Hezbollah, PKK and American Hypocrisy

[kuzadd]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18644.htm

Fifteen months ago, the armed wing of Lebanon’s Hezbollah party, listed as a terrorist organization by the United States and most other Western countries, attacked Israel’s northern border, capturing two Israeli soldiers and killing eight more. Israel replied with a month of massive air attacks all across Lebanon that destroyed much of the country’s infrastructure, leveled a good deal of south Beirut, and killed around a thousand Lebanese civilians.

>>>>>>

So what would be a reasonable and proportionate Turkish response to the recent attacks by the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), listed as a terrorist organization by the United States and most other Western countries, from northern Iraq into southeastern Turkey? More than forty Turkish civilians and soldiers have been killed in these attacks over the past two weeks, and a further eight Turkish soldiers were captured.

Well, it would be unreasonable for Turkey to bomb Iraq, where the PKK’s bases are, for any more than one month. It would be quite disproportionate for the Turkish Air Force to level more than a small part of Baghdad — say, 15,000 homes. Ideally, it should leave Baghdad alone and restrict itself to destroying some Kurdish-populated city in northern Iraq near Turkey’s own border. Moreover, when the Turks do invade Iraq on the ground, they should restrict themselves to the northern border strip where the PKK’s bases are.

What’s that? Washington is asking Turkey to show restraint and not attack Iraq at all? Even after the Kurdish terrorists killed or kidnapped all those Turkish people? Could it be that Turkish lives are worth less than Israeli lives?

I see it is that old double standard, as Dyer notes also but hey what the heck else is new, but wait, it get's even more twisted!

There is a parallel terrorist organization called the Party for Free Life in Kurdistan (PJAK), essentially a branch office of the PKK, also based in northern Iraq, which carries out attacks into the adjacent Kurdish-populated region of Iran, and the United States does not condemn the PJAK? It even sends its officials to have friendly chats with the PJAK terrorists? How odd!

The PJAK’s leader, Rahman Haj-Ahmadi, paid an unofficial visit to Washington last summer. One of his close associates, Biryar Gabar, claims to have “normal dialogue†with US officials, according to a report last Tuesday in the New York Times — and the American military spokesman in Baghdad, Cmdr. Scott Rye, issued a carefully structured nondenial saying that “The consensus is that US forces are not working with or advising the PJAK.â€

Biryar Gabar also said that PJAK fighters have killed at least 150 Iranian soldiers and officials in the past three months. That’s a lot more people than the PKK have killed in Turkey in the same time, and yet neither Washington nor any other Western country has expressed sympathy for Iran. Could it be that Iranian lives are worth even less than Turkish lives?

Now what was it GWB said about

And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. ...

Oooops!

Edited November 1, 2007 by kuzadd

[Rue]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18644.htm

Fifteen months ago, the armed wing of Lebanon’s Hezbollah party, listed as a terrorist organization by the United States and most other Western countries, attacked Israel’s northern border, capturing two Israeli soldiers and killing eight more. >>>>>>

Oooops!

OOops is write in your statement of what Hezbollah did you seemed to have skipped over some things that would distinguish what it did from what the IDF did. But hey who cares right? According to your arguement two wrongs make a right. Since Israel in your opinion is terrorist what Hezbollah does is valid.

Brilliant. I guess you are next up for the Nobel Peace Prize.

[kuzadd]

OOops is write in your statement of what Hezbollah did you seemed to have skipped over some things that would distinguish what it did from what the IDF did. But hey who cares right? According to your arguement two wrongs make a right. Since Israel in your opinion is terrorist what Hezbollah does is valid.

Brilliant. I guess you are next up for the Nobel Peace Prize.

oops, I didn't write the article. live with it.

Therefore common sense should dictate to you that is NOT my statement wrt hezbollah.

had you read the entire article you would have been aware of this.

Since you chose not to, we have the above response.

Given that the entire article is about US hypocrisy?????

BTW: Israel is a country therefore I fail to see how it could be a terrorist, (which is indicative of a person more then a piece of land)

Did you mean terrorist state?

Edited November 2, 2007 by kuzadd

[buffycat]

Mr. Dyer missed further hyprocrisy:

Israel Training Iraqi Kurds

Link to BBC video:

The hypocrisy abounds!!

[kuzadd]

Mr. Dyer missed further hyprocrisy:

Israel Training Iraqi Kurds

Link to BBC video:

The hypocrisy abounds!!

Hypocrisy abounds, indeed.

Imagine that?

Israel training Kurds, who are know killing Turks and Iranians?

Oh what a tangled web we weave.....

[buffycat]

Hypocrisy abounds, indeed.

Imagine that?

Israel training Kurds, who are know killing Turks and Iranians?

Oh what a tangled web we weave.....

