Coalition Government

[fellowtraveller]

Duceppe is not part of the coalition.

Officially, you mean.

Ther math is simple, the NDP/Liberals do not have more seats than the CPC alone, so the GG will not approve a colaition without the Bloc. There'd be no point, as the first vote in the new House could bring down the coalition.

And promises of support are not enough, the leaders of the coalition parties are obliged to present themselves to the GG and if the numbers don't add up to a majority, she'll allow an election to proceeed.

It won';t natter that the Bloc agrees to support the coalition when it feels magnanimous.

I sincerely hope the CPC is defeated, it is an easy route to multiple majorities for them.

I also look forward to the packaging and marketing of Bob Rae as Finance Minister.

[Slim MacSquinty]

It would be up to Duceppe to support or not support the government.

That's it in a nutshell really, if a coalition is possible it leaves Duceppe as spoiler, for every vote for every decision pertinent to Canadian legislation.

[Smallc]

How could he not be in a coalition? The CPC have 29 more seats than the Liberals and NDP combined who could not form a government or defeat the present government without him and for that, there will be a price. A price that the ROC will punish the Liberals and NDP for at the next election.

The Bloc will not be in the coalition. They will support it but will not be part of it in any way.

[jdobbin]

How could he not be in a coalition? The CPC have 29 more seats than the Liberals and NDP combined who could not form a government or defeat the present government without him and for that, there will be a price. A price that the ROC will punish the Liberals and NDP for at the next election.

So sure of you of the punishment?

The Bloc would not be in a newly formed government. I don't know if it can be any clearer. They will not have any cabinet position, they won't in government caucus.

It will be up to them to support or not support the government. I'm sure they will have a list of things they want but at the moment, they seem prepared to send Harper packing and support the next government for a while.

[jdobbin]

Officially, you mean.

Completely, I mean.

Ther math is simple, the NDP/Liberals do not have more seats than the CPC alone, so the GG will not approve a colaition without the Bloc. There'd be no point, as the first vote in the new House could bring down the coalition.

And promises of support are not enough, the leaders of the coalition parties are obliged to present themselves to the GG and if the numbers don't add up to a majority, she'll allow an election to proceeed.

Actually, you are incorrect. In a minority government, the Governor General just has to see that the Opposition demonstrates readiness to govern in the place of the government. Having two parties as a coalition government is more than enough.

It is up to Duceppe to show confidence in the next government or not.

It won';t natter that the Bloc agrees to support the coalition when it feels magnanimous.

They have supported previous minorities. Why would this be any different.

If they are the ones that bring down the next government, they will have to explain to Quebecers why they think it is needed.

I sincerely hope the CPC is defeated, it is an easy route to multiple majorities for them.

Since the majority of people have voted against the Tories, where do you think the hue and cry will come from?

No one wants an election but Harper does need to maintain confidence to govern. If the other parties step up, they will be judged accordingly.

I also look forward to the packaging and marketing of Bob Rae as Finance Minister.

He won't be in the government. No one running for the Liberal leadership will be.

Edited November 28, 2008 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

That's it in a nutshell really, if a coalition is possible it leaves Duceppe as spoiler, for every vote for every decision pertinent to Canadian legislation.

Exactly.

Or else the Tories could support the new government. You never know.

[Wilber]

The Bloc will not be in the coalition. They will support it but will not be part of it in any way.

How can the Liberals and NDP form a coalition without the Bloc being part of it? Why would the GG ask them to form a government when they don't have enough seats between them to form one? Some democracy that would be. Duceppe will have to tag along with them and say he will be a part of it otherwise it will be a no go.

[jdobbin]

How can the Liberals and NDP form a coalition without the Bloc being part of it? Why would the GG ask them to form a government when they don't have enough seats between them to form one? Some democracy that would be. Duceppe will have to tag along with them and say he will be a part of it otherwise it will be a no go.

