Man Beheaded on Greyhound Bus

[CANADIEN]

There is a difference between dealing with a nutcase that is born here and importing the problem. We have no Choice but to deal with homegrown nutcase's, and I'm sure there is no shortage of them. Given the Choice to import nutcase's or not, I cannot believe anybody is on the yes please side. You have to admit that that is what happened in this case. Assuming you did agree, You must then admit that the problem is in our immigration system. This doesn't mean it is easily fixed, but it does mean the problem exists.

I asked mikedavid how he knew that the man already had mental problems before coming to this country. I don't expect an answer, because it is clear from his postings that what he wants is to exploit a senseless tragedy to engage in widespread attacks on immigrants.

So I'll ask you instead... you KNOW that the man already had mental problems before coming to this country?

[Oleg Bach]

I asked mikedavid how he knew that the man already had mental problems before coming to this country. I don't expect an answer, because it is clear from his postings that what he wants is to exploit a senseless tragedy to engage in widespread attacks on immigrants.

So I'll ask you instead... you KNOW that the man already had mental problems before coming to this country?

So what's wrong with engaging in widespread attacks on immigrants any way? Do we have to fill up every acre of land with more humans - as if this is going to assist in prosperity, stability and peace in the nation? We are NOT benefiting any longer by uping the population..the only ones that are benefiting are a few buisness types...you know the guys that were so disloyal to the old tribe that they are now internationalist betrayers of the nation that gave them wealth and power..I say shut the door - immigration at this point is based on greed and the enrichment of a few who could not spend their wealth in 10 life times......let the super rich be satisfied and let the super poor work on fixing their own pitiful nations that are in a state of rot.

[CANADIEN]

So what's wrong with engaging in widespread attacks on immigrants any way?

What's wrong is using a senseless tragedy as an excuse.

[Canadian Blue]

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/st...4d5&k=75332

How extremist are they? According to this url, they oppose what Stephen Harper opposes...homosexuality and abortion. Perhaps they are simply more honest about their beliefs.

Hold the phone, when did Stephen Harper table a motion making abortion illegal.

By the way they also say "thank god for IED's" and protest the funerals of American military personnel. You're opposed to the war in Iraq, perhaps I should tell you to join them.

A little bit of a low blow, but I figured why the hell not.

MIKEDAVID, don't e-mail the family. The last thing they need is some xenophobe touting off his David Duke like beliefs about how all immigrants are destroying the country. Crazy people come in all shapes and sizes.

[Guest American Woman]

...I have observed such economic-pressure or job-anticipating-frustration complication in some immigrants or those who applied immigrants in internet since I applied Canada immigration. There did have some reckless guys who simply think if they come to a developed country like Canada they will certainlly be guaranteed a good life so they did not do anything to prepare themself for the hardness ahead them. They only know a Canadan dishwasher can get a wage of $8/h, sounds very good to them for they can only get RMB 8 yuan/h in China, but they have nerver considered that a two bedrooms apartment only sells RMB 100,000 in their hometown but $200,000 in some Canadian cities, so when they really come, they have to face reality and feel frustrated. Ironically, these reckless guys usually have less ability to get more money in their hometown so they also have less money to support them to pass the hard initial stage as new immigrants, they may also have less ability to upgrade their profession to qualify a new job demand in a new country. These often make the situation worse. In some extreme situations, it might result in mental illness or anti-social behaviour.

While job frustrations/housing costs very easily could result in stress and depression, I don't think it could result in illnesses such as paranoid schizophrenia. I have addressed this 'problem' before, though, saying I think part of the immigration program/process should include counseling so people know what to expect/what they will have to deal with before they make a move-- or at least before they make a permanent move/apply for citizenship.

I did come across an article written by Mike McIntyre from the Winnipeg Free Press that says: A Winnipeg family that had extensive dealings with Li during his two years spent living in the city told the Free Press on Saturday they believe he was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia. However, he refused to go see a doctor to be diagnosed or prescribed any medication, despite a strong push from the family and members of a local church where he attended and briefly worked as a janitor.

