McHale running as an Independent in election

[kengs333]

We should be concerned about living up to our legal responsibilities. Other than that - absolutely - it's none of our business!

The way they conduct themselves has a direct negative impact on my society and my country, so don't bloody tell me not be concerned their "business".

ps Are you not aware that dumping stolen cars on reserves is the oldest trick in the book? I have personally met some of Gary McHale's supporters who are engaged in that 'business'.

Yeah, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that many people on Six Nations are theives. I think of that kid last years who was killed when he and his buddy stole an SUV in St. Kitts. Or how many times "Ohsweken" is stated as place of residence for someone convicted of auto theft.

[kengs333]

See above re: "special" relationship.

Brantford has much more crime than Six Nations. Perhaps you should focus your obsessive attention on that community, instead since if could be our business. However, Six Nations is really none of yours or my business - period.

I'm thinking about 75% of members of Six Nations has a criminal record. Drug, alcohol, and violent crime is above average on SN, and Indian communities in general. About 6000 cars were stolen and dumped on SN, which is about one for every two residents. Are you telling me that 62,000 cars were stolen in Brantford last year?

[kengs333]

Nazi or not, you certainly are not above throwing racial slurs around!

But you didn't answer my questions ... Odinism or Wotanism? You and McHale?

take a look at this:

http://odinsvolk.ca/Disclaimer.htm

[tango]

The way they conduct themselves has a direct negative impact on my society and my country, so don't bloody tell me not be concerned their "business".

Yeah, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that many people on Six Nations are theives. I think of that kid last years who was killed when he and his buddy stole an SUV in St. Kitts. Or how many times "Ohsweken" is stated as place of residence for someone convicted of auto theft.

calm down. I'll 'bloody tell you' anything I like. It's a discussion board.

You keep making these racist generalization that are positively sicko.

Petty much a one trick pony, aincha!

Edited October 10, 2008 by tango

[tango]

take a look at this:

http://odinsvolk.ca/Disclaimer.htm

They'll never let you in! They are opposed to racism!

And McHale has proclaimed himself loudly to be a Christian.

Edited October 10, 2008 by tango

[Wild Bill]

Treaties must be honoured if we want to live here in peace. Health care, education, etc. are treaty contracts with Indigenous Nations that allow us to live on their land.

So ... if Canada stops paying what it owes according to lawful treaties, we lose our right to live here.

Capiche?

Treaties for health care and education? Can you provide any concrete, written references to such?

If you intend to make some claim to "oral history" perhaps you could also cite some reference to the Crown providing free health care and education to NON-NATIVES in those pioneer days of treaties! Having taxes pay for health care and education is a very, very recent thing.

[charter.rights]

I'm thinking about 75% of members of Six Nations has a criminal record. Drug, alcohol, and violent crime is above average on SN, and Indian communities in general. About 6000 cars were stolen and dumped on SN, which is about one for every two residents. Are you telling me that 62,000 cars were stolen in Brantford last year?

You have established that your ~thinking~ is convoluted, obtuse and tainted with a bias against First Nations. Six Nations people have a slightly higher crime rate and criminal element than any mainstream community - but still less than Brantford....However, when you consider that the government has criminalized standing up for one's rights, then the actual crime rate drops considerably.

[charter.rights]

Treaties for health care and education? Can you provide any concrete, written references to such?

If you intend to make some claim to "oral history" perhaps you could also cite some reference to the Crown providing free health care and education to NON-NATIVES in those pioneer days of treaties! Having taxes pay for health care and education is a very, very recent thing.

Health care and education are fiduciary responsibilities the government became obligated for after they imposed band governance systems on First Nations, against their will. Had native people been left alone, been allowed to continue to hunt, fish and farm on their lands without interference, raise revenue (that was banned in 1920's along at the same time as the imposition of the Indian Act governance) from their own manufacturing and commercial enterprises, been partners in the resource harvesting that has taken place on their lands since then and been able to continue with their traditional government system it is likely that modern day support for education, health and infrastructure would be unnecessary.

The government and the media continue to assert the myth that band governments HAD to be replaced because they were corrupt and ineffective. But the truth of the matter is that the First Nation traditional governments - especially Six Nations Confederacy councils who were replaced at gunpoint - were an obstacle to the government imposing its will. In particular, Six Nations had been complaining about encroachment on their lands and were threatening to sue the government if there was no action on their grievances. The Canadian government choose instead to remove their Chiefs Council at gunpoint, lock the council house, install a colonial government system AND creates laws that prohibited any First Nation from hiring lawyers or taking any other action against the government for wrong-doing, again against the will of Six Nations people.