It would work the same as any minority government would work. It depends on confidence. If the new government can show that it has enough confidence to run, it can be allowed a chance to form a government.

[Smallc]

Duceppe will have to tag along with them and say he will be a part of it otherwise it will be a no go.

All he has to do is say that he will support it. He may agree not to defeat it for a certain length of time to make it even better.

[johhny]

All he has to do is say that he will support it. He may agree not to defeat it for a certain length of time to make it even better.

All they need to do is make promise to increase funding to the arts and this coalition will happen, Harpers cutts to Quebec will destroy his dynasty

[Wilber]

All he has to do is say that he will support it. He may agree not to defeat it for a certain length of time to make it even better.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I can see the billions flowing into Quebec already.

[jdobbin]

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I can see the billions flowing into Quebec already.

And it isn't now?

[Wilber]

And it isn't now?

You ain't seen nothing yet. Gilles will want his pound of flesh for this. He has no desire to form government himself, just blackmail those who are. I'm sure he has the bubbly on ice already.

[Smallc]

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. I can see the billions flowing into Quebec already.

As it should. it should be flowing to every province in the form of infrastructure funding to help offset the effects of this down turn.

[jdobbin]

You ain't seen nothing yet. Gilles will want his pound of flesh for this. He has no desire to form government himself, just blackmail those who are. I'm sure he has the bubbly on ice already.

As I said, Harper would be the spending just the same in Quebec. It is the same in every minority. You think the Tories are better on spending? The evidence isn't there, I'm afraid. The Liberals have a way better record on cutting in the last years.

[Slim MacSquinty]

It is doubtful we will see history in the making in the next two weeks, but certainly is among the most interesting times politically I've witnessed. National post editorial board has some interesting observations regarding political funding and the timing of Conservative move. I can't image only the second coalition government in 100 years being allowed to serve at the mercy of the BQ, with only a recession as the crisis as its impetus.

In order to make a no confidence vote most difficult for the opposition parties the Cons need to make some ovature which at least on its face appears to be a compromise, to this effect I suggest two measures; the first to phase in the removal of tax dollars for votes, say over two elections, first down to $1 then to $0.5 subsequent elections to zero. Second form a blue ribbon commitee made up of cabinet ministers, business types and provincial leaders to establish a plan for financial intervention in the economy, token opposition members could be added at governments descretion.

Perhaps the only way to save face at this point and thwart the rath of another election, either now or in coming 6 to 12 months. This game of chicken is not likely to be won in the court of public opinion by any one party, despite the apparent glee of some zeolously on the left.

A coalition of NDP and week Liberals with BQ support could only spell disaster for the economy and fiscal balance sheet.

[Wilber]

As I said, Harper would be the spending just the same in Quebec. It is the same in every minority. You think the Tories are better on spending? The evidence isn't there, I'm afraid. The Liberals have a way better record on cutting in the last years.

What makes you think it will be the Liberals calling the shots? They will be in a minority in their own coalition. The NDP and BQ combined outnumber them.

This is a really bad situation considering the present crisis. They are all acting like idiots. Harper started it but the others are no better.

[Smallc]

Harper started it but the others are no better.

Maybe, but Harper never should have started it. He played with fire and it appears that this time he may have gotten burned.

[Wilber]

Maybe, but Harper never should have started it. He played with fire and it appears that this time he may have gotten burned.

No my friend, it will be the Canadian people who get burned because of this, no matter how it turns out.

[Smallc]

No my friend, it will be the Canadian people who get burned because of this, no matter how it turns out.

And if they do, it will be the doing of Mr Harper and Mr Flarhety. I supported the Conservative almost 100%, until yesterday.

[jdobbin]

It is doubtful we will see history in the making in the next two weeks, but certainly is among the most interesting times politically I've witnessed. National post editorial board has some interesting observations regarding political funding and the timing of Conservative move. I can't image only the second coalition government in 100 years being allowed to serve at the mercy of the BQ, with only a recession as the crisis as its impetus.