Since apparently Li was granted Canadian citizenship, I have to wonder if family members/church members/etc. are interviewed before citizenship is granted. If not, perhaps they should be, and any concerns such as the possibility that one is suffering from an illness such as paranoid schizophrenia should be addressed before citizenship or residency is granted. It sounds as if some of his actions could have been/should have been cause for concern. I think the three years residency requirement should perhaps be extended to five years like it is in the States, too.

The article also states that McLean's family does not believe the murder was random. Li was initially sitting with an acquaintance of McLean, talking with her, getting off the bus and having a smoke with her, and then got up to go sit with McLean, and proceeded to murder him.

I do think there are questions that need to be answered, and perhaps will help prevent this type of tragedy, as rare as it is, from happening again; because rare or not, when it's you or your loved one involved, that's really no comfort at all.

[bk59]

The article also states that McLean's family does not believe the murder was random. Li was initially sitting with an acquaintance of McLean, talking with her, getting off the bus and having a smoke with her, and then got up to go sit with McLean, and proceeded to murder him.

I had read somewhere online that this part of the story had been discredited. (Sorry, I do not remember where I read it and do not have a link.) But the original version of this story was that the acquaintance was a girlfriend or ex-girlfriend of the victim. In fact, the acquaintance in question was not on the bus at all. Some reports also had McLean and Li arguing after the alleged smoke break with the acquaintance. Again though, the acquaintance was never on the bus.

Unless the story has been updated again. However the only reference I have so far found to this acquaintance was the one that said the story was not true.

[Guest American Woman]

I had read somewhere online that this part of the story had been discredited. (Sorry, I do not remember where I read it and do not have a link.) But the original version of this story was that the acquaintance was a girlfriend or ex-girlfriend of the victim. In fact, the acquaintance in question was not on the bus at all. Some reports also had McLean and Li arguing after the alleged smoke break with the acquaintance. Again though, the acquaintance was never on the bus.

Unless the story has been updated again. However the only reference I have so far found to this acquaintance was the one that said the story was not true.

Thank you for the information-- I appreciate it. I did find a National Post article that does disclaim the account that was evidently told to the Winnipeg press by McLean's friends: Some of Tim McLean's friends are being accused by police of creating a fictional account of what happened on a Greyhound Bus last week in a misguided attempt to explain the circumstances of his slaying.

There was no mention of the concern by some family/friends that Li may have been suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, though, so I'm assuming that part of the article was accurate.

[mikedavid00]

While job frustrations/housing costs very easily could result in stress and depression, I don't think it could result in illnesses such as paranoid schizophrenia.

I just love how you are sugar coating everyting not to 'offend' the sacred prized potential immigrant on the forum.

Xul (middle aged in China with his family waiting for Canadian residency) claims that the reason why his Chinese 'fellow' cut off someones head and chewed on a peice of his cheek is CANADA'S fault.

It's Canada's fault that we did this to him. Because Allah will tell you that the Chinese can do no wrong or harm.

Xul will enter Canada re-uniting with his fellows and not speaking a word of English as I have to look after his family.

Xul. Canada has no jobs. You will come for political reason to keep 1 party elected. That's why you are here.

Please go elsewhere.

I swear to God and on my life I will give you $5000 to revoke your application and not come to Canada. I will do this for real. Please don't come here. The people collectively have not allowed you to come.. only a few have.

You don't know what awaits for you here. This is NOT the USA.

[Guest American Woman]

I just love how you are sugar coating everyting not to 'offend' the sacred prized potential immigrant on the forum.

I'm not "sugar coating" anything; I'm clearly stating my opinion-- nothing more, nothing less. But since you are making it personal, I will say this: no where do I see Xul blaming Canada for this tragedy. Furthermore, from what I've read of his posts, I think he would be an asset to any country he would chose to live in.

[mikedavid00]

I will say this: no where do I see Xul blaming Canada for this tragedy.

Lulz.. I suggest you re-read what he said caused this man to do what he did. You even said it yourself in your response.

I think he would be an asset to any country he would chose to live in.