Yes, it sort of fits in why Israel doesn't want to recognize the Armenian genocide either - sometimes it's tough playing both sides of the fence eh?

What a bloody mess.

By the way K, did you see this:

Israel, Canada sign security accord

Funny - nothing mentioned in Canadian msm!!!

(I might just start a new topic - as I don't want to 'hijack' yours!! )

(edited for title correction)

Edited November 2, 2007 by buffycat

[Rue]

oops, I didn't write the article. live with it.

Therefore common sense should dictate to you that is NOT my statement wrt hezbollah.

had you read the entire article you would have been aware of this.

Since you chose not to, we have the above response.

Given that the entire article is about US hypocrisy?????

BTW: Israel is a country therefore I fail to see how it could be a terrorist, (which is indicative of a person more then a piece of land)

Did you mean terrorist state?

Then why did you repeat it Kuz. At least have the integrity to admit you posted it because you agree with it. To try say you can post articles you agree with then when someone challenges them, simply deny you wrote them is kind of cowardly don't y ou think? Either defend it or stop being a parrot. Anyone can parrot.

You know what you were inferring by posting the article. The innocence is a gas though. Problem is if you fart in someone's face then try pretend you didn't they know why its a gas.

[Rue]

Yes, it sort of fits in why Israel doesn't want to recognize the Armenian genocide either - sometimes it's tough playing both sides of the fence eh?

Once again Buffy the Zionist Slayer leaps onto the scene.

Let's illustrate how the demon she tries to slay may not be shall we?

And please Buffy I invite you to explain to us why what I post is inaccurate. I look forward to it.

1. There is a memorial sculpture and inscrimination in honour of Armenian victims in Jerusalem, Israel;

2. The Hebrew University Jerusalem, offers an Israel Armenian Studies Program Genocide and you can find it at;

unixware.mscc.huji.ac.il/~armenia/pdf/2003 HUJI Armenian Genocide;

3. The Israeli government has in the past recognized the Armenian genocide and in fact in a 2000 statement by Yossi Sarid, Mnr of Education which can be found at http://www.armenian-genocide.org/sarid.html he spoke openly of it and here is an excerpt which I sure Buffy can help explain;

"Today in Israel very few youngsters have heard about Musa Dagh, very few know about the Armenian Genocide. I know how important the position of the Jews, and especially the attitude of the State of Israel to your genocide, are for Armenians in the world. As Minister of Education of the State of Israel, I will do whatever is in my capacity in order that this monumental work The Forty Days of Musa Dagh is once more well known to our children. I will do everything in order that Israeli children learn and know about the Armenian Genocide. Genocide is a crime against humanity and there is nothing more horrible and odious than Genocide. One of the objectives of our education- our main objective- is to instill sensitivity to the harm to the innocent based on nationality alone. We, Jews, as principal victims of murderous hatred are doubly obligated to be sensitive, to identify with other victims."

On the day after the above statement. Israeli Minister of Justice Yossi Beilin stated in reference to the Amermenian genocide; "the events of 1915 cannot be defined except as genocide."

Buffy is assuming because the state of Israel has never officially recognized the Armenian Genocide, it can be inferred the state is evil and hippocritical for remaining unofficial about it. Well before I offer another explanation for Buffy other then her usual "Israel bad" theory may I point out that many Jews and prominent politicians, historians and the Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger have openly spoke of and condemned the Armenian Genocide and if she bothered to find out what actually has been discussed oopenly in Israel about Armenian history she would know that.

So why won't the State of Israel officially recognize it? Well come with me on my voyage of dicovery as I try explain to Buffy that there's more to discover other then then world of Israel bad bad bad.

Turkey has in fact continually warned Israel it will cut off ties if it recognizes the killings as genocide, just as has threaterned the United States.

An American Jewish group, the Anti-Defamation League, which anti-Zionists like to claim is part of the Zionist conspiracy and simply parrots Israel's policies in August of 2007, openly recognized the killings of Armenians as "tantamount to genocide", prompting Turkish protests.

what Turkey then did is what many do, it did not differentiate between Jews and Israelis in its reaction, it simply turned against the State of Israel and held them responsibvle for the ADL's comments.

This is what happens in the real world Buffy seems to floss over. If any Jewish group says anything, Israel can in reaction to those statements, get threatened and of course vice versa, what-ever Israel does or does not do can lead people to criticize all Jews.

That is the real world Israelis and jJews have to live with and someone not Jewish and far removed from what that means like oh say Buffy (ne Finkleberg by any chance?)) does not understand or for that matter make an effort to try understand when she makes her assumptions.

So let's try explain how black-mail works and how sometimes it prevents a country from doing what Buffy thinks should be done shall we?

