Multiculturism is a huge failure

Melanie_ · April 16, 2008

Welcome to the forum, Qwerty, but you may find yourself in for a bumpy ride with comments like this...

I honestly cannot wait until Islamists start blowing things up here in Canada.

You're sitting at your keyboard, gleefully anticipating disaster on your fellow Canadians? Whose the terrorist now?

In 13 neighbourhoods deemed "at-risk" in Toronto by United Way, more than half have significant Muslim populations, including Flemingdon Park, Regent Park, Etobicoke North and Jane-Finch. "Every year, we see more and more poor people coming to the mosque for help," said Omar Farouk, president of the International Muslims Organization, based in Etobicoke, which has opened a food bank and distributes food to shelters once a month. More than 200 people regularly access the food bank.

If half of the 13 "at risk" neighbourhoods have significant Muslim populations (what constitutes "significant"?), what is the population mix of the other half?

Also from your link...

"It's not about settlement; it's about systemic barriers in the system. We are receiving well-educated people. They are ... engineers and doctors, but they are still doing dishes, or driving cabs."
But many don't even get those menial jobs. In a 2005 Canadian Labour Congress study on Racial Status and Employment Incomes, Arab and West-Asian visible minorities had the highest overall unemployment rate at 14 per cent.There are internal barriers within the community too. There is an obvious divide between the haves and have-nots, the second-generation Muslims and the new arrivals who have little interaction with each other outside of "Friday prayers at the mosque."

So it sounds like the second generation Muslims are the haves, who have integrated into the system. That seems like a multicultural success story. And if 14% of these visible minorities are unemployed, that means that 86% are working in Canada. Not a bad number for people who are trying to figure out a new country, with new rules and laws, different expectations, and weather they have never dreamed possible.

Qwerty · April 16, 2008

If that what it takes to start a revolution and wake people up then I'm for it. Not you liberals...no. I'm talking of the silent majority.

11 facing Terrorism charges and the group in the UK that planned to blow up Air Canada flights...our time is coming.

I want and Canada should want immigrants that will integrate and be grateful we are allowing them into this fine country and not want to change it. If Canada isn't to thier liking why don't they go someplace else instead of trying to change everything. Regardless of race, creed or colour.

That is changing in Europe now. Slowly the Left wing governments are being voted out now. They are starting to wake up from the dream. Especially in the Netherlands and Denmark.

Well not only that but we cannot exactly round up and deport the ones that are already here can we. So we have to change their minds and persuade them to integrate and embrace Canada.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Qwerty

Melanie_ · April 16, 2008

If that what it takes to start a revolution and wake people up then I'm for it. Not you liberals...no. I'm talking of the silent majority.
11 facing Terrorism charges and the group in the UK that planned to blow up Air Canada flights...our time is coming.

I'm assuming you're for it as long as you and your loved ones aren't the victims.

Qwerty · April 16, 2008

I'm assuming you're for it as long as you and your loved ones aren't the victims.

To be honest I'm not for it at all. I'm being overly dramatic. I would be upset to see anyone get hurt by this hatred.

I just don't understand how people cannot see the very obvious threat these people pose and why no one is doing anything about it.

It's like they are under a spell.

In the Netherlands they have over 1 million muslims now and mosques are starting to get burned down and violence towards muslims is proliferating all over Europe. We are heading down the same road I'm sure.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Qwerty

Melanie_ · April 17, 2008

To be honest I'm not for it at all. I'm being overly dramatic. I would be upset to see anyone get hurt by this hatred.
I just don't understand how people cannot see the very obvious threat these people pose and why no one is doing anything about it.

It's like they are under a spell.

In the Netherlands they have over 1 million muslims now and mosques are starting to get burned down and violence towards muslims is proliferating all over Europe. We are heading down the same road I'm sure.

But who is burning down the mosques? Are you saying that violence towards Muslims is a good reason to deny them entry into a country? This is an example of blaming the victim.

If there are other reasons why you feel Muslims shouldn't be granted entry into the Netherlands, fine. I just don't see the reason you're giving as being valid.

Qwerty · April 17, 2008

But who is burning down the mosques? Are you saying that violence towards Muslims is a good reason to deny them entry into a country? This is an example of blaming the victim.
If there are other reasons why you feel Muslims shouldn't be granted entry into the Netherlands, fine. I just don't see the reason you're giving as being valid.

