Aboriginal Self-Government

[Slim MacSquinty]

Many probably don't even realize that the Indian Act created segments of aboriginal people...off reserve, non-treaty, non-status, Bill C-31, who pay taxes like everybody else. The whole tax thing is a wash in gray and creates attitudes like Borg. What is boils down too, if a company, or, business was on reserve it would be tax-free. Gas and cigarettes are tax-free! All the other stuff regarding tax is BS. All the laws were written in the late 1800s when the boat people of Europe arrived and settled this country with aboriginals helping them when they got here.

These laws are still in effect today. Self-government has become a general term as well and to me it is the elimnation of the huge bureacracy called Indian Affairs--which employs mostly non-aboriginal people in cities like Vancouver and Edmonton. Get rid of the DIA and you'll be eliminating all those jobs that feed of the DIA budget and the indians don't see that l money anyways...if the indians have it so good on the reserve then why don't people like Borg create a Federal Department of Non-ABoriginal Affairs and give himself all the so-called benefits?

Certainly we all must agree that DIA has proved to be a failure for any number of reasons, as a white man I will not accept that natives in this country were treated poorly with a negative result as the intended outcome, but certainly paternalistic and in retrospect doomed to failure. Like the road to hell, the native situation is probably paved with good intentions, poorly executed. So slinging mud in each direction is not going to get anyone anywhere. There exists innumerable examples of barbaric treatment of nationalities throughout history, some of which continue to this day, many considerably worse than the treatment of natives in Canada, many canadians are here as a result of escape from slavery and/or genocide.

If self governement gets rid of DIA then I'm all for it, however I think self government has to be offered with some conditions; whatever charter/ law or decree which enacts self governement must be universally applied across the country, it must insist that natives retain Canadian citizenship and the rights and obligations which come with it, and be subordinate to federal law. The self government model should have numerous limitations which which still will allow numerous areas of provincial and federal jurisdiction to be enforced (things like provincial highways, federal communications, coast guard, customs etc.) Finally by accepting the terms and financial or land considerations they must abandon all land claims.

With any luck this could put an end to this debate.

[Dog]

I'm not trying to fool anyone.

The facts are the facts. I would hazard a guess that you have had nothing to do with F/N other than to pass by them on the street.

And you would be wrong again since i have done work for the Mnjikaning as recently as last summer . You however appear to be a fraud and at best are unable to back up the statements you make .

[netters]

My suggestion is to take the time to read the series of articles written in the National Post "Rethinking the Reserves"

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/re...erve/index.html

It's covers everything from the success to the failures, from Indian Affairs, First Nations, self-government, and accountability.

[Carinthia]

And you would be wrong again since i have done work for the Mnjikaning as recently as last summer . You however appear to be a fraud and at best are unable to back up the statements you make .

I am well known in my area, which is very small. Call me what you want but it won't make any difference. I speak from my own observations of what I see with the F/N Bands in my area.

What was the nature of your work for the Mnjikaning? If you don't mind my asking.

[Dog]

I am well known in my area, which is very small. Call me what you want but it won't make any difference. I speak from my own observations of what I see with the F/N Bands in my area.

What was the nature of your work for the Mnjikaning? If you don't mind my asking.

You have some nerve to ask the specific nature of my work with the Mnjikaning after refusing to even answer basic questions of what Bands you are refering to . However i wont dodge the question like you since i am quite proud of the work i have done . I am a contractor that specializes in naturalizing and regeneration of stream and river beds amongst other things .

The Mnjikaning being one of the wealthiest Bands in Canada have built a large subdivision to the north of the casino that abuts a stream bed and a burial grounds that my firm restored . Working with everyone from Mike Mitchell , Lorraine McRae to local residents i think i have a pretty good grasp of what is going on .

Unless you are willing to be a little more forth coming in your replies i think i am pretty much done with you as i see you and people like you as part of the problem and not part of the solution .

[Carinthia]

You have some nerve to ask the specific nature of my work with the Mnjikaning after refusing to even answer basic questions of what Bands you are refering to .

And you have some nerve asking me to tell you where I live, which is what I would have to do. If you think that F/N are living the Canadian dream and I am full of s***, then it's you who has a problem and yes, please do me a favour and be done with me.