About the same time or shortly there after, the government also impose an income tax system and later imposed sales tax system against the rest of us against our will. Yet we simply went along - even though the myth that the income tax system was and is warranted. Once our early 20th century takeover of Six Nations occurred and Six Nations people were prohibited from sell wares or buying goods off reserve, like with the tax system we also silently accepted the responsibility for their perpetual care.

The only way out of this situation is to find a way to get out of their way, restore the treatis and agreements we had with them, and then let them adopt and evolve their own government systems. It is our constant and perpetual interference in their lives and livelihoods that have plunged First Nations reserves into third world conditions. We did because the colonial system is corrupt and greedy and we used the resources and their oppression to advance greed and profit for a few privileged in society. The myth our forefathers believed was that we also somehow benefited and their oppression was somewhat justified in light of the myths that native people were lazy, unskilled and incapable of running their own affairs. To the chagrin of industrial profiteers however, native people were efficient manufacturers and tradespeople but they were not obsessive consumers. Their ability to accept less than normal housing furnishing, clothing and ethereal goods and services irritated the captains of industrial society. The government being a corporation that is charged with supporting other corporations was forced to change the culture to make native people consumers like the rest of us. Yet they continue in large part to resist the consumerism that obsesses us and many are satisfied with a less than average wage.

[charter.rights]

Sorry. One of those timed-out double posts...

Edited October 10, 2008 by charter.rights

[kengs333]

You have established that your ~thinking~ is convoluted, obtuse and tainted with a bias against First Nations. Six Nations people have a slightly higher crime rate and criminal element than any mainstream community - but still less than Brantford....However, when you consider that the government has criminalized standing up for one's rights, then the actual crime rate drops considerably.

So auto theft is "standing up for one's rights"? Let's not forget that Six Nations police let things slide for "cultural reasons" so not all criminality is documented.

I have nothing against aboriginals in general at all, just how Six Nations conducts itself, and other such groups that demand special treatment and disrupt other Canadians' lives. Also, I have a serious issue with aboriginal racists. Racism is a bad thing, not acceptable in Canadian society.

[kengs333]

calm down. I'll 'bloody tell you' anything I like. It's a discussion board.

You keep making these racist generalization that are positively sicko.

Petty much a one trick pony, aincha!

Where have I made "racist generalizations"? Is Six Nations a race? You deny that Six Nations is a race based political entity, but now you claim being critical of Six Nations is "racism".

[kengs333]

They'll never let you in! They are opposed to racism!

And McHale has proclaimed himself loudly to be a Christian.

I'm opposed to racism, as well. Which is why I take issue with Six Nations. I don't think I've ever seen people who are more racist than members of Six Nations. Even you one of their supporters sees everything in terms of red and white.

[AngusThermopyle]

I don't think I've ever seen people who are more racist than members of Six Nations.

I've mentioned before that I have Native friends (token ones I guess). It was one of these friends, a young man, member of the Daychief family (there's a zillion Daychiefs out here) who was telling me that the most racist people he has ever met are his very own people.

Like he said, if a bunch of Bloods are in a bar and some Paigans walk in its instant warfare. Thats why he comes to my place to have a few beers now and avoids the bars. He's just sick of the constant fighting and violence between them.

Keep in mind that this is the attitude that exists between them, members of the same race. Its even worse when it comes to other races. The references to Whitey, Chinks, Pakies and so on are pretty common place and can be seen and heard in everyday life on a pretty constant basis.

Thats why I just laugh when someone who espouses Native issues claims they aren't racist but white people are. Just spend time with these people, it can be a real eye opener.

So please can the tired old hypocritical accusations of white racism, anyone who has actual experience with them can spot the double standard a mile away.

[White Doors]

Treaties must be honoured if we want to live here in peace. Health care, education, etc. are treaty contracts with Indigenous Nations that allow us to live on their land.

So ... if Canada stops paying what it owes according to lawful treaties, we lose our right to live here.

Capiche?

uhh... no.

you are incorrect sir.

[tango]

This thread is a bizarre as McHale himself.

[AngusThermopyle]

This thread is a bizarre as McHale himself.

I have to agree, seldom have I heard such a load of one sided tripe as the Native glee club is laying down in this one.

[charter.rights]

I've mentioned before that I have Native friends (token ones I guess). It was one of these friends, a young man, member of the Daychief family (there's a zillion Daychiefs out here) who was telling me that the most racist people he has ever met are his very own people.

Like he said, if a bunch of Bloods are in a bar and some Paigans walk in its instant warfare. Thats why he comes to my place to have a few beers now and avoids the bars. He's just sick of the constant fighting and violence between them.

Keep in mind that this is the attitude that exists between them, members of the same race. Its even worse when it comes to other races. The references to Whitey, Chinks, Pakies and so on are pretty common place and can be seen and heard in everyday life on a pretty constant basis.

Thats why I just laugh when someone who espouses Native issues claims they aren't racist but white people are. Just spend time with these people, it can be a real eye opener.

