kengs333 Posted October 26, 2007 Report Posted October 26, 2007 Provided that the photo is authentic, it seems quite interesting that John Paul II would reveal himself through fire. People seem to be twisting this into something positive; but really, doesn't it seem more likely that if he was sending a sign this way, it would indicate that he was really burning in hell? Warning people that Catholicism is wrong? http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_7218045 Quote
bk59 Posted October 26, 2007 Report Posted October 26, 2007 Provided that the photo is authentic, it seems quite interesting that John Paul II would reveal himself through fire. People seem to be twisting this into something positive; but really, doesn't it seem more likely that if he was sending a sign this way, it would indicate that he was really burning in hell? Warning people that Catholicism is wrong? http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_7218045 Provided that the photo is authentic, the answer to both of your questions would be no. See Exodus 3:2 for why fire does not equal hell. Quote
kengs333 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Posted October 26, 2007 We're talking about a dead pope, not God. Quote
ScottSA Posted October 26, 2007 Report Posted October 26, 2007 We're talking about a dead pope, not God. If I'm not mistaken, fire in and of itself has never been equated with hell in Christianity. I believe the "lake of fire" is meant to illustrate eternal torment rather than fire, literally. I dunno, but I imagine theology students would be able to demonstrate a link between Judeo Christianity and Agni, the Zoroastrian god of fire, but that's just a guess on my part. In any event, fire was as often seen as a good omen as it was a bad omen to the early to mid medieval mind. Quote
kengs333 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Posted October 26, 2007 If I'm not mistaken, fire in and of itself has never been equated with hell in Christianity. I believe the "lake of fire" is meant to illustrate eternal torment rather than fire, literally. I dunno, but I imagine theology students would be able to demonstrate a link between Judeo Christianity and Agni, the Zoroastrian god of fire, but that's just a guess on my part.In any event, fire was as often seen as a good omen as it was a bad omen to the early to mid medieval mind. Revelation 20:10 Revelation 20:15 Quote
GostHacked Posted October 26, 2007 Report Posted October 26, 2007 Pope John Paul II is a pretty hot number. When that man dances, he is on FIRE ! Jesus showed up at a Timmie's here in Canada. I think he was trying to hit the drivethrough, but now sure. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m319..._19/ai_53120339 There has been no word from the Vatican on what Christ may be craving with this latest appearance. Perhaps He's just looking for Elvis. Quote
bk59 Posted October 26, 2007 Report Posted October 26, 2007 If I'm not mistaken, fire in and of itself has never been equated with hell in Christianity. Exactly. There is no reason to believe that an appearance within fire means that the one who appeared is in hell. Fire does not always connote evil or hell in the Bible. Yes, it was God who spoke through the burning bush, but there are other examples of fire in the Bible that are not associated with evil or hell. 2 Kings 2:11 Acts 2:3 Exodus 13:21-22 Daniel 3:25,28 2 Kings 6:17 Quote
buffycat Posted October 26, 2007 Report Posted October 26, 2007 Pope John Paul II is a pretty hot number. When that man dances, he is on FIRE !Jesus showed up at a Timmie's here in Canada. I think he was trying to hit the drivethrough, but now sure. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m319..._19/ai_53120339 Heck I've got that beat!! This summer while camping, we had Elvis, Christ and a half naked woman in our firepit! Too bad we can't post pics here... Quote "An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind" ~ Ghandi
cybercoma Posted October 26, 2007 Report Posted October 26, 2007 Sorry for stating the obvious, but it doesn't look anything like the pope... it looks like a burst of fire. Quote
jbg Posted October 27, 2007 Report Posted October 27, 2007 This may not have much to do with the direction the thread's taken, but it relates to the thread title. I repost below thoughts I wrote down when the great man died: =========================================================== Karol Wojtyla, later Pope John Paul II has been one of the true giants of history who we are lucky to have witnessed. While I disagree with him on many issues (not the least of which is religion), he has set many men free by his moral authority and force of persuasion, without ever having a shot fired on his behalf. As a child, he courageously counted among his playmates/social friends a Jewish boy, Jerzy Kluger. Years later, when elected Pope. Karol Wojtyla grew up in deeply anti-Semitic Poland, the same Poland that played host to Auschwitz, and the same Poland that helped the Nazis with the Final Solution. Even as a child, he displayed his moral character, that of a leader rather than a sheepish follower. He developed an intense dislike of totalitarianism, though he knew enough to modulate his activities to remain effective and stay out of Communist jails. When he was elected Pope, Yuri Andropov, leader of the Soviet Union's KGB intelligence agency, warned the Politburo that there could be trouble ahead. He was right. Many credible people believe that Andropov tried to have him murdered by Mohamed Agca. As Pope, he remembered his friendship towards the Jews. He defined almost 2000 years of Church dogma to recognize Israel, visit the Western Wall, and establish diplomatic ties to Israel.<br> This man was a giant who walked among pygmies. We are lucky to have had him with us for his visit on earth. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
