Radical Islam

[moderateamericain]

I offer no opinion just watch for your self

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLXZpOG4VCI...feature=related

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[AngusThermopyle]

I've seen the video, its quite interesting.

A far better movie however is one called suicide killers, I've mentioned it before. They interviewed captive suicide bombers being held in max security Israeli jails. Its really an eye opener, especially when they talk about the real reason they want to do this. I guarantee that at the very least you'll be surprised when you hear the reason coming straight from the mouths of the killers.

[moderateamericain]

I've seen the video, its quite interesting.

A far better movie however is one called suicide killers, I've mentioned it before. They interviewed captive suicide bombers being held in max security Israeli jails. Its really an eye opener, especially when they talk about the real reason they want to do this. I guarantee that at the very least you'll be surprised when you hear the reason coming straight from the mouths of the killers.

I think the one thing I took from these videos/ hour long documentry is that I have a new understand at the depth of the Brainwashing that Extremist Islamic views has become mainstreamed into the culture. These people litterly eat, sleep, and watch violent Jihad every day. Its no wonder that many of them turn to a life of violence. Its all they know.

[Kitch]

I think the one thing I took from these videos/ hour long documentry is that I have a new understand at the depth of the Brainwashing that Extremist Islamic views has become mainstreamed into the culture. These people litterly eat, sleep, and watch violent Jihad every day. Its no wonder that many of them turn to a life of violence. Its all they know.

I don't want to turn this into an insult tennis match... I really don't. But I have to ask the question, why might there be so many violent Americans? (It's a sincere question).

[WIP]

I don't want to turn this into an insult tennis match... I really don't. But I have to ask the question, why might there be so many violent Americans? (It's a sincere question).

And my follow-up question is why the states that have the most fervent adherence to Christian fundamentalism, also have the highest murder rates, rates of domestic violence and divorce rates?

[WIP]

I think the one thing I took from these videos/ hour long documentry is that I have a new understand at the depth of the Brainwashing that Extremist Islamic views has become mainstreamed into the culture. These people litterly eat, sleep, and watch violent Jihad every day. Its no wonder that many of them turn to a life of violence. Its all they know.

You should first begin with the realization that this movie is propaganda designed to frighten Western audiences. It is funded by a shadowy group called the Clarion Fund, that will not reveal who its members are and what their goals are. Should I take their word for it, that what they call extremists Muslims (which seems to be every Muslim, since some of the spokesmen in the movie claim that Islamic doctrine naturally leads towards extremism) are eating, sleeping, breathing jihad, or should I consider that a Muslim or a Hindu who just finished watching Jesus Camp, might think the same thing about Christianity?

If their goals are honest about fighting radical Islam, is it going to happen by making the case for a war against Islam, or is it more likely that the more pragmatic and less zealous minds in the Muslim World will be able to take the stage from zealous radicals if attacks from outsiders ease off and threats of invasion fade into the past?

[wulf42]

You should first begin with the realization that this movie is propaganda designed to frighten Western audiences. It is funded by a shadowy group called the Clarion Fund, that will not reveal who its members are and what their goals are. Should I take their word for it, that what they call extremists Muslims (which seems to be every Muslim, since some of the spokesmen in the movie claim that Islamic doctrine naturally leads towards extremism) are eating, sleeping, breathing jihad, or should I consider that a Muslim or a Hindu who just finished watching Jesus Camp, might think the same thing about Christianity?

If their goals are honest about fighting radical Islam, is it going to happen by making the case for a war against Islam, or is it more likely that the more pragmatic and less zealous minds in the Muslim World will be able to take the stage from zealous radicals if attacks from outsiders ease off and threats of invasion fade into the past?

Well i know one way to combat radical Islam...the U.S. president should state the next time the U.S. is attacked in any serious way..Mecca will be nuked!...that would make the bastards think twice!

[Peter F]

Well i know one way to combat radical Islam...the U.S. president should state the next time the U.S. is attacked in any serious way..Mecca will be nuked!...that would make the bastards think twice!

Osama would be dancing with joy!

[Kitch]

Well i know one way to combat radical Islam...the U.S. president should state the next time the U.S. is attacked in any serious way..Mecca will be nuked!...that would make the bastards think twice!