Edited March 21, 2008 by Carinthia

[Dog]

QUOTE(Carinthia @ Mar 20 2008, 09:05 PM)

I am well known in my area, which is very small. Call me what you want but it won't make any difference. I speak from my own observations of what I see with the F/N Bands in my area.

What was the nature of your work for the Mnjikaning? If you don't mind my asking.

You have some nerve to ask the specific nature of my work with the Mnjikaning after refusing to even answer basic questions of what Bands you are refering to . However i wont dodge the question like you since i am quite proud of the work i have done . I am a contractor that specializes in naturalizing and regeneration of stream and river beds amongst other things .

The Mnjikaning being one of the wealthiest Bands in Canada have built a large subdivision to the north of the casino that abuts a stream bed and a burial grounds that my firm restored . Working with everyone from Mike Mitchell , Lorraine McRae to local residents i think i have a pretty good grasp of what is going on .

Unless you are willing to be a little more forth coming in your replies i think i am pretty much done with you as i see you and people like you as part of the problem and not part of the solution .

Sorry but i am not going to let you hide behind a sentence . you are a fraud and you can never be taken seriously on here . now go back to DU or the Daily Kos

Edited March 21, 2008 by Dog

[Carinthia]

QUOTE(Carinthia @ Mar 20 2008, 09:05 PM)

now go back to DU or the Daily Kos

Since I don't recall that you have been designated as a mod, I ain't goin nowhere. I suggest you put me on your ignore list. Frankly, the thought of your eyes landing on my posts, gives me the creeps.

[Borg]

Puck:

Ask the Aboriginals / First Nations about Self Governemnt.

You'll learn more from them than here.

As shown by the response from "borg" you'll receive uninformed rhetoric, very biased opinions, outright ignorance and a general disdain for anything Aboriginal.

I would vist - http://www.degiyagoh.net/remember_haudenosaunee.htm

(Ten Important Points to Remember About the Haudenosaunee:

We exist as distinct peoples in the 20th century. The Haudenosaunee are unique in that we maintain one of the very few traditional governments in North America, free from the oppression of the Bureau of Indian Affairs and free from the lunacy of tribal elections. Our leaders are selected according to the oldest constitutional democratic systems.) This would only cover a fraction of the numerous different First Nations within Canada.

Hope you paper trail goes well.

I see the truth hurts - perhaps better, it is either ignored or twisted to be seen as "rhetoric"

You are not part of the solution with your attitude - you and your types are actually the problem.

Borg

[Borg]

Well Borg is an example of the kind of attitude out there--probably the majority which is sad...that's a huge problem that many don't even see. Ignorance on the issue has probably wasted billions and billions of taxpayers dollars. Many probably don't even realize that the Indian Act created segments of aboriginal people...off reserve, non-treaty, non-status, Bill C-31, who pay taxes like everybody else. The whole tax thing is a wash in gray and creates attitudes like Borg. What is boils down too, if a company, or, business was on reserve it would be tax-free. Gas and cigarettes are tax-free! All the other stuff regarding tax is BS. All the laws were written in the late 1800s when the boat people of Europe arrived and settled this country with aboriginals helping them when they got here.

These laws are still in effect today. Self-government has become a general term as well and to me it is the elimnation of the huge bureacracy called Indian Affairs--which employs mostly non-aboriginal people in cities like Vancouver and Edmonton. Get rid of the DIA and you'll be eliminating all those jobs that feed of the DIA budget and the indians don't see that l money anyways...if the indians have it so good on the reserve then why don't people like Borg create a Federal Department of Non-ABoriginal Affairs and give himself all the so-called benefits?

Ah poor danger mouse. You want me to soap it up a bit? That way when the corrupt leaders you have now gain even more power - it will not hurt so much when they ram it up your ass.

However your comments on indian affairs the reserve system are well taken - but that means you will have to become self sufficient and your people will have to stop sucking the tax payers tit.

It will not be easy but it can be done.

If you truly want change it has to start from within - NOT from the outside.

Borg

[Who's Doing What?]

Puck:

Here are a few "Truths" I have learned from a few former native posters on this site.

1. They believe every inch of Canada belongs to them. From Vancouver Island to Newfoundland.

2. They don't belive Canadian laws should apply to them.

3. They are willing to resort to violence to achieve their goals. I was told that if/when they come for my family's land they would shoot me on site or simply starve me out of my home if I would not give it up.