Good. Then he can go to the US or Australia or the UK and become their problem.

Xul is work-place illiterate. Go read up on it. He does cannot take part in basic business practice here in Canada and there are MILLIONS in Canada that are not employed who are looking for work.

Why on earth should we allow 4 more when we can't even get jobs as Canadians.

Xul keeps that Liberal party of Canada elected due to our corrupt political system. That is why he is coming on our soil. He already knows there are no jobs here.

He's coming for... well.. 'other reasons'.

Edited August 12, 2008 by mikedavid00

[guyser]

Xul is work-place illiterate.

Quoted for posterity md00.

Hmm...lets see....you said he is a work place illiterate and then posted this..

He does cannot take part in basic business practice here in Canada ...

What language is that md00?

Speaking of illiterates. Well there is more you posted md00

Like this...

chewed on a peice of his cheek is CANADA'S fault.

Speaking of illiterates....oh I bet there is more from you...

Because Allah will tell you that the Chinese can do no wrong or harm.

There were no spelling mistakes , only inanities. Allah/Chinese ?

But hey, we are on a roll arent we.....

Xul will enter Canada re-uniting with his fellows and not speaking a word of English as I have to look after his family

I suspect when he is with his "fellows" he will speak Mandarin or some other dialect (you will have to look that word up md00) but as Xul has shown on MLW, he can write the language far better than you can.

Ouch, sucks that your employer ,when you get one that is, might fire you and hire Xul since his grasp of the english language, his second language to boot, is far superior to yours.

But yeah, you go on and make a complete ass out of yourself.

I swear to God and on my life I will give you $5000 to revoke your application

You can't afford to pay attention, let alone 5G's

You know mikey, you are so pathetically jealous of immigrants. They leave the land they know and were born in, and for the most part, come to Canada and enjoy life, buy a house, raise their kids. And you? You sit around bitching about them.

Why on earth should we allow 4 more when we can't even get jobs as Canadians.

Because the 4 coming in are employable and you are a fat lazy bugger who cant vote because it was raining. Not to mention your gargantuan ignorance.....such as

Xul keeps that Liberal party of Canada elected due to our corrupt political system

CPC has been in power for a couple of years md00. Wake up, turn off "Flavor Flav Baby" and try and find a job

In the meantime, Xul, come on over, we need more like you. By any chance can China take md00 in a trade?

Sit back an smile, the dunce cap suits you well. Is it fun to be thought of as stupid and ignorant?

You do both so well.

[capricorn]

Why on earth should we allow 4 more when we can't even get jobs as Canadians.

You're stuck in a 50s mentality. You were born too late.

[mikedavid00]

You're stuck in a 50s mentality. You were born too late.

It's not about a mentality, it's about numbers. The numbers don't support him wandering out of the airport: something only Canada practices.

The Polish guy who got tasered was a convicted criminal and also had mental issues. The low of the low are entering the country.

You live in my home town. I was there when all of a sudden we had this epedimic of welfare indolents loitering the streets. They were called Somalians at that time. Estimated over 90% on welfare. Simply contributing nothing. Crime rates rising. Our then noble city councilours asking the feds to do something and saying they were bankrupting our social services. Indeed they did.

But man oh man. Could they get out there and ensure the Liberals and NDP got in power. Oh yes.

And that's ultimately why Guyser (a card carrying member of the Liberal party) supports these card carrying citizens of Canada.

I guess they both carry Libearl cards so they have something in common.

A perminent residence card and Liberal party card of Canada are the very same thing. Why don't you just admit that they aren't needed, but they are certainly needed to keep your party in power.

Why is that every sing riding that had a high immigrant population or visible minority population over 20% voted Liberal in teh last election when they basically stold 100's of millions of tax payers money which is the largest theft ever in the first world?

Why is that?

And for what it's worth, i've been employed for a long time now and have over half my money taken away so we can fund these people coming over. No one is pro immigration that I have met. No one. Even the most soft on it do not feel they should be entitled to use our healthcare system.

