I am proud to be white!

[PoliAgno]

Jefferiah,

No..if you reread my post I said that I dont neccessarily think it is pointless and silly to say that you are proud to be anything...provided that you understand you would be equally as proud to be whatever race(s) you were born, no matter what they happened to be ....and provided that you understand that any other race might feel the same pride for the race(s) they are born into, simply because they were born into them and have knowlege and thus appreciation for their race(s).

Edited January 27, 2008 by PoliAgno

[jefferiah]

Jefferiah,

No..if you reread my post I said that I dont neccessarily think it is pointless and silly to say that you are proud to be anything...provided that you understand you would be equally as proud to be whatever race(s) you were born, no matter what they happened to be ....and provided that you understand that any other race might feel the same pride for the race(s) they are born into, simply because they were born into them and have knowlege and thus appreciation for their race(s).

So then basically you would say it is ok for Archangel to be proud of being white?

[PoliAgno]

So then basically you would say it is ok for Archangel to be proud of being white?

There seems to be a bit of hate behind her reasons, almost as though she was using it as a form of revenge.

[jefferiah]

There seems to be a bit of hate behind her reasons, almost as though she was using it as a form of revenge.

No she never said that at all. In fact she said she had nothing against other races. She did say however that she did grow up under the impression that white people are bad, and now this pride is in spite of that thinking. The same way black pride might exist in spite off Cybercoma's adversity, her's is in spite of the idea that white people are evil racist snobs. That makes a lot of sense to me. I don't get the sense that she is really "proud" to be white, but proud in the sense that she is certainly not ashamed of it, and that she does not owe anyone anything because of it.

Edited January 27, 2008 by jefferiah

[jbg]

Im sick of the double standards and am proud to be white.

The term "white" embraces a huge variety of religions and cultures. I would be proud of being a hard worker and educated (if that's indeed true). We don't need to combat reverse racism with old-fashioned race hatred.

[jbg]

There seems to be a bit of hate behind her reasons, almost as though she was using it as a form of revenge.

The fact that she dropped that post bomb on this board and isn't back to defend or debate is telling. I'd have more respect for her views if she wasn't a "seagull", i.e. someone who drops a load and then flies away.

[PoliAgno]

No she never said that at all. In fact she said she had nothing against other races. She did say however that she did grow up under the impression that white people are bad, and now this pride is in spite of that thinking. The same way black pride might exist in spite off Cybercoma's adversity, her's is in spite of the idea that white people are evil racist snobs. That makes a lot of sense to me. I don't get the sense that she is really "proud" to be white, but proud in the sense that she is certainly not ashamed of it, and that she does not owe anyone anything because of it.

I stand corrected.

[Guest American Woman]

Have you been paying attention to what's been going on lately? It's looking like the Democratic party is going to be ripped apart by the hostility between Clinton and Obama. It's getting rather ugly, and I would be surprised if by the end of it, people get so fed up with it that Edwards comes out the winner.

That's exactly what I'm hoping will happen. !

[Guest American Woman]

Hi, I'm not sure if you could call me a white nationalist or not. Perhaps I should start by saying I USED to be the biggest anti, PC, liberal girl there was. I used to daydream about being anything but white,- black, Asian, Native Indian you name it.

Here we have a "little white girl" who used to "dream" of "being anything but white." Yeah, right.

She claims she has nothing against other races as she goes on about all the nasty things people from other races have said/done on other web boards. No links. Just rants and accusations. She talks about them "rambling on" on other boards as she rambles on about them here. Seems rather odd to me.

And of course the "non-whites" are "crapping on us whites." Poor, poor us. And if we are proud of our heritage we are "nazis." That's a post with an agenda if ever there was one. She manages to cut down a few races based on some unsourced messages on pther web boards-- as she claims to not judge others based on their race.

PoliAgno hit the mail on the head. There is definitely a "bit of hate" behind her reasoning. One doesn't talk about "sickening garbage written about us" (nothing to back that up), about how a "native Indian" said natives "don't have any work ethics" and are "proud of it" (again, nothing to back that up), about how one "hates" that minorities have scholarships but "if we did that it would be racism," etc., without feeling a bit of hate. Her whole post is hate-filled imo. If one wants to feel pride in their culture/heritage, they should be able to do it without going on a rampage against other races/cultures.

[Who's Doing What?]

I don't need to back it up, you know just as well as I do that there are plenty of clubs dominated by white people that blacks would not feel welcome around. Aside, most black clubs are open to people of any race, they just choose not to show up.