4. They blame the "White man" for everything wrong while driving "our" vehicles and wearing "our" clothes while they live comfortably in "our" homes.

Here are a few "truths" I know.

1. Over the last few decades the Canadian Govt. has bent over backwards to try and do what they can for the natives of this country.

2. Billions of tax dollars are spent every year to provide services for the reservations.

3. The laws of Canada are biased, because a person who is native has more rights and freedoms than a non-native.

4. Natives have cost Ontario millions of dollars while they occupy land that if it was any other group would have been simply arrested enmass and taken away.

5. Police in some areas are afraid to go onto reserves even though they are aware of crime.

6. Native groups are suing the govt for hundreds of millions for land they say is still theirs.

[charter.rights]

Puck:

Here are a few "Truths" I have learned from a few former native posters on this site.

1. They believe every inch of Canada belongs to them. From Vancouver Island to Newfoundland.

2. They don't belive Canadian laws should apply to them.

3. They are willing to resort to violence to achieve their goals. I was told that if/when they come for my family's land they would shoot me on site or simply starve me out of my home if I would not give it up.

4. They blame the "White man" for everything wrong while driving "our" vehicles and wearing "our" clothes while they live comfortably in "our" homes.

Here are a few "truths" I know.

1. Over the last few decades the Canadian Govt. has bent over backwards to try and do what they can for the natives of this country.

2. Billions of tax dollars are spent every year to provide services for the reservations.

3. The laws of Canada are biased, because a person who is native has more rights and freedoms than a non-native.

4. Natives have cost Ontario millions of dollars while they occupy land that if it was any other group would have been simply arrested enmass and taken away.

5. Police in some areas are afraid to go onto reserves even though they are aware of crime.

6. Native groups are suing the govt for hundreds of millions for land they say is still theirs.

Let's dispel a few of those "myth" that keep you from seeing "truth".

1. All of Canadian territory with the exception of a few token settlements that existed in 1763 are subject to aboriginal claim UNLESS the Crown can prove that there was a treaty of valid cede. That isn't a belief of native people. It is Supreme Law as defined by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

2. Unless Canada can prove that native peoples by treaty of other means became Canadian citizens then their pre-existing right of self-government still applies. In many cases this requires some negotiation with the Crown to determine the extent of that governance and where Canadian law fits int with theres. In the case of Six Nations which seems to be the subject of much malice and fear, they insist they have never given up their sovereignty even after the Canadian government invaded their council house and imposed our form of government on them. They claim to have proof that the Confederacy Government has existed without interruption. However, by way of court case and the fact that many native people are in our prisons there is an acknowledgment that Canadian laws apply to them.

3. In order to defend democracy and freedom, sometimes violence is necessary, wouldn't you agree? Otherwise our place is Afghanistan is an abhorrent crime....As you your assertion that you were threatened here on this forum, I demand that you provide a link since I would believe that the moderators would have taken action on it. I call B.S.

4. Natives AFAIK don't blame the "whiteman" for their oppression and genocide. They blame "colonial imperialism" whichi continues to displace them and ignore their rights as human beings and hand their land and resources over to corporations. Clothes and cars never belonged to "white people" nor was much of the technology ever invented by Caucasians. More likely the clothes you are wearing and the car you drive is the result of Asian innovation and creation. However, most of the foods you eat came from our contact with the natives. Pre-contact Europeans had little more than cabbages and peas to eat before they came here.

As for your other make beliefs:

1.&2. Canada has a fiduciary responsibility for First Nations. They are legally required to provide services for native people under treaty interpretations for those that claim independence and as citizens for those who claim to be Canadian. First Nations do not receive "billions of dollars" that is budgeted by INAC. Most of the money never reaches native people and is gobbled up by INAC budgets, programs and employees. That which does reach the reserve level is often too little to fund the basic needs of the community.

3. The "laws" of Canada treaty every equal. The Supreme Law, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms protect the rights of people from oppression because of their background. Aboriginal rights that are protected in the Charter prevent lawmakers from prescribing or enforcing laws that reduce those pre-existing rights, or those rights acquired by treaty agreements. And just like relions ar protected from laws that target them, aboriginal people cannot be subjugated because of who they are.