[M.Dancer]

It's not about a mentality, it's about numbers. The numbers don't support him wandering out of the airport: something only Canada practices.

The Polish guy who got tasered was a convicted criminal and also had mental issues. The low of the low are entering the country.

You live in my home town. I was there when all of a sudden we had this epedimic (sic) of welfare indolents(sic) loitering the streets. They were called Somalians at that time. Estimated over 90% on welfare. Simply contributing nothing. Crime rates rising. Our then noble city councilours (sic)asking the feds to do something and saying they were bankrupting our social services. Indeed they did.

But man oh man. Could they get out there and ensure the Liberals and NDP got in power. Oh yes.

And that's ultimately why Guyser (a card carrying member of the Liberal party) (stupid)supports these card carrying citizens of Canada.

I guess they both carry Libearl (sic)cards so they have something in common.

A perminent (SIC) residence card and Liberal party card of Canada are the very same thing. Why don't you just admit that they aren't needed, but they are certainly needed to keep your party in power.

Why is that every sing riding that had a high immigrant population or visible minority population over 20% voted Liberal in teh last election when they basically stold 100's of millions of tax payers money which is the largest theft ever in the first world?

Why is that?

And for what it's worth, i've been employed for a long time now and have over half my money taken away so we can fund these people coming over. No one is pro immigration that I have met. No one. Even the most soft on it do not feel they should be entitled to use our healthcare system.

Leran to spel

[jbg]

I don't think his nationality results in his crime or insanity. I refered his nationality because someone asked if he could be sent back China (for reducing Canadian taxpayer's burden or let him face a death penalty? I'm not sure).

****************

I have observed such economic-pressure or job-anticipating-frustration complication in some immigrants or those who applied immigrants in internet since I applied Canada immigration. There did have some reckless guys who simply think if they come to a developed country like Canada they will certainlly be guaranteed a good life so they did not do anything to prepare themself for the hardness ahead them.

There was a crime. Someone was brutally killed. What does his ethnicity have to do with this?

This should not be an immigrant-bashing or pro-immigration thread. There is absolutely no indication that race hatred motivated the crime. Let's bring the debate to where it belongs.

[CANADIEN]

Xul (middle aged in China with his family waiting for Canadian residency) claims that the reason why his Chinese 'fellow' cut off someones head and chewed on a peice of his cheek is CANADA'S fault.

Let's not get confused here. YOU are the one who has blamed Canada, or more exactly the immigration system, for a senseless tragedy, Bad ebough that you bring immigrant-bashing to new low (to propose writing to the famiily of the victim to tell them the immigration system is to blame... cannot be a lot more disgusting like that).

[CANADIEN]

Lulz.. I suggest you re-read what he said caused this man to do what he did. You even said it yourself in your response.

And it is exactly from reading it - instead of interpreting through anti-immigrant filters that most of us don't think he's blaming Canada.

[CANADIEN]

In the meantime, Xul, come on over, we need more like you. By any chance can China take md00 in a trade?

You hate China that much?

[bk59]

But man oh man. Could they get out there and ensure the Liberals and NDP got in power. Oh yes.

Wait, the NDP are in power now? Gotta give the NDP credit. Jack Layton became Prime Minister without even having an election.

[CANADIEN]

Wait, the NDP are in power now? Gotta give the NDP credit. Jack Layton became Prime Minister without even having an election.

And the NDP is so cluueless they don't even know it.

[guyser]

You hate China that much?

No not at all. But when md00 moves there he will no doubt complain about the govt of China and they have ways to keep him quiet.

Oh, and raining or not he cant vote. That alone should make him comfortable.

[guyser]

You live in my home town. I was there when all of a sudden we had this epedimic of welfare indolents loitering the streets. They were called Somalians at that time. Estimated over 90% on welfare. Simply contributing nothing. Crime rates rising. Our then noble city councilours asking the feds to do something and saying they were bankrupting our social services. Indeed they did.

I live here too. Dont recall the scenario you paint, but then again, not much truth in anything you post.

And that's ultimately why Guyser (a card carrying member of the Liberal party) supports these card carrying citizens of Canada.