So please can the tired old hypocritical accusations of white racism, anyone who has actual experience with them can spot the double standard a mile away.

Bloods and Paigans fighting in a bar isn't racism in any stretch of the imagination. They are the same "race" if you want to get into the semantics. But what I know happens are national rivalries that occur from historical slights...simlar to what has happened over the ages between the Turks and the Greeks, or the Armenians and anyone else......

In all the circles I have sat, among the 1000's of native people I have talked to, smoked their pipes, been invited to their sweats or sat in a bar having a beer or two many, I have never heard ANY native - be it Iroquois, Ojibway, Cree, Algonquin, Inuit or Blackfoot ever make a racist comment as you have implied. In fact the term "whitey" (I noticed you capitalized it...a Freudian slip, I think) is a term I have often heard non-native racists use when talking about their feelings of inferiority in addressing native current events. Even Kengs333 said at one point that the Iroquois had a derogatory term that meant whitey and I challenged him on that. The other derogatory terms that you mention are often common slags I have heard in bars filled with rednecks - especially western ones - when referring to various communities in most major cities.

From the sounds of things I think your Fredian slip says it all and you are transposing your views onto your friend.

From a legal perspective tipping the scale in favour of a minority is not racism, nor special interest. It is necessary to tip the scales in order to restore justice and equity, when minorities have been seriously limited by a law or practice in society. So when there are seeming imbalances that favour natives - such as in the application of arrest procedures and the collection of evidence - it is not racism or specialty that is in play. It is simply justice protected by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Edited October 10, 2008 by charter.rights

[charter.rights]

uhh... no.

you are incorrect sir.

Why? Because YOU say so?

Factually, tango is correct. It is the law and it is supported by rulings of the Supreme Court. We cannot arbitrarily ignore the provisions of treaties, agreements or proclamations just because we don;t like them or they do not benefit us directly. All we can do is to either comply fully or negotiate with First Nations for an better part of the pie...keeping in mind we are in a lesser position once we begin negotiations and they hold the upper hand.

[charter.rights]

I have to agree, seldom have I heard such a load of one sided tripe as the Native glee club is laying down in this one.

Funny thing is I HAVE heard all the tripe spewed here...over and over again...

[kengs333]

Why? Because YOU say so?

Factually, tango is correct. It is the law and it is supported by rulings of the Supreme Court. We cannot arbitrarily ignore the provisions of treaties, agreements or proclamations just because we don;t like them or they do not benefit us directly. All we can do is to either comply fully or negotiate with First Nations for an better part of the pie...keeping in mind we are in a lesser position once we begin negotiations and they hold the upper hand.

But the Supreme Court of Canada is a Canadian court of law, and apparently Indians don't feel that they are bound by Canadian (and Ontario) law when they are arrested for breaking the law. So why do laws that benefit Six Nations have to be respected, while at the same time they don't respect the law or feel themselves bound by it?

[kengs333]

Funny thing is I HAVE heard all the tripe spewed here...over and over again...

Hey were you in Brantford today--was that you on the news for a few seconds?

[AngusThermopyle]

Funny thing is I HAVE heard all the tripe spewed here...over and over again...

I would certainly hope so since its mostly yours.

Quite frankly I find it very hard to believe you've never heard anything racist from a Native. Do you honestly expect us to believe they are some sort of perfect and saintly people? C'mon, get a grip on reality. To try and pass that off as the truth is ludicrous.

They sure are saintly, thats why we have Battle memorial park out here. You know of course, being the expert on all things Native, that this is the location of the slaughter that occurred when the Bloods invited the Cree to a pow wow and promptly slaughtered every one of them, man, woman, and child. That certainly does back up your contention that they are all peace loving cooperative folk doesn't it.

You of course respond with trivialities, such as capitalizing the word Whitey. Whitey refers to a collective group of people, as such it is a proper noun and should be capitalized. Nothing at all to do with any of the semi mumbo jumbo stuff you like to use constantly.

And finally, well to be frank I'm wondering why I'm even wasting time with someone who simply denies anything they don't like to hear. Discussing with someone of that mindset is akin to pissin up a rope.

Have a nice long weekend now.

[kengs333]

Could this be considered racist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek1_v-rzSJY

[Who's Doing What?]

Mitochonrial DNA linking genetics is a sketchy theory. All it proves is that one part of the DNA - a very small bit - connects thousands of people through their characteristics. That is to say that because Queen Elizabeth's DNA contains some 90% similarity to a fruit fly, that she must have descended from a family of fruit flies. It is not accepted wide-ranging science. It is a media hype who have latched on to the sketchy premises and tried to certify it.

The history of the clovis spear tip has nothing to do with DNA.

[kengs333]

So who thinks that McHale is actually going to win this one?