Seriously?

"Not feel welcome around" is a far cry from "Not allowed to join."

"Most Black Clubs" you say. So you are admitting that there are Blacks-only clubs in existance?

Edited January 27, 2008 by Who's Doing What?

[Who's Doing What?]

Here we have a "little white girl" who used to "dream" of "being anything but white." Yeah, right.

She claims she has nothing against other races as she goes on about all the nasty things people from other races have said/done on other web boards. No links. Just rants and accusations. She talks about them "rambling on" on other boards as she rambles on about them here. Seems rather odd to me.

And of course the "non-whites" are "crapping on us whites." Poor, poor us. And if we are proud of our heritage we are "nazis." That's a post with an agenda if ever there was one. She manages to cut down a few races based on some unsourced messages on pther web boards-- as she claims to not judge others based on their race.

PoliAgno hit the mail on the head. There is definitely a "bit of hate" behind her reasoning. One doesn't talk about "sickening garbage written about us" (nothing to back that up), about how a "native Indian" said natives "don't have any work ethics" and are "proud of it" (again, nothing to back that up), about how one "hates" that minorities have scholarships but "if we did that it would be racism," etc., without feeling a bit of hate. Her whole post is hate-filled imo. If one wants to feel pride in their culture/heritage, they should be able to do it without going on a rampage against other races/cultures.

SO just how would you suggest someone of caucasian persuasion demonstrate their their pride in being "white"?

I feel the same, that if I am showing "white pride" then I am lumped in with the neo-nazi's and KKK. We have been told for years now that the White man was evil, the white man destroyed other cultures, that the white man is to blame for all that is wrong in the word today. Hitler and his demented dream of an arian race only made things worse. Unfortunately the only ones who do stand up for "whitey " are often the last people we need to be at the front of the line. They are the bigots and racists. They are those who lynched blacks for fun, and wear pillow cases on thier heads. They are the ones who tattoo themselves with swastika's and wear jack boots and spread hate. It is because of these people that the entire idea of "white pride" is perverted.

I think everyone should be given an equal opportunity to succeed. Education and job programs that automatically disqualify me because I am white are just as rediculous as having "whites only" public fountains or making african americans sit at the back of the bus.

A.W. I guess you weren't around when we had a few "warriors" on this site. What was in the OP sounds very similar to what was being said on these boards. I have no doubt that on a site where "warriors" are in the majority those things, and probably worse, were said. I was told they would starve me out of my home and kill me on site to achieve their goals, which was to take my land back from my family. But hey if you want to defend them that is your business.

[PoliAgno]

Here we have a "little white girl" who used to "dream" of "being anything but white." Yeah, right.

Oh really? What's this mean? Is it too far fetched to believe that anyone would ever dream of being non-white? Hmmm....maybe the finger needs to be pointed right back in your face?

[Guest American Woman]

SO just how would you suggest someone of caucasian persuasion demonstrate their their pride in being "white"?

The same way one demonstrates their pride in anything; by being proud of their accomplishments, not by rallying against/putting down others.

I feel the same, that if I am showing "white pride" then I am lumped in with the neo-nazi's and KKK.

How are you showing that "white pride?" The same way arch angel did?-- by cutting down other races? I don't have to cut down other families to be proud of my own, and by the same token, I don't have to cut down other races/heritages to be proud of mine.

We have been told for years now that the White man was evil, the white man destroyed other cultures, that the white man is to blame for all that is wrong in the word today.

In many ways "white man" was evil, and did destroy other cultures. That's not to say that the white man is to blame for all that is wrong in the world today-- it's recognizing the wrong that was done.

Hitler and his demented dream of an arian race only made things worse.

I don't think Hitler has anything to do with any of it. He was deranged and not in any way shape or form representing "the white man." We were, in fact, fighting against Hitler.

Unfortunately the only ones who do stand up for "whitey " are often the last people we need to be at the front of the line. They are the bigots and racists. They are those who lynched blacks for fun, and wear pillow cases on thier heads. They are the ones who tattoo themselves with swastika's and wear jack boots and spread hate. It is because of these people that the entire idea of "white pride" is perverted.

I can't argue that a lot of that goes on. But seriously, I don't understand this need for "white pride." I agree with a lot of what Cybercoma has said in that regard. Why do we, who haven't been downtrodden as a race, need to express "white pride?" What have we overcome as a race to be proud of? For the most part, I consider myself fortunate that I haven't had to deal with some of the things other races/cultures have.