For real man?

[wulf42]

Osama would be dancing with joy!

How do you figure that?...........that is the most important place to a Muslim radical...i don't think they want to see it go up in a mushroom cloud....seems only fitting to say if your going to keep attacking us.............we are going to annilate you!................they started the war....the west didn't!

Edited October 11, 2008 by wulf42

[Kitch]

How do you figure that?...........that is the most important place to a Muslim radical...i don't think they want to see it go up in a mushroom cloud....seems only fitting to say if your going to keep attacking us.............we are going to annilate you!................they started the war....the west didn't!

It's the most important place to all muslims. Attack it and you will have created a lot more enemies. But that leaves this in the realm of strategy of war... what is the point of this "war" that you say "they" started? How did they do that? Be careful about your answer... think back, waaaaayy back.

[wulf42]

It's the most important place to all muslims. Attack it and you will have created a lot more enemies. But that leaves this in the realm of strategy of war... what is the point of this "war" that you say "they" started? How did they do that? Be careful about your answer... think back, waaaaayy back.

I know what your getting at...............the plight of the Muslims and stealing their land hundreds of year ago......the whole Israeli thing..............but the all out war.........against radical Islam started 9/11.......now its come down to them or us............my point is they should be told if they launch another major attack the reprisal will be so menacing that it wouldn't be worth it!

[AngusThermopyle]

If their goals are honest about fighting radical Islam, is it going to happen by making the case for a war against Islam, or is it more likely that the more pragmatic and less zealous minds in the Muslim World will be able to take the stage from zealous radicals if attacks from outsiders ease off and threats of invasion fade into the past?

This relates directly to the movie I mentioned, Suicide Killers. Every single bomber they interviwed had the same answer as to why they do it, every free Lebanese supporter of Jihad also had the same answer as to why they do it, and the answer had nothing at all to do with invasion or occupation. Like I said, you'd be shocked if you could hear them talking about their motivation, the words straight from their mouths to your ears. Believe me, the reason is truly truly insane and shows just how dangerous and damaging religion can be.

Its also a far more balanced movie as they found and interviewed some Lebanese non supporters of the violence. As the interviewed people said, they're very much against the fighting and want peace but they can't say or do anything about it since they would just be killed out of hand by their fellow country men if they did. Really, if you want to discuss this subject a good place to start would be by watching this movie.

[Kitch]

I know what your getting at...............the plight of the Muslims and stealing their land hundreds of year ago......the whole Israeli thing..............but the all out war.........against radical Islam started 9/11.......now its come down to them or us............my point is they should be told if they launch another major attack the reprisal will be so menacing that it wouldn't be worth it!

That's the most ridiculous repetition of George Bush that I've... heard in a while.

Them or us? "The" war started september 11?

First, there isn't any real certainty about who committed that act... a whole bunch of the alleged attackers are still alive. Whether or not that leads to what some people call 'conspiracy theories' is another story but the fact is that a MAJOR detail of the 'official' story is completely wrong. Doesn't that raise any questions in your head.

But, even if this was an attack on the U.S... rather, the western world, by "radical islam", how do you target this group? How do you define this group? There are many groups that we could consider 'radical islamists' but don't have any intention to attack the 'western world'. Maybe they have beef with Israel, or some other middle eastern country. Are they our 'enemy'? Sure you can point out Bin Laden and his Al Queda, but then "we" have no business attacking countries. (I'm going to stop saying we, because I don't include myself with American war mongers).

How many christian groups are there out there that want to/do/have committed violent acts? Why don't you lump them into one group called "radical christians"? It's convenient to lump muslims together because it gives people an outlet for anger about 9/11. It's not fair though, nor is it prudent. You create a whole lot more enemies than you originally perceived yourself having to begin with.