It just seems wherever muslims settle, trouble soon follows. As witnesses in NYC, in London, in Madrid at the various embassies.

Once the muslim population gets to 10% or up of the total population in any given country, trouble begins.

Canada will not be immune to this either and to think otherwise seems awfully naive.

guyser · April 17, 2008

Once the muslim population gets to 10% or up of the total population in any given country, trouble begins.
Canada will not be immune to this either and to think otherwise seems awfully naive.

How many muslims have emigrated to Canada? Are we close to 10%, is it 5%?

Qwerty · April 17, 2008

How many muslims have emigrated to Canada? Are we close to 10%, is it 5%?

They are sitting at 944,000 currently. They are saying it will go up by 160% by 2017. Those numbers will likely go up if immigration trends continue plus there birthrate is very high.

Drea · April 17, 2008

They are sitting at 944,000 currently. They are saying it will go up by 160% by 2017. Those numbers will likely go up if immigration trends continue plus there birthrate is very high.

Can't be! The nasty buggers abort 50% of their fetuses (the female ones).

guyser · April 17, 2008

They are sitting at 944,000 currently. They are saying it will go up by 160% by 2017. Those numbers will likely go up if immigration trends continue plus there birthrate is very high.

Perhaps you could show a link, or a cite for those numbers?

The last census has it as " 2001 census, there were 579,640 Muslims in Canada" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Canada

or

Stats Canada, last modified January 2005.

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo30b.htm

So.....an official census says 579,000 and you say 70% higher than the census people.

M.Dancer · April 17, 2008

How many muslims have emigrated to Canada? Are we close to 10%, is it 5%?

Muslim 1.9%

According to a reliable CIA source...about 631,041....but again, that's from a realible source.

Theyare saying thise numbers could go up 567325% by 2011....or at least that's what they are say....

M.Dancer · April 17, 2008

Perhaps you could show a link, or a cite for those numbers?
The last census has it as " 2001 census, there were 579,640 Muslims in Canada" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Canada

or

Stats Canada, last modified January 2005.

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo30b.htm

So.....an official census says 579,000 and you say 70% higher than the census people.

Oh...you prefer reliable sources too?

Qwerty · April 17, 2008

Oh...you prefer reliable sources too?

Yeah you're right wiki says in 2006 it is around 800,000 so a couple more years we must be close to 900,000.

The 944,000 number is from the Netherlands, my apologies, I am posting on more then one forum at a time.

M.Dancer · April 17, 2008

Yeah you're right wiki says in 2006 it is around 800,000 so a couple more years we must be close to 900,000.
The 944,000 number is from the Netherlands, my apologies, I am posting on more then one forum at a time.

no..wiki says 579,640 ....but I can see how you can make a 400,0000 error

Qwerty · April 17, 2008

no..wiki says 579,640 ....but I can see how you can make a 400,0000 error

You are stating that number from 2001. The one I am stating is from 2006.

Preliminary estimates for Census 2006 point to a figure of almost 800,000. [17] The community is expected to grow to 1.1 million by 2011 and 1.4 million by 2017.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Canada

Edited April 17, 2008 by Qwerty

guyser · April 17, 2008

You are stating that number from 2001. The one I am stating is from 2006.
Preliminary estimates for Census 2006 point to a figure of almost 800,000. [17] The community is expected to grow to 1.1 million by 2011 and 1.4 million by 2017.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Canada

OK, now where do the majority live?

Who , or rather what city has the highest concentration of Muslims in North America.

Lastly, is that city been in any danger, percieved or otherwise, has there been bombings, mass beheadings...or..?

Qwerty · April 17, 2008

OK, now where do the majority live?
Who , or rather what city has the highest concentration of Muslims in North America.

Lastly, is that city been in any danger, percieved or otherwise, has there been bombings, mass beheadings...or..?

It is going to happen. Not if but when.

Every single non traditional muslim country they have populated has had problems with them. That is fact.

What makes you think that Canada will escape the trouble?

Edited April 17, 2008 by Qwerty

guyser · April 17, 2008

What makes you think that Canada will escape the trouble?

I didnt say we would escape the trouble. There are bound to be some nuts in the salad. You should worry more about domestic bombers than muslims.