How is it different from any other minority? What makes you think the Tories will vote no every time?

In order to make a no confidence vote most difficult for the opposition parties the Cons need to make some ovature which at least on its face appears to be a compromise, to this effect I suggest two measures; the first to phase in the removal of tax dollars for votes, say over two elections, first down to $1 then to $0.5 subsequent elections to zero. Second form a blue ribbon commitee made up of cabinet ministers, business types and provincial leaders to establish a plan for financial intervention in the economy, token opposition members could be added at governments descretion.

In the same way that the Tories showed compromise? They howl coward across the floor of the House and say they won't budge on anything. Well, finally the Liberal have stood up the bullying.

Perhaps the only way to save face at this point and thwart the rath of another election, either now or in coming 6 to 12 months. This game of chicken is not likely to be won in the court of public opinion by any one party, despite the apparent glee of some zeolously on the left.

The zealous right slapped their knees and said they had a majority defacto and were looking to spring an election before May.

Harper backed down on election financing and said he won't call an election himself before two years are up because he knows he miscalculated on those things.

However, he has lost the confidence of the House with his petty bullying and brinkmanship.

A coalition of NDP and week Liberals with BQ support could only spell disaster for the economy and fiscal balance sheet.

And Harper kept saying that he was going to run a deficit and the budget officer for Parliament laid it out at his feet.

[jdobbin]

What makes you think it will be the Liberals calling the shots? They will be in a minority in their own coalition. The NDP and BQ combined outnumber them.

Perhaps Harper should have thought about this before saying you are going to bend over and take what ever I give you to the Liberals.

What makes you think Harper and the Tories are going to vote no each time and go to an election?

This is a really bad situation considering the present crisis. They are all acting like idiots. Harper started it but the others are no better.

I've seen no evidence that Harper won't do this again and again. Politics is war with him. He has lost confidence.

[Wilber]

And if they do, it will be the doing of Mr Harper and Mr Flarhety. I supported the Conservative almost 100%, until yesterday.

I'm pretty dissapointed in them to but what is your alternative, a week coalition between parties that are totaly incompatible? Whether dobbin likes to admit it or not, Canadian liberals have more in common with Canadian conservatives than they do the NDP and the Bloc has an agenda all its own which doesn't include the ROC.

The best solution for the country at this point is for Harper to back off and learn something from this, even if it means eating a little crow and the opposition should be satisfied with that, for now at least.

[Slim MacSquinty]

First off we aren't talking about the election of a minority government, we are talking about forming a coalition before voting down the government and hoping that the GG will see it your way, the GG has only asked once before during the great war, clearly a time of nation crisis, not a coalition supported by a party advocating separation of one of our provinces. The negative possiblities are substantial.

Second, the characterisation of bullying is tenuous, since the Liberals and NDP have exibited nothing but hostility toward the government, how else do you expect the government to act? The manipulation of the committees by the Liberals and their constant threats to bring down the government certainly do not show a hand across the floor aproach. Then they invoke the Obama statements which to me demonstrates their lack of understanding of the difference of the state of affairs on the different sides of the boarder and this from the party which only a few years ago was so smug and anti American. Political opportunists come in all stripes.

Finally Flaherty's approach was uniquely Canadian because our problem is uniquely Canadian, we had no real estate bubble to collapse like in the states, our banks are not on the verge of failiure and our economy hasn't fallen completely flat. So a slower approach is probably warranted in terms of stimulus, furthermore since much of our economic activitiy is based on exports to the US, it could only be wise to time our stimulus package to follow the US approach. I have yet to hear anything from the opposition parties which sound like a reasoned plan which could provide any benefit to anyone. Just alot more of the chicken little approach.

[Wilber]

Perhaps Harper should have thought about this before saying you are going to bend over and take what ever I give you to the Liberals.

I believe that it is the Canadian taxpayer who is doing the giving and that is something for the Liberals to contemplate, not Harper.