You acknowledged the logic of my main point in my last post but ignore it. So westerners (US not included as we had nothing to do with such decisions) did some terrible things to people in the middle east. Not the least of which is enable the creation of Israel, which is not THAT bad in itself, except for that we ignore what the Israelis are doing to Palestinians. Regions of Israel used to have close to equal proportions of jews and muslims, but jews have effectively pushed muslims (Palestinians) out of their homes and taken over control of the land. On top of that, they've built what could be referred to as concentration camps for Palestinians to live in, with giant walls surrounding them and all. They have blocked supplies from getting into these 'ghettos' too, making it difficult for the people to live. On top of THAT, Israeli soldiers routinely attack citizens inside these areas (such as Gaza) by flying helicopters over them and firing missiles at cars of 'suspected terrorists'.

How convenient has that definition become? Anyone that a politician/military doesn't like can be labeled as such, making them open to all sorts of attacks. Such people are treated as less than human by the U.S. in their 'secret prisons' and places like Guantanamo Bay. How can you treat a SUSPECTED terrorist worse than a CONVICTED PEDOPHILE!?!?!?! On one hand you have somebody that you suspect of having opinions that threaten, most often, your interests, not even your own people, your 'interests'. You hold that guy without telling him why. Torture him. Treat him like the fucking shitiest shit on Earth. Are people who admit to violently raping children treated this badly?

Give your head a shake and get over your emotions before people like you advocate for some of the biggest mistakes and atrocities in human history.

[AngusThermopyle]

That's the most ridiculous repetition of George Bush that I've... heard in a while.

I understand and respect what you are saying but once again it fails to address the motivation of the people who are comiting these attacks in the middle east. Go rent that movie, like I said, you'll be truly shocked when you hear them explain why they do these things.

I almost forgot to mention that they also interviewed some female bombers they've caught, the motivation was the same as the males, just from a female perspective instead.

Edited October 11, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[Kitch]

I understand and respect what you are saying but once again it fails to address the motivation of the people who are comiting these attacks in the middle east. Go rent that movie, like I said, you'll be truly shocked when you hear them explain why they do these things.

I almost forgot to mention that they also interviewed some female bombers they've caught, the motivation was the same as the males, just from a female perspective instead.

I'm not gonna lie, I haven't seen the movie you're talking about... or the ones posted above. I am interested in knowing the motives of people who blow themselves up. I'm confident that they won't make a lot of sense. BUT, whatever the motive is, it doesn't NECESSARILY represent the whole of the people.

I gotta know though... do they do it because they believe that non-believers (infidels) prevent them from getting into heaven?

I understand that you say it's a relatively objective film... but I mean, how objective is ANY film. Especially one about such a serious subject. Either way, regardless of their motives, the answer is not to blow them all up. They're still people regardless of what their intentions are. Do we prevent them from doing what they want to do? (Kill white people). SURE!! But shouldn't we exhaust all other forms of prevention before killing them???

[AngusThermopyle]

Okay, I'll tell you the reason they gave. Its insane but its straight from their mouths. Every one of them stated it was so they could be married. As they explain it, its very difficult to get married in Lebanon now. To marry a man must own something of substance, property, some form of wealth, a woman must have a dowry. These are objectives that are very difficult or even impossible for them to attain. By their reasoning when they blow themselves and others up in the service of Jihad they will ascend to heaven and be granted their virgins. These virgins will be their wives. From the female perspective they will ascend to heaven and become one of the virgins, the holy warrior to whom they are gifted will become their husband.

Didn't I tell you it was truly insane? You really should watch this movie, its very informative and quite an eye opener.

I should also state that this movie makes no judgements one way or another, they simply wanted answers from those who are involved. Thats why they also interviewed Israelis and the famillies of bombers about the same subject, not always with predictable results I might add.

[Kitch]

Okay, I'll tell you the reason they gave. Its insane but its straight from their mouths. Every one of them stated it was so they could be married. As they explain it, its very difficult to get married in Lebanon now. To marry a man must own something of substance, property, some form of wealth, a woman must have a dowry. These are objectives that are very difficult or even impossible for them to attain. By their reasoning when they blow themselves and others up in the service of Jihad they will ascend to heaven and be granted their virgins. These virgins will be their wives. From the female perspective they will ascend to heaven and become one of the virgins, the holy warrior to whom they are gifted will become their husband.

Didn't I tell you it was truly insane? You really should watch this movie, its very informative and quite an eye opener.