4. The occupations and stand off that have occurred in Ontario are the result of years of inaction by the governments of Canada and Ontario to properly consult and accommodate First Nation's over aboriginal rights and land rights BEFORE development. If there is someone to blame the government of Ontario and Canada responsible for the escalating costs of the dispute. Had they properly consulted (and they continue to ignore those rights) there would not have been any need for the natives across Ontario (or Canada) to have taken action to defend their rights. We're talking about legal rights too. Not some petty feelings of Canadians who are smart enough to figure it out.

5. In Ontario at least, I know that the OPP patrol 90% of the reserves and those reserves with their own police forces depend on the OPP for mutual aid calls. Again, I call B.S.

6. Native groups aren't suing since the government developed the Specific Lands Claims process which is meant to address hundreds of outstanding land claims. Those which fall out of the SLC process are dealt with by negotiation that will find settlements based on the historical relationships between the First Nation and the Crown.

[DangerMouse]

Right on charter! You nailed it! The government in reality is breaking the law...a fact that many people do not see because the massmedia always make the natives look bad. Borg also stated "while they live in our homes!" Holy smokes that myth was generally dispelled in the early 90s in the Reform Party days! Where've you been? The homes on reserve are not owned by the people who live in them and therefore have no collateral. What are you complaining about? You get to use collateral on your home so you can go to the bank and buy all your toys and comouflage clothes to play, and do what the indians were doing before your ancestors got here--hunt and fish. Historically you got "free-land" and a "free-country" where the natives helped your ancestors move here, and after they settled them in, the "backstabbers booted them onto" reserves, after they wiped most of them out with your diseases. Be grateful Borg

[Drea]

Where does the money to build houses on reserves come from? The government.

Where does the government get the money from? The taxpayer.

So yah, you are living in a house paid for by others. That is why you have no respect for it or for yourself.

It is a proven fact that if a person does not work for something (have a vested interest in it) he will not take care of it. This is fact. Just drive through any reserve and see how rundown the homes are... then drive through any "other" area (where people have worked and pay for their homes) and see how they are maintained.

Just like a story I heard a while back... a wealthy man had bought his sons each an expensive car... one son wrecked his and the father was asking "should I buy him another one?"

What do you think the father should do? Buy another one for the son who wrecked his?

[Carinthia]

This is fact. Just drive through any reserve and see how rundown the homes are... then drive through any "other" area (where people have worked and pay for their homes) and see how they are maintained.

I've seen reserves, (believe it if you want) and have seen homes that are taken care of. I've also seen lots that aren't.

In my town there are homes that are taken care of and some that aren't. A good 99% of us who live here are white and as we are a one resource town, all are working.

In the big cities in Canada, you see many more houses owned by white folks that are run down. White slum landlords, couldn't care less what the place looks like, as long as they rake in the rent.

[AngusThermopyle]

massmedia always make the natives look bad.

I've found quite the opposite to be the case, the media tends to romanticize Natives.

You get to use collateral on your home so you can go to the bank and buy all your toys and comouflage clothes to play, and do what the indians were doing before your ancestors got here--hunt and fish.

Why shouldn't a person who has worked hard and steady use the fruits of their labours to their own benefit? As for hunting and fishing, do you believe that only Natives have ever done this? Do you believe that Europeans never hunted or fished before coming to North America?

where the natives helped your ancestors move here

Can you show me something to prove that Natives helped Europeans to move here? Did they send across a bunch of Mayflower moving canoes and load them up for the settlers?

Edited March 24, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[WIP]

I have no idea how these claims can be settled to everyone's satisfaction in this day and age. The native activists are ignoring the obvious fact that for all of their grievances, they were living a stone-age existence when those evil Europeans arrived and started developing the land. Now that modern cities are built on the land, how much do we owe for land that was never developed? Certainly not the billiions of dollars being demanded now!

[DangerMouse]

Where does the money to build houses on reserves come from? The government.

Where does the government get the money from? The taxpayer.

So yah, you are living in a house paid for by others. That is why you have no respect for it or for yourself.

It is a proven fact that if a person does not work for something (have a vested interest in it) he will not take care of it. This is fact. Just drive through any reserve and see how rundown the homes are... then drive through any "other" area (where people have worked and pay for their homes) and see how they are maintained.

Just like a story I heard a while back... a wealthy man had bought his sons each an expensive car... one son wrecked his and the father was asking "should I buy him another one?"