I think everyone should be given an equal opportunity to succeed. Education and job programs that automatically disqualify me because I am white are just as rediculous as having "whites only" public fountains or making african americans sit at the back of the bus.

That's what AA programs aim to do-- give everyone an equal opportunity to succeed. If some education and job opportunites disqualify you, that is no different other education and job programs disqualifing others. You don't like being disqualified, they didn't like being disqualified.

A.W. I guess you weren't around when we had a few "warriors" on this site. What was in the OP sounds very similar to what was being said on these boards. I have no doubt that on a site where "warriors" are in the majority those things, and probably worse, were said. I was told they would starve me out of my home and kill me on site to achieve their goals, which was to take my land back from my family. But hey if you want to defend them that is your business.

How can you possibly get that I'm defending people who aren't even here out of what I said? I'm not "defending" anyone. My response was in regards to what Archangel said, not what some people who aren't even here supposidly said.

Edited January 28, 2008 by American Woman

[Guest American Woman]

Oh really? What's this mean? Is it too far fetched to believe that anyone would ever dream of being non-white?

The meaning is quite clear. It's one thing to dream of being non-white, it's quite another to "dream of being anything but white" -- especially in light of the rest of Archangel's post, which is what my response was in regards to.

[jefferiah]

The fact that she dropped that post bomb on this board and isn't back to defend or debate is telling. I'd have more respect for her views if she wasn't a "seagull", i.e. someone who drops a load and then flies away.

Aye, now that is a good point JBG, but she only dropped this bomb yesterday, and some people do not frequent the boards as much as you or I. So I'd say the jury is still out.

[jefferiah]

PoliAgno hit the mail on the head. There is definitely a "bit of hate" behind her reasoning. One doesn't talk about "sickening garbage written about us" (nothing to back that up), about how a "native Indian" said natives "don't have any work ethics" and are "proud of it" (again, nothing to back that up), about how one "hates" that minorities have scholarships but "if we did that it would be racism," etc., without feeling a bit of hate. Her whole post is hate-filled imo. If one wants to feel pride in their culture/heritage, they should be able to do it without going on a rampage against other races/cultures.

Although this does nothing to clear her name either, it certainly does not muddy it in my opinion. She gave examples of certain people from other races who did these things. Including the native person who she claims made this quote. She does not say all natives are this way. She just says that racist mindsets do exist in other races. I know for one, that arguing on political chats on IRC I have heard people make the claim that only whites can be racist. To point out that someone could say this is not spreading hatred.

I sense frustration and anger in her post yes, but she clearly goes out of her way to say that she has nothing against other races. In my experience, these hard-core racists usually have no scruples about saying whether or not they believe other races are inferior. So as far as I know she is only angry and frustrated about this attitude that whites are the bad guy.

Edited January 28, 2008 by jefferiah

[Guest American Woman]

Although this does nothing to clear her name either, it certainly does not muddy it in my opinion. She gave examples of certain people from other races who did these things. Including the native person who she claims made this quote. She does not say all natives are this way. She just says that racist mindsets do exist in other races. I know for one, that arguing on political chats on IRC I have heard people make the claim that only whites can be racist. To point out that someone could say this is not spreading hatred.

She gave examples with absolutely nothing to back up her claims. So she has a native Indian saying all native Americans/First Nation people are that way. How handy is that? Simply claim a Native American said all Native Americans don't have work ethics and are proud of it-- rather than say it yourself. Furthermore, why would anyone get upset over something one Native American said? That doesn't even make sense, unless you're attributing the attitude to at least a good part of the whole group.

I sense frustration and anger in her post yes, but she clearly goes out of her way to say that she has nothing against other races. In my experience, these hard-core racists usually have no scruples about saying whether or not they believe other races are inferior. So as far as I know she is only angry and frustrated about this attitude that whites are the bad guy.

First of all, I never claimed she was a "hard core racist." I never even used the word "racist" in regards to her. I said I sensed "a bit of hate in her reasoning," and I do. That's hardly saying she's a racist, much less a hard-core racist.

But I have to say, I've encountered plenty of people who claim not to be racist, who go out of their way to say they aren't, and then go on to be racist in their words and attitude.

I agree that non-whites can be racist; they can be racist against whites or other non-white races. I've never said otherwise. I don't think recognizing that is spreading hatred, nor did I so much as insinuate that I think it is. I do, however, think Archangel's reasoning is based on "a bit of hatred," and I gave examples why.