You want a scape goat and you found one. It doesnt have to make sense to anyone else , just you. If you are satisfied you are right , in light of overwhelming evidence you are not , then you are the one not sleeping at night all worried and whatnot. Kind of like our ex-poster-scary muslim hater....who lived so far in the sticks I doubt a muslim could find it with a map a gps and an Inuit hunter.

Sleep well...I do. Asalam allakam

Canadian Blue · April 17, 2008

It just seems wherever muslims settle, trouble soon follows. As witnesses in NYC, in London, in Madrid at the various embassies.

Not really, unfortunately the facts do not bode well for your argument. The terrorists were in the US on student visas and did not make New York their home.

By the way, most people do agree that Islamo-fascism is a problem. But to debate it is impossible if you argue that all Muslims are terrorists in waiting, that simply won't fly in any country.

Qwerty · April 17, 2008

I didnt say we would escape the trouble. There are bound to be some nuts in the salad. You should worry more about domestic bombers than muslims.
You want a scape goat and you found one. It doesnt have to make sense to anyone else , just you. If you are satisfied you are right , in light of overwhelming evidence you are not , then you are the one not sleeping at night all worried and whatnot. Kind of like our ex-poster-scary muslim hater....who lived so far in the sticks I doubt a muslim could find it with a map a gps and an Inuit hunter.

Sleep well...I do. Asalam allakam

The evidence is overwhelming

NYC, London, Madrid, Murdered Author in the Netherlands, death threats against the Netherlander who made the film Fitna, death threats against a Danish cartoonist, Riots in France, Riots in England, bombings of countless embassies and ships. These are heads of state making these threats btw.

I don't know how many threats were stopped before they could blow up whatever....The Toronto TSE, a few Air Canada jets, other US planes...the first WTC bombing....and the list goes on.

Yeah what was I thinking these people are very peaceful...

Edited April 17, 2008 by Qwerty

Shakeyhands · April 17, 2008

Sorry.... I still haven't seen how the concept of MultiCulturalism has failed?

Qwerty · April 17, 2008

Canada was one of the first nations in the world to officially adopt a policy of multiculturalism, but at the same time Canada has been notoriously unable to achieve national unity through the assertion of a cultural identity.

In turn, this has led to the demand for special recognition and for special exemption from the law because of such issues as race, ethnicity, and gender. According to Schlesinger (1992), Canada has failed to make multiculturalism work because, unlike America, it has failed "to give ethnically diverse peoples compelling reasons to see themselves as part of the same nation"

(p. While Kymlicka (1996) insists that the special treatment given to minorities in the name of cultural retention do not contradict the liberal values of individual freedom and equality for all. In Canada, for example, the establishment of the Constitution Act in 1982 has resulted in many people identifying themselves more with others exactly like themselves than with national culture as a whole. oup rights in an effort to promote cultural retention in immigrant populations.

It is, however, a major weakness of his argument that he completely fails to explain how individual rights can be acceptably linked to group rights. The special recognitions and exemptions � such as Sikh Mounties not having to wear the same hat as other Mounties � is what is meant by cultural retention.

In order for the conflicts and potential chaos of multicultural programs of cultural retention to be avoided or resolved the only hope seems to be assimilation, but without a national culture or identity Canada has failed in most cases at assimilating newcomers. The recent shift away from multiculturalism that Joppke (2004) notes does not imply a return to the traditional liberal policy of assimilation, but it does recognize the need for newcomers to commit themselves unconditionally to a minimum of liberal democratic principles.

http://www.megaessays.com/viewpaper/29094.html

Edited April 17, 2008 by Qwerty

M.Dancer · April 17, 2008

deleted

Edited April 17, 2008 by M.Dancer

Argus · April 17, 2008

An online straw poll? Are you serious? Might as well go to the stormfront site and ask their opinion of Estonian opera...

Why bring in Stormfront? This is a globe and mail poll of attitudes regarding immigration and visible minorities, but apparently the PC types feel any mention of such things is akin to Nazism.

Argus · April 17, 2008

Most self defeating argument ever. Muslims hate Canada, look at all of those social services they provide.

Is THAT all you get from that information? Did it even cause you to wonder why there would be any correlation between Muslims and poverty in Canada?

The correlation in the world is fairly clearly documented, btw. Muslim countries tend to be poverty stricken countries, with the notable exception of a few oil sheikdoms. And unlike other third world countries no discernable progress appears to have been made in Muslim countries over the past thirty years. Many are poorer than they have ever been, and all have terrible education rates.