I guess they both carry Libearl cards so they have something in common.

I am? Funny, never recall cutting a cheque to the Libs, never canvassed for them, never done anything to help get them elected other than voted for them at times, but not the last election for sure.

A perminent residence card and Liberal party card of Canada are the very same thing. Why don't you just admit that they aren't needed, but they are certainly needed to keep your party in power.

Hmm, cool, so one could show his Liberal card and get a free pass into this country? Shh.. dont want to many to know about this.

Why is that every sing riding that had a high immigrant population or visible minority population over 20% voted Liberal in teh last election when they basically stold 100's of millions of tax payers money which is the largest theft ever in the first world?

Why is that?

Since it is not true , and you were shown the proof months ago your question is moot.

Why do you perpetuate myths....why is that?

And for what it's worth, i've been employed for a long time now and have over half my money taken away so we can fund these people coming over. No one is pro immigration that I have met. No one. Even the most soft on it do not feel they should be entitled to use our healthcare system.

#1, half your money is not taken away.

#2, if you hang around bigotted idiots as you surely must do, then of course they agree with you.

#3, your idiot friends can't comprehend that the immigrants pay taxes and therefore are allowed the use of services in this country.

[bk59]

I am? Funny, never recall cutting a cheque to the Libs, never canvassed for them, never done anything to help get them elected other than voted for them at times, but not the last election for sure.

Are you sure? Maybe you canvassed for the Liberals at the same time that the NDP came to power. A lot of weird stuff was apparently happening in that "election".

[Canadian Blue]

I just love how you are sugar coating everyting not to 'offend' the sacred prized potential immigrant on the forum.

Xul (middle aged in China with his family waiting for Canadian residency) claims that the reason why his Chinese 'fellow' cut off someones head and chewed on a peice of his cheek is CANADA'S fault.

It's Canada's fault that we did this to him. Because Allah will tell you that the Chinese can do no wrong or harm.

Xul will enter Canada re-uniting with his fellows and not speaking a word of English as I have to look after his family.

Xul. Canada has no jobs. You will come for political reason to keep 1 party elected. That's why you are here.

Please go elsewhere.

I swear to God and on my life I will give you $5000 to revoke your application and not come to Canada. I will do this for real. Please don't come here. The people collectively have not allowed you to come.. only a few have.

You don't know what awaits for you here. This is NOT the USA.

I never realized Li was a follower of Islam, it's news to me.

By the way the majority of people don't mind immigrants, only a minority.

[Canadian Blue]

You live in my home town. I was there when all of a sudden we had this epedimic of welfare indolents loitering the streets. They were called Somalians at that time.

I believe Somalia is a nationality.

Estimated over 90% on welfare. Simply contributing nothing. Crime rates rising. Our then noble city councilours asking the feds to do something and saying they were bankrupting our social services. Indeed they did.

Are you talking about Toronto, as well for some reason I doubt you have any way to back up that 90% figure. This is seen in the fact that most of your arguments are based on piffle.

But man oh man. Could they get out there and ensure the Liberals and NDP got in power. Oh yes.

Even here in Alberta where we have had large migrations to the province and city we have seen minorities being elected as Conservatives. Oddly enough I don't recall either the provincial PC's or the Federal Conservatives as being a whites only party.

A perminent residence card and Liberal party card of Canada are the very same thing. Why don't you just admit that they aren't needed, but they are certainly needed to keep your party in power.

They are needed considering the declining birth rate. They do fill jobs, and for the most part are productive in Canadian society. The only problem is that some people such as yourself are scared shitless of them and thus feel the need to expound xenophobia all the time.

Why is that every sing riding that had a high immigrant population or visible minority population over 20% voted Liberal in teh last election when they basically stold 100's of millions of tax payers money which is the largest theft ever in the first world?

Is this another statistic which you can't back up.

And for what it's worth, i've been employed for a long time now and have over half my money taken away so we can fund these people coming over. No one is pro immigration that I have met.

Well it's hard to meet a pro-immigrant person in a group of xenophobes and bigots.