[capricorn]

As I read over this thread, I realized that I had never given a second thought to the fact I was "white" until Affirmative Action became a factor in employment in the late 70s. Since those days I have increasingly felt that I was part of a group that for one reason or another was less "desirable" than other groups. The feelings I have developed about my skin colour is also a product of the implementation of multiculturalism in Canada. I am left with the feeling that somehow, other ethnic groups with different skin colour command more value in our society.

Most Canadians are not racist. IMO the racist label applies more appropriately to government institutions and policies at all levels that have created divisions among the different ethnicities found within our population. These divisions gave rise to a multitude of special interest groups formed along ethnic lines. As a result, the group that screams the loudest gets the most attention. As someone commented earlier, there are few "white" interest groups. Actually I am personally not aware of any that are taken seriously.

[bush_cheney2004]

...As someone commented earlier, there are few "white" interest groups. Actually I am personally not aware of any that are taken seriously.

The special interest groups would just respond that the privilege existed and still exists without the "white" label, so systematic and institutionalized are the preferences and behaviors. Technically, "white" is the absence of color.

[jefferiah]

She gave examples with absolutely nothing to back up her claims.

How do most people back up personal experiences like that?

I don't find her claims so unbelievable. I have heard alot of similar ones myself.

And how does failing to back up that claim indicate increased hatred? She only implicated individual people not an entire race.

[jefferiah]

She gave examples with absolutely nothing to back up her claims. So she has a native Indian saying all native Americans/First Nation people are that way. How handy is that? Simply claim a Native American said all Native Americans don't have work ethics and are proud of it-- rather than say it yourself. Furthermore, why would anyone get upset over something one Native American said?

You would get upset because of that attitude. When I read that I did not take it as all native americans feel this way. Perhaps you are right. But I don't think she sounded hateful. Pissed off, perhaps. Let's just allow her a day or two to come back. If not we will dismiss her as a troll dropping a bomb like JBG says.

Edited January 28, 2008 by jefferiah

[kengs333]

In many ways "white man" was evil, and did destroy other cultures. That's not to say that the white man is to blame for all that is wrong in the world today-- it's recognizing the wrong that was done.

So in other words, "whites" have behaved just like any other race; pre-conquest Indian cultures absorbed surrounding cultures and then went into decline and fragmented; this is something that has gone on in the world for millenia. The only difference is that "whites" advanced far enough where they could document their history and study it and subject it to criticism like no other culture has managed to do.

That said, I'm half inclined to think that this "new" member simply dropped this bomb to see what reactions it would engender; perhaps in an effort to smoke out people "she" believes are "white nationalists". Now who's been using this term alot recently and for some reason hasn't been posting on this thread...?

Edited January 28, 2008 by kengs333

[jbg]

Aye, now that is a good point JBG, but she only dropped this bomb yesterday, and some people do not frequent the boards as much as you or I. So I'd say the jury is still out.

From the writing it's clear she's familiar with bulletin board techniques. She had to know this post would be controversial. I have another term for this - trolling.

[charter.rights]

So in other words, "whites" have behaved just like any other race; pre-conquest Indian cultures absorbed surrounding cultures and then went into decline and fragmented; this is something that has gone on in the world for millenia. The only difference is that "whites" advanced far enough where they could document their history and study it and subject it to criticism like no other culture has managed to do.

That said, I'm half inclined to think that this "new" member simply dropped this bomb to see what reactions it would engender; perhaps in an effort to smoke out people "she" believes are "white nationalists". Now who's been using this term alot recently and for some reason hasn't been posting on this thread...?

MOST whites still haven't advanced as far as most natives societies. Emphasis on the accumulation of wealth - especially where is originates in the theft of land or resources - doesn't fit my definition of success. Rather it reaches into the immoral prerogative of a corrupt society.

[kengs333]

MOST whites still haven't advanced as far as most natives societies. Emphasis on the accumulation of wealth - especially where is originates in the theft of land or resources - doesn't fit my definition of success. Rather it reaches into the immoral prerogative of a corrupt society.

Sorry, what was that? "Haven't advanced as far as most native societies."? Who fills your naive mind with such nonsense? History clearly demonstrates who was and still is more advanced than the other. Moreover, the arrival of Europeans was exploited by the Indians in an attempt to increase wealth and power; unfortunately, the kinds of things that denoted status in Indian cultures happened to be things like beads and other shiney objects, which meant that Europeans could attain truly valuable items/materials for a mere pitance.