I should also state that this movie makes no judgements one way or another, they simply wanted answers from those who are involved. Thats why they also interviewed Israelis and the famillies of bombers about the same subject, not always with predictable results I might add.

That is messed up! I do want to check this out!

But, that doesn't warrant "us" declaring war on them? By "them", I mean a portion of the population of... whatever country. I know people from Lebanon. I don't claim to know how many people have this whacked out motive, but, I'd find it hard to believe that it was a large number.

[wulf42]

But, even if this was an attack on the U.S... rather, the western world, by "radical islam", how do you target this group? How do you define this group? There are many groups that we could consider 'radical islamists' but don't have any intention to attack the 'western world'. Maybe they have beef with Israel, or some other middle eastern country. Are they our 'enemy'? Sure you can point out Bin Laden and his Al Queda, but then "we" have no business attacking countries. (I'm going to stop saying we, because I don't include myself with American war mongers).

Give your head a shake and get over your emotions before people like you advocate for some of the biggest mistakes and atrocities in human history.

Look! ..............these people are hell bent in killing us in the West...their stupid religion supports death to all non believer...there is no reasoning with these people .....they don t care who they kill or how many.........even the Nazi's as bad as they were at least fought like men in uniform.......these animals hide in the shadows to cowardly to come out and fight like soldiers........Islam is the cause of most terror groups in existance........and they are plotting even bigger ways to kill with the full support of countries like Iran and Syria..and Pakistan where they breed hatred.......the West has to accept the fact it may take Nuclear strikes to end this.....once and for all!!! against states that support terrorism Because sure as hell if they ever get nukes (and they are trying) they will get us and our families.... better to get terrorist's first!...........it is us or them they state that themselves!!..........they believe it is the way of Islam or nothing........well if it comes down to it (and someday it will!!)......... i rather it be us and not them!!

Edited October 12, 2008 by wulf42

[JB Globe]

Look! ..............these people are hell bent in killing us in the West...their stupid religion supports death to all non believer...there is no reasoning with these people .....they don t care who they kill or how many.........even the Nazi's as bad as they were at least fought like men in uniform.......these animals hide in the shadows to cowardly to come out and fight like soldiers........Islam is the cause of most terror groups in existance........and they are plotting even bigger ways to kill with the full support of countries like Iran and Syria..and Pakistan where they breed hatred.......the West has to accept the fact it may take Nuclear strikes to end this.....once and for all!!! Because sure as hell if they ever get nukes (and they are trying) they will get us and our families.... better to get them first!...........it is us or them they state that themselves!!..........they believe it is the way of Islam or nothing........well if it comes down to it (and someday it will!!)......... i rather it be us and not them!!

Troll?

Sock puppet?

I hope? . . . For your sake . . .

Edited October 11, 2008 by JB Globe

[wulf42]

Troll?

Sock puppet?

I hope? . . . For your sake . . .

You are obviously an idiot..............it is the likes of you that these people get away with the things they do!.....and regardless what you or i think the Israeli's will one day be pushed to far and take care of the problem for us!

Like so!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle1290331.ece

Edited October 11, 2008 by wulf42

[WIP]

Well i know one way to combat radical Islam...the U.S. president should state the next time the U.S. is attacked in any serious way..Mecca will be nuked!...that would make the bastards think twice!

People don't adhere to religions for rational reasons, regardless of which of the thousands of religions we're talking about. When believers in a religion, a cult or a cult leader are persecuted, it is automatically interpreted as a sign from above that they are being tested because they have the Truth that this sinful world is afraid of.

There is an historical precedence for the type of action that you and former Republican presidential candidate Tom Tancredo are advocating: Back in the year 70 C.E., the Romans had become so fed up with continual Jewish uprisings against Roman Government, that they decided the Temple in Jerusalem, that was the focal point of Judaism, had to be completely destroyed and desecrated. The Romans ended the uprising, and they were right that destroying the focal point of Jewish religion that was supposed to be protected by their God, would end the uprisings; but it didn't end Judaism -- instead the modern traditions of Rabbinical Judaism arose, and it became a religion that was no longer dependent on animal sacrifices and requiring regular pilgrimages, and the focus moved to books of written law.