When the ADL denounced the Armenian genocide in August of 2007, Turkey's Ambassador to Israel immediately conducted an interview in the Jerusalem Post and stated he expected Israel to and I quote verbatum; "deliver the ADL and other Jewish organization on the Armenian Genocide issue".

He made it clear Turkey expected Israel to ensure that ANY Jwish organization in the world AND the US Congress not pass any resolutions characterizing as genocide the massacre of Armenians during World War I.

Turkey engaged in classic anti-semitism. It assumed Israel controls the free will and thought of Jews world-wide and simply gets on the phone and says " hello fellow Jew shush will yah". He also assumed Israel would call other Jews who miraculously control congress and say " "Hi Jews who control congress, listen up, when you aren't making movies in Hollywood or running the banks or controlling the media or kosher hot dog business, can you use your sinister Zionist power and tell congress to avoid any comments about Armenian genocides?"

The Ambassador actually said:

"Israel should not let the American Jewish community change its position. This is our expectation and this is highly important, highly important.... If you want to touch and hurt the hearts of the people in Turkey, this is the issue... This is the No. 1 issue. You cannot easily explain to them any change in this."

He also stated "in the eyes of the Turkish people,Turkey's strategic relationship with Israel was not with Israel alone, but with the whole Jewish world. 'They [the Turkish people] cannot make that differentiation.'"

So let's now ask can Buffy make that differentiation that Turkey won't? Do you think some of our other Israel bad bad bad posters can as well?

How about this concept of Israel having something else going on preventing them from speaking as freely as they might want to on this issue-do you think that is possible? Or am I just a sinister Zionist conspirator spinning a lie?

Could it be Israel is not as bad bad bad and unprincipled as Buffy has suggested it is?

Here is what is going on in the real world. Israel is worried for the safety of Jews who live in Turkey first and foremost. It knows if is says something official in regards to the Armenian genocide, Turkey has said it will retaliate against Jews in Turkey. Turkey has also said it holds Israel responsible for controlling Jews world wide as to their expressions as to the genocide and will expect them to mriaculously control congress.

This is the kind of insanity Israel must work with. In addition to needing to protect Jews in Turkey from a back-lash, Israel also has the practical reality of having to stay friendly with Turkey as it is one of its few allies, let alone Muslim allies in the world, let alone Middle East and is strategically important when dealing with Iran, Syria and helping counter terrorism.

So it has to juggle the practical realities of back-lash against Turkish Jews and its over-all day to day survival issues depending on Turkey as an allie and the moral issue of recognizing the genocide.

Not that Buffy cares but Turkey's pipelines are how Israel gets water and oil. Without both Israel could not survive.

But hey in Buffy's world where she takes her security, water and oil for granted and where she takes it for granted she can say what-ever she wants when she wants, it probably wouldn't dawn on her that sometimes someone might want to do what is right, but has to find other ways to get the same message across. Its called the real world of politicals and international relations where things are not the simple, black and white, good v.s. bad Buffy wants them to be.

Here is what the Foreign Minister of Israel said in September;

"As Jews and Israelis, we have special sympathy and a moral obligation to commemorate the massacres that were perpetrated against the Armenians in the last years of Ottoman rule," said a statement from Livni at the time, hoping "both sides will reach an open dialogue that will enable them to heal the wounds that have been left open."

She made this statement after an open bill in the Knesset was defeated that would have recognized the genocide. The Bill was defeated because Turkey suggested to Israel it would revive an alliance with Syria against Israel if Israel allowed the bill to pass.

Gee imagine that. Israel vulnerable. Israel not the powerful all evil empire Buffy thinks it might be.

All Israel can do for now on the state level is avoid alienating Turkey while on the cultural level, it continues to openly commemorate the Armenian genocide and teach it in its schools.

Other countries not dependent on Turkey who could pressure it and won't, seem to have escaped Buffy's selective moral condemnation? Perhaps Buffy may wish to be credible and criticize them too or is the Armenian genoicde simply another opportunity to exploit for anti-Israel political arguements?

I ams ure Buffy will prove me wrong. She would never exploit a genocide to suggest others who suffered in a genocide are bad people. She would never do that.

so Buffy when do fly to China and Russia to get their governments to come on board?

Say hello to Vlad for me. Watch it. He's a bit of a lady's man.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Rue

[buffycat]

Once again Buffy the Zionist Slayer leaps onto the scene.

This is the only part of your post worth responding to!! It's GREAT!!

I love it!!

Should I change my name just for you?

[AngusThermopyle]

This is the only part of your post worth responding to!! It's GREAT!!

I have to disagree with your statement. Sometimes I agree with what Rue has to say, other times I don't. In this case I must say that he delivered an excellent post, it was full of information that is extremely relevant to the subject at hand.