cybercoma Posted October 27, 2007 Report Posted October 27, 2007 Except for that nasty rumour floating around that Karol Wojtyla helped the nazis gas the jews, I'm sure he was a wonderful man. Fearing for your life under nazi occupation must've been a terrible thing, I imagine he just did what he had to do to survive. Quote
ScottSA Posted October 27, 2007 Report Posted October 27, 2007 Except for that nasty rumour floating around that Karol Wojtyla helped the nazis gas the jews, I'm sure he was a wonderful man. Fearing for your life under nazi occupation must've been a terrible thing, I imagine he just did what he had to do to survive. And I imagine that except for the nasty rumour floating around about you and little boys, you're just peachy. I'm sure being way too ugly to attract adults must be a terrible thing, and you did what you had to do in order to get your rocks off. Shove it asshole. I don't care if I get suspended for that...just making crap up and flinging it at a good man is unpardonable. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 27, 2007 Report Posted October 27, 2007 I didn't make it up, but the Alamo Ministries may have. Here's the link to their article: In the early 1940's, a young Polish salesman, employed by I.G. Farben Chemical Company (manufacturer of cyanide gas) 1 sold cyanide to the Nazis, for use in Auschwitz. He also worked as a chemist manufacturing the cyanide gas that exterminated millions of Jews and other peoples in the very heart of the Auschwitz extermination camp. Fearing for his life after the war, he took refuge in the Catholic church (cult) and was ordained a priest in late 1946. In 1958, he was ordained Poland's youngest bishop. After the thirty day reign and assassination of his predecessor, he assumed the papacy as Pope John Paul II 2 http://www.alamoministries.com/content/eng...itive_Pope.html Quote
ScottSA Posted October 27, 2007 Report Posted October 27, 2007 (edited) I didn't make it up, but the Alamo Ministries may have. Here's the link to their article:http://www.alamoministries.com/content/eng...itive_Pope.html This guy went to jail for tax evasion, just to start with, and his site is covered in all sorts of denials and diatribes against "false accusers" (classically paranoid) and diatribes against "International Catholicism." Did you bother to read any of the footnotes in this nonsense? They don't support the accusations in any way, and they're nestled in with such tidbits as "Was Jonestown a C.I.A. Medical Experiment?" It's outrageous that you take this crap and spread it around. Edited October 27, 2007 by ScottSA Quote
jbg Posted October 27, 2007 Report Posted October 27, 2007 I didn't make it up, but the Alamo Ministries may have. Here's the link to their article:http://www.alamoministries.com/content/eng...itive_Pope.html Also, there is no proof that the nondescript Pope John Paul I was assassinated. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jazzer Posted October 27, 2007 Report Posted October 27, 2007 (edited) Provided that the photo is authentic, it seems quite interesting that John Paul II would reveal himself through fire. People seem to be twisting this into something positive; but really, doesn't it seem more likely that if he was sending a sign this way, it would indicate that he was really burning in hell? Warning people that Catholicism is wrong? http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_7218045 Interesting, since this particular Pope didn't believe in a physical hell, just the one in people's minds. "Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy". link Edited October 27, 2007 by jazzer Quote
ScottSA Posted October 27, 2007 Report Posted October 27, 2007 Interesting, since this particular Pope didn't believe in a physical hell, just the one in people's minds. "Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy". link That has long been the Catholic conception. The lake of fire thingy was popular back when Christians acted like fundi Muslims do today. Quote
cybercoma Posted October 28, 2007 Report Posted October 28, 2007 This guy went to jail for tax evasion, just to start with, and his site is covered in all sorts of denials and diatribes against "false accusers" (classically paranoid) and diatribes against "International Catholicism." Did you bother to read any of the footnotes in this nonsense? They don't support the accusations in any way, and they're nestled in with such tidbits as "Was Jonestown a C.I.A. Medical Experiment?"It's outrageous that you take this crap and spread it around. Hence, the reason I didn't claim it as fact. In fact, I specifically said they were "rumours". Quote
ScottSA Posted October 28, 2007 Report Posted October 28, 2007 Hence, the reason I didn't claim it as fact. In fact, I specifically said they were "rumours". No, that's not all you said. You went on to solidify it with this statement: "Fearing for your life under nazi occupation must've been a terrible thing, I imagine he just did what he had to do to survive." You took a crap accusation and tried your best to give it substance. Only after you were called on it did you reveal the source, and then you backpedalled furiously from it. You did none of that in your original post. Quote
kengs333 Posted October 28, 2007 Author Report Posted October 28, 2007 Interesting, since this particular Pope didn't believe in a physical hell, just the one in people's minds. "Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy". link It really doesn't matter what he believed. Quote
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