What do you think the father should do? Buy another one for the son who wrecked his?

And without the land the government or the taxpayer would have "diddly-squat." And that's what it boils down to is the land....what you complaining about you got free land and a free-country so you can have your tax money and the government can have land to govern. I know many non-natives who live in pig-sties...that's what i mean--people like you believe everything you see and read in the mass media. As for the wealthy man--he probably bought another car just so his son won't walk or ride transit just like the indians

[charter.rights]

I have no idea how these claims can be settled to everyone's satisfaction in this day and age. The native activists are ignoring the obvious fact that for all of their grievances, they were living a stone-age existence when those evil Europeans arrived and started developing the land. Now that modern cities are built on the land, how much do we owe for land that was never developed? Certainly not the billiions of dollars being demanded now!

Herein lies the problem:

"The native activists are ignoring the obvious fact that for all of their grievances, they were living a stone-age existence when those evil Europeans arrived and started developing the land."

This kind of ignorance automatically defeats your argument. The FACT is that Native people had complex democratic government systems, advance agricultural practices and were far advanced of the ignorant, uneducated refugees that escaped here from oppressive monarchies, aristocracies and oligarchies of 16th and 17th century Europe. Most of the Europeans only bathed once a year while personal hygiene was a daily occurrence among the natives. And while it is true that natives did not have iron production, archeology has proven that natives were smelting metals about 2000 years before the practice developed in Europe. It is a fact that Native people didn't need the implements made by smelters that heavily contaminated the earth and choked the air with soot.

First Nations people were traders, developers and merchants long before Europeans arrived.

The British made deals with the natives and had they paid up when the deals were made and properly managed the trusts that were part of the deals we would not be in the predicament tht we are in. The fact remains that WE OWE natives for those fair and reasonable agreements and the Supreme Court has ruled that compounded interest is now required to be paid WITH the original consideration. Unfortunately, $15,000 in 1800 dollars now amounts to over $1 billion and since the original amounts agree upon were well over hundreds of millions of dollars, we are on the hook for well over $1 trillion. Our only hope is to be able to either negotiate for a lessor amount in exchange for some other consideration, or arrange a payment plan that will span over centuries. The difficulty is that our position in negotiations is starting at a deficit and natives hold the upper hand.

[DangerMouse]

I've found quite the opposite to be the case, the media tends to romanticize Natives.

Why shouldn't a person who has worked hard and steady use the fruits of their labours to their own benefit? As for hunting and fishing, do you believe that only Natives have ever done this? Do you believe that Europeans never hunted or fished before coming to North America?

Can you show me something to prove that Natives helped Europeans to move here? Did they send across a bunch of Mayflower moving canoes and load them up for the settlers?

Well you sort of see the point--you have collateral! Native houses can't get you that same "privilege." As for hunting and fishing, maybe the Europeans hunted rabbits but they get to call it sports and recreation over here yet when a native uses another technology they are called assimilated. Aren't those so-called sportman assimilated as indians? Considering this, the aboriginal culture is alive and well in canada you assimilated european you

As for your last question, you may have heard of one incident when some "European Boat People" were stuck in the ice on the St Lawerence--they would've died if it was not for the Huron Natives who gave them nourishment through a tonic that they made from shrubs, roots, berries etc. It was later found out that the newcomers lacked Vitamin C and had it not been for the Huron the newcomers would've perished and you wouldn't be here to complain. Later on, before they set sail again from Europe, they loaded down their ships with lemons and limes to avoid the Vitamin C deficiency and also, avoid telling the people back home that a bunch of indians saved their butts. You can guess the origin of the nickname certain Europeans received after that

[AngusThermopyle]

that's what i mean--people like you believe everything you see and read in the mass media.

With that single sweeping and generalized statement you have just lost all credibility. How do you know what that person is like? You don't, so you make a farcical generalized statement and post it as an unassailable fact. Can you show me how the previous poster is "people like you"? Just what exactly is a "people like you"?

As for believing anything. It has been my experience that Native Activists and those infatuated with the Native myth will believe just about anything so long as it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Hence the origin of such ridiculous claims as, Natives evolved in North America, the white man never invented anything, etc, etc. I prefer to look at things with skepticism until shown some proof, that is, proof not based on some "oral tradition" which can be manipulated or changed as proves to be most expeditious to some agenda or cause.

