21, 2009 by charter.rights

[tango]

Those of us whom have studied law and researched Six Nations knew that years ago. I'm glad the courts are finally acknowledging it.

So Six Nations protesters can legally go back calling them the Haldimand Treaty and the Simcoe Treaty.

When you get a chance can you provide the reference?

That's just a verbal update.

[charter.rights]

That's just a verbal update.

Yes, I understand but when the written notes come out could you post them. This is a remarkable turn of history.

[tango]

Yes, I understand but when the written notes come out could you post them. This is a remarkable turn of history.

Absolutely!

[madmax]

City Lawyer heats up the Rhetoric

HDI a 'sham': lawyer

Posted By EXPOSITOR STAFF

Updated 2 hours ago

The long and winding road to stop natives from protesting at development sites in Brantford Superior Court on Monday.

Neal Smitheman, a lawyer representing the city, spent the day outlining the intricacies of case law, evidence and statements made in prior affidavits, in an attempt to get Justice Harrison Arrell to grant the city a second-stage, or interlocutory, injunction against protesters.

He is trying to hit a home run. It sounds a bit desperate to me or over the top. Sounds like he wants to frame the public perception.

[tango]

City Lawyer heats up the Rhetoric He is trying to hit a home run. It sounds a bit desperate to me or over the top. Sounds like he wants to frame the public perception.

Well, that's one side. Doesn't appear to have much 'law' on his side though, just a bunch of hot air rhetoric and catastrophizing. That's not law.

Soon it will be time for Six Nations to explain the laws to the court, the fact that no development can legally proceed until the Crown (province) CONSULTS with them AND ACCOMMODATES their Aboriginal Rights on the land.

Pretty straightforward, really:

- Constitution:

35. (1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed.

- Supreme Court upheld Ontario Court of Appeal Case Law:

[48]Where a requested injunction is intended to create “a protest-free zone” for contentious private activity that affects asserted aboriginal or treaty rights, the court must be very careful to ensure that, in the context of the dispute before it, the Crown has fully and faithfully discharged its duty to consult with the affected First Nations: see Julia E. Lawn, “The John Doe Injunction in Mass Protest Cases” (1998) 56 U.T. Fac. L. Rev. 101. The court must further be satisfied that every effort has been exhausted to obtain a negotiated or legislated solution to the dispute before it. Good faith on both sides is required in this process: Haida Nation, p. 532.

Ontario Court of Appeal

[charter.rights]

Well, that's one side. Doesn't appear to have much 'law' on his side though, just a bunch of hot air rhetoric and catastrophizing. That's not law.

Soon it will be time for Six Nations to explain the laws to the court, the fact that no development can legally proceed until the Crown (province) CONSULTS with them AND ACCOMMODATES their Aboriginal Rights on the land.

Pretty straightforward, really:

- Constitution:

35. (1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed.

- Supreme Court upheld Ontario Court of Appeal Case Law:

[48]Where a requested injunction is intended to create “a protest-free zone” for contentious private activity that affects asserted aboriginal or treaty rights, the court must be very careful to ensure that, in the context of the dispute before it, the Crown has fully and faithfully discharged its duty to consult with the affected First Nations: see Julia E. Lawn, “The John Doe Injunction in Mass Protest Cases” (1998) 56 U.T. Fac. L. Rev. 101. The court must further be satisfied that every effort has been exhausted to obtain a negotiated or legislated solution to the dispute before it. Good faith on both sides is required in this process: Haida Nation, p. 532.

Ontario Court of Appeal

Smitheman used the same kind of rhetoric and hyperbole to get Brantford Council to request the injunction in the first place. No doubt his one and main concern in this entire proceeding is....how much he is going to get paid....