Could it be that you dismiss the information he set forth as irrelevant because you have no legitimate response? I cant understand why you dismiss this post as worthless.

It's well known that Turkey committed genocide, it's well known that Turkey is rabid in its denial of this genocide. And yes its well known that Turkey tries to quell any dissent from other countries by the use of threats. Not much that can be legitimately dismissed in his post actually.

If one lived in denial of all that disagrees with their views then such a dismissal could be understood, but for one who claims to be a rational person to do so is just childish. I've followed the Turkish genocide subject with interest for the very reason that I find their denial to be fascinating in its irrationality.

By the way, Turkey is not a bastion of the idyllic lifestyle, very very far from it. I had the misfortune of spending some time in that country, it sucks in a majorly hard way. If I never go back it will be too soon.

[kuzadd]

Then why did you repeat it Kuz. At least have the integrity to admit you posted it because you agree with it. To try say you can post articles you agree with then when someone challenges them, simply deny you wrote them is kind of cowardly don't y ou think? Either defend it or stop being a parrot. Anyone can parrot.

You know what you were inferring by posting the article. The innocence is a gas though. Problem is if you fart in someone's face then try pretend you didn't they know why its a gas.

"simply deny you wrote them"

I deny I wrote the article because I did not write the article, isn't that Plagiarism to say otherwise.

Now what one is left wondering is why you insist on attributing, words to me?

What do you feel you have to gain/prove by doing that?

You know what you were inferring by posting the article.

Apparently you think you do?

Hezbollah, PKK and American Hypocrisy

see the title?

American response to Hezbollah's action vs American response to PKK's action.

Oh as for American hypocrisy, it's obvious, even Gwynne Dyer notes it.

Take your issue's up with him.

Edited November 6, 2007 by kuzadd

[kuzadd]

I have to disagree with your statement. Sometimes I agree with what Rue has to say, other times I don't. In this case I must say that he delivered an excellent post, it was full of information that is extremely relevant to the subject at hand.

Could it be that you dismiss the information he set forth as irrelevant because you have no legitimate response? I cant understand why you dismiss this post as worthless.

It's well known that Turkey committed genocide, it's well known that Turkey is rabid in its denial of this genocide. And yes its well known that Turkey tries to quell any dissent from other countries by the use of threats. Not much that can be legitimately dismissed in his post actually.

If one lived in denial of all that disagrees with their views then such a dismissal could be understood, but for one who claims to be a rational person to do so is just childish. I've followed the Turkish genocide subject with interest for the very reason that I find their denial to be fascinating in its irrationality.

By the way, Turkey is not a bastion of the idyllic lifestyle, very very far from it. I had the misfortune of spending some time in that country, it sucks in a majorly hard way. If I never go back it will be too soon.

AT: I would be hard pressed to make a claim that Turkey has not committed genocide, But in all actuality the topic of the article is American hypocrisy, in there response to attacks made by the Kurds, on Turkey and Iran.

Vs the response to attacks made by Hezbollah, on Israel.

condemnations vs condoning.

measured equal responses.

No country is angelic or innocent, NONE!

What is written about here is the hypocrisy in US response, that is made quite clear by Gwynne Dyer, who I have found MOSTLY to be OK, in his analysis.

[Rue]

This is the only part of your post worth responding to!! It's GREAT!!

I love it!!

Should I change my name just for you?

The thing is I can guarantee if you met me I would have you locked under the spell of my Zionist eyes within minutes. Thaen and I would hold the door for you, charm you without drooling on you, and then seduce you in to to change your name to Golda and dying your hair dark brown from your blonde do.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Rue

[Rue]

"I have to disagree with your statement. Sometimes I agree with what Rue has to say, other times I don't. In this case I must say that he delivered an excellent post, it was full of information that is extremely relevant to the subject at hand."

Thanks and I do not ever expect you to need to agree with me. I respect your opinions. I tease Buffy only because I am old and appreciate I have no chance with her.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Rue

[Rue]

by the way Buffy, does it suprise you Israel would have sympathy for the Kurds? They are persecuted in Syria, a common enemy and were persecuted in Iraq and Hussein, a common enemy and they were gassed en masse, something that of course would have deep psychic meaning to Israelis.

Israel identifies Kurds as people victimized by the Muslim world so they would of course identity with them. Its only natural. They also have an alliance with Turkey, which it sees as one of the few Muslim countries that support its existence in that area of the world.

So yes politics makes strange bed-fellows, it always has. I think if you look carefully, Israeli support of Kurds is directed towards supporting them in Lebanon and Syria or with charitable efforts within Iraq. Israel is not stupid enough to train or have anything to do with Kurd seperatists seeking to attack its allie Turkey.

Its interesting though. If they didn't support the Kurds you would probably call them hip o. krits as well.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Rue