Later on, before they set sail again from Europe, they loaded down their ships with lemons and limes to avoid the Vitamin C deficiency and also, avoid telling the people back home that a bunch of indians saved their butts. You can guess the origin of the nickname certain Europeans received after that wink.gif

Actually this is interesting in that it is partially correct. It was the French who were iced in and the Natives did give them a drink to combat scurvy. It wasn't the British. Treatment for scurvy is actually recorded back in the early 12 hundreds. Limey is a recent name in this story. The British started using Limes because they were easy to preserve on long voyages. They never had too many problems with scurvy at the point in time you refer to. Previously they had used (believe it or not) Turnips, yep, Turnips. I guess Turnippies just didn't have the ring to it that Limeys has.

In 1614 John Woodall (Surgeon General of the East India Company) published his book "The Surgion's Mate" as a handbook for apprentice surgeons aboard the company's ships. In it he described scurvy as resulting from a dietary deficiency. His recommendation for its cure was fresh food or, if not available, oranges, lemons, limes and tamarinds, or as a last resort, Oil of Vitriol (sulfuric acid).[5]

A quick Wikipedia search will show that the disease was known about long before North America was even dreamed of. Cures were also known, the problem was the perishable nature of the foods needed to treat it. Hippocrates is generally credited with being the first person to describe it as a disease that could be treated.

I only mention this because I was a sailor from a family of sailors that goes back a long long way. As such I've always had an interest in Naval history.

Edited March 24, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[DangerMouse]

With that single sweeping and generalized statement you have just lost all credibility. How do you know what that person is like? You don't, so you make a farcical generalized statement and post it as an unassailable fact. Can you show me how the previous poster is "people like you"? Just what exactly is a "people like you"?... Hence the origin of such ridiculous claims as, Natives evolved in North America, the white man never invented anything, etc, etc. I prefer to look at things with skepticism until shown some proof, that is, proof not based on some "oral tradition" which can be manipulated or changed as proves to be most expeditious to some agenda or cause...

Angus, aren't the natives subject to "sweeping generalizations" all the time? Not all natives are alike as I stated in a previous post, there were many off-reserve, non-status, Bill C 31 natives who worked hard for everything and were subject to taxes etc. How do you think they feel when "un-informed' , whitey with a bozo-brain" light-bulb, make the accusations that all natives have a free-ride?

As for oral traditions, you can slam it all you want but at least they have a tradition to be proud of. Please give an example instead of making one "sweeping generalization" of how they've adjusted oral history to accomodate present needs?

Although science has it's positives, it is unfortunate there has to be fatheads involved. Why are they spending money on trying to prove that natives came from the Old World?Isn't that fabricated BS at it's best? They can try and try to prove otherwise but it still won't change the fact that aboriginal people were here at the time of contact...in other words they really were the first people to North America.

[charter.rights]

I believe I read somewhere a way's back that 80% of First Nation people lived off reserve in urban centres. That would make a statement that "natives don't pay taxes" patently false.

[Who's Doing What?]

Let's dispel a few of those "myth" that keep you from seeing "truth".

1. All of Canadian territory with the exception of a few token settlements that existed in 1763 are subject to aboriginal claim UNLESS the Crown can prove that there was a treaty of valid cede. That isn't a belief of native people. It is Supreme Law as defined by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Thank you for proving my point. Nativer feel they own and are entitled to the entire country. Pathetic.

2. Unless Canada can prove that native peoples by treaty of other means became Canadian citizens then their pre-existing right of self-government still applies. In many cases this requires some negotiation with the Crown to determine the extent of that governance and where Canadian law fits int with theres. In the case of Six Nations which seems to be the subject of much malice and fear, they insist they have never given up their sovereignty even after the Canadian government invaded their council house and imposed our form of government on them. They claim to have proof that the Confederacy Government has existed without interruption. However, by way of court case and the fact that many native people are in our prisons there is an acknowledgment that Canadian laws apply to them.

I have nothing against self government. Just lose the idea the rest of the damn country owes you something.

3. In order to defend democracy and freedom, sometimes violence is necessary, wouldn't you agree? Otherwise our place is Afghanistan is an abhorrent crime....As you your assertion that you were threatened here on this forum, I demand that you provide a link since I would believe that the moderators would have taken action on it. I call B.S.