But who knows what the end result could have been! Back in those days, there were no nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, so the fallout from such a bold, dramatic attack would be relatively minimal. At the time, the "terrorists" were known as the Zealots, and during those pre-technological attacks, a zealot had to take his knife and assassinate a Roman public official or maybe a centurion, and would be immediately arrested and likely crucified by the Roman governor -- back then, suicide terrorism was a low yield attack!

So in this day and age, doing something equivalent to sacking the Temple would unleash a whirlwind of unforseen consequences.

[Peter F]

Look! ..............these people are hell bent in killing us in the West...their stupid religion supports death to all non believer...there is no reasoning with these people .....they don t care who they kill or how many.........even the Nazi's as bad as they were at least fought like men in uniform.......these animals hide in the shadows to cowardly to come out and fight like soldiers........Islam is the cause of most terror groups in existance........and they are plotting even bigger ways to kill with the full support of countries like Iran and Syria..and Pakistan where they breed hatred.......the West has to accept the fact it may take Nuclear strikes to end this.....once and for all!!! Because sure as hell if they ever get nukes (and they are trying) they will get us and our families.... better to get them first!...........it is us or them they state that themselves!!..........they believe it is the way of Islam or nothing........well if it comes down to it (and someday it will!!)......... i rather it be us and not them!!

So lets nuke everyone in Mecca and/or Tehran...and the difference between you and them again is what?

[AngusThermopyle]

But, that doesn't warrant "us" declaring war on them? By "them", I mean a portion of the population of... whatever country. I know people from Lebanon. I don't claim to know how many people have this whacked out motive, but, I'd find it hard to believe that it was a large number.

I agree, but it can not be denied that there is a large radical element in Lebanon. As I said, they do interview some Lebanese who are sick of the constant violence but they themselves say that they can't do anything or they'll be killed. Another shocking part was when they talked to a bomber who hadn't been caught, he talks about how happy it would make him if he could walk into a nursery full of Israeli babies and detonate there. Unfortunately it is a sizeable portion of the population who share these views.

It was interesting when they talked to young Israeli people about it. The overwhelming response was that they wished it would end as well. There are people on both sides who decry the violence but they're pretty much powerless to do anything about it.

It really is a must see movie for anyone who is at all interested in the situation over there. They don't just give you a recitation of events or acts, they attempt to delve a little more deaply into the true and immedeate motivations for these acts.

[wulf42]

So lets nuke everyone in Mecca and/or Tehran...and the difference between you and them again is what?

The difference is until those maggots attacked the world trade center....nobody really understood how dangerous they the terrorist were becoming...................nobody wants to wipe out Mecca or Tehran................but when you have the Leader of Iran threatening to wipe Israel off the map...and Al-Qaeda trying to kill as many Westeners as possible with about 90% of the Arab worlds blessing what the hell do you think we should do?? blow kisses at them??? just the mere threat of it might make them have seconds thoughts they don't know if we are bluffing or not!................it s a war for Crist sake and if the west doesn't smarten up the USA and Canada and Western Europe will be no different than what the Israeli's have to deal with everyday.............how long do you think it will be until they are suicide bombing everything here in our own backyard???..............you people don't get it they want to kill us ALL of us........this is not about US policy or support for Israel although the Muslim world often says that... its about.....Islam vs Christianity...at least for the terrorist's it is!...........nobody wants to be in a war.........i am sure those poor bastards trapped in those towers on Sept 11th didn t give a rats ass about Islam or terrorism or anything else other than going to work and taking care of their families.................many of you on here chalk up radical Islam to a few rogue terrorist groups.......well its much more deeper than that...most of Pakistan thinks Osama is a hero......Iran is desperately trying to develop Nuclear weapons...well what do you think they are going to do with those??............not to mention who else are they giving the technology to?? .....hmmmm Al-Qaeda maybe????....you can stick your head in the sand all you want the fact remains they want to kill us all of us and won't stop until they do or we all convert to Islam.........so we better be ready for them or we are all going to be in big trouble!!!

Edited October 11, 2008 by wulf42