They did take action. Perhaps not on what was said to me directly but the posters were removed after only a short stay. as for a link, yuou can waste your own time searching through site. I believe it is in Provincial Potlitics.

4. Natives AFAIK don't blame the "whiteman" for their oppression and genocide. They blame "colonial imperialism" whichi continues to displace them and ignore their rights as human beings and hand their land and resources over to corporations. Clothes and cars never belonged to "white people" nor was much of the technology ever invented by Caucasians. More likely the clothes you are wearing and the car you drive is the result of Asian innovation and creation. However, most of the foods you eat came from our contact with the natives. Pre-contact Europeans had little more than cabbages and peas to eat before they came here.

As for your other make beliefs:

BS. I have heard the natives talk about the "whiteman" so don't give me any of your garbage. ANd yes, it is "White-man" technology, if you are so upset about our society then go and live in a bloody tipi and hunt with your bow and arrow. Quit sucking tax dollars out of my pocket and then tell me how terrible this country is to you.

1.&2. Canada has a fiduciary responsibility for First Nations. They are legally required to provide services for native people under treaty interpretations for those that claim independence and as citizens for those who claim to be Canadian. First Nations do not receive "billions of dollars" that is budgeted by INAC. Most of the money never reaches native people and is gobbled up by INAC budgets, programs and employees. That which does reach the reserve level is often too little to fund the basic needs of the community.

Hmmmm.... programs which are put in place on the reserves. Employees who are there to service natives, and budgets which spend all their money on only native innitiatives. Education grants no one esle is entitled to. Tax free status. C'mon, wake up.

3. The "laws" of Canada treaty every equal. The Supreme Law, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms protect the rights of people from oppression because of their background. Aboriginal rights that are protected in the Charter prevent lawmakers from prescribing or enforcing laws that reduce those pre-existing rights, or those rights acquired by treaty agreements. And just like relions ar protected from laws that target them, aboriginal people cannot be subjugated because of who they are.

The laws are not equal. A native can fish and hunt when I would get arrested. How the hell is that equal? See you yourself call them "pre-existing rights". If they had rights before everyoneelse, how is that equality?

4. The occupations and stand off that have occurred in Ontario are the result of years of inaction by the governments of Canada and Ontario to properly consult and accommodate First Nation's over aboriginal rights and land rights BEFORE development. If there is someone to blame the government of Ontario and Canada responsible for the escalating costs of the dispute. Had they properly consulted (and they continue to ignore those rights) there would not have been any need for the natives across Ontario (or Canada) to have taken action to defend their rights. We're talking about legal rights too. Not some petty feelings of Canadians who are smart enough to figure it out.

They are a group of militants who are using violent occupation to further a political agenda.

5. In Ontario at least, I know that the OPP patrol 90% of the reserves and those reserves with their own police forces depend on the OPP for mutual aid calls. Again, I call B.S.

Call BS all you want, doesn't change the fact it is true. I have heard first hand details of natives blocking access to a reserve during a police pursuit. I talked to one of the guys in the car being chased. The cops stopped at the edge of the reserve and would not enter.

6. Native groups aren't suing since the government developed the Specific Lands Claims process which is meant to address hundreds of outstanding land claims. Those which fall out of the SLC process are dealt with by negotiation that will find settlements based on the historical relationships between the First Nation and the Crown.

Really? So the lawsuit my acquaintance has been telling me about for years, that he is spearheading, is just a figment of his imagination.

[DangerMouse]

WDW...who claimed 100% of the country for free in 1867? Pathetic. Without the land or the resources you wouldn't have tax money....simple as that...so quit whining about something you should be grateful for...if you don't like it here...jump on your boat and go back to Europe. It's not your technology...it was the guy who invented it! I find it interesting how you won't accept certain actions of your ancestors--murder, rape, child molestation, arson, all that negative stuff, but for something like technology you'll say our "whiteman technology" from the past--how convenient--your argumenst are feable.

You still missed the point that many non-aboriginals spend that huge DIA budget and that many aboriginal people are tax-payers that do not live on reserves. Your argument about hunting and fishing, the only thing I can say is why do lightbulb thinkers like you give natives heck over the laws that were written by whiteman? That's pretty dozy! What are you on? GO smoke another one, or really look at all the fine details before you blabber your yap off on a childlike rant So yes, yo and your buddy are just figments of your imagination