kimmy

When the people implicated seem to be so highly placed, and have the power to make multi-million dollar contracts appear or disappear at will, over a span of six years, it seems hard to rationalize that it's not systemic. What is the deal with blaming Quebecers for this? It's not like the Quebecers were the recipients of all this cash. The only benefit Quebecers got in any of this is that the government plastered Maple-Leafs on anything that would stay still long enough, and sponsored a few petting zoos, golf tournaments, and crappy documentaries. I think the Quebecers are the victims, more than anything. They've been used as the justification for this scam. They're humiliated, they feel like they've been used, and they feel like the rest of Canada thinks they're crooks. But we are starting to find out who the real crooks are here. -kimmy

Perhaps in the future you could post all of your Mulroney messages in one thread so they're easy to keep track of. As for needing the BQ's help to force an election, yes, I'm sure Harper realizes this. I'm sure that most people also realize the BQ would *love* to go to the polls any time now. -kimmy

And it IS against the law for political donations to be made through a 3rd party, as Brault and Thiboutot and Gilles Gosselin have all testified was regular practice. When these companies made gave their employees money to donate to the Liberals, that was against the law. -kimmy

Certainly with the number of high-profile and influential people from the Liberals' Quebec wing who have been fingered, it's becoming hard to believe that this was just "a rogue element" or some isolated individuals, as the LPC are claiming. -kimmy

A few dozen lives a year... lives are priceless, after all, so if the registry can save a few dozen lives a year then it's worth any amount of money, right? Well, not really. There are lots of things the government could spend money on that would probably save lives. A partial list would include things like: -medical services -mental health services -more policing -public housing -programs for low-income Canadians -programs for prostitutes -programs for drug addicts -more funding for disease control and prevention. (The doctors keep telling us we're in for more and more epidemics like SARS and Avian Flu. And they keep telling us we're not adequately prepared...) The question in spending all this money on the gun registry isn't just "would it save lives?" it's "would it save more lives than other things that could be done with that money?" I'm skeptical that it would. -kimmy

Indeed. With an entity with tens of thousands of employees and dozens of departments all with multi-million dollar budgets, it's not sensible to think that the Finance Minister would have detailed knowledge of how each department is spending its money. Particularly when such extensive measures appear to have been taken to make it look as though ad-scam grift was legitimate expenses. Another thing that makes me kind of skeptical that Paul Martin had detailed knowledge of what went on: I kind of doubt whether he'd have been so adamant about a public inquiry if he had known how bad things actually were. I don't doubt he was sincere in wanting to be accountable... I just don't think his enthusiasm for the truth would have extended all the way to political suicide. -kimmy

Once again I challenge you and all your Conservative friends here to show me where it says that a company who gets a grant or a contract by the government cannot donate money to that party who is running the government. Point that law out to me will ya! And as you were already told, the Liberals are not under fire because they received donations from companies that got contracts. They are under fire because they (allegedly) made it clear that companies had to donate to the Liberal Party to get these contracts. They are under fire because they (allegedly) made it clear to these companies that contracts could be awarded in return for favors, like donations or hiring party friends. They are under fire because they sidestepped proper contract procedures in awarding contracts. (this one is not allegedly; they have admitted as much.) They are under fire because they (allegedly) threatened these companies with the loss of their contracts if they did not continue to grant the favors requested. Your continued insistence that the Liberals are just under attack because they received donations from companies that got government work is very telling. It show that either you are very poorly informed about the issue, or else you simply don't understand what the problem is. Either way, your line of argument says a lot about you and your credibility. -kimmy edit: (allegedly)

Judy Sgro is also suing somebody over accusations about her election campaign. Anne McLellan threatened to sue Diane Ablonczy just a couple of weeks ago over accusations about the sponsorship scandal. -k

CBC story CTV story CBC: Brault's testimony in depth Certainly fascinating reading. -kimmy

Kang? I am SOOOOO hung over right now -kimmy

Geez, caesar. You keep saying that it's just rumours, and just one guy's testimony. You seem to think Brault is the only guy who's testified in this whole inquiry. But you're completely in denial. There's been LOADS of damning testimony already from lots of other witnesses that isn't covered by the publication ban. -kimmy

Yes, the Christian Heritage Party was soundly defeated in every riding they contested. -kimmy

Do explain. Well, I believe the Liberals' larger representation on the committee would give them a larger voice. There you go. Now it's your turn. Why do you disagree? But can we at least agree that it results in a very different dynamic than the number of seats? Why? I think all my messages in this thread have been graced with my usual trademark eloquence and succinctness. If you feel anything I've posted in this thread is "trolling", please explain. I might even apologize, unless I think you're talking out of your ass... I think "undemocratic" was a straightforward argument. To repeat: I think that's pretty logical. If there's some reason why you feel it's not, then please provide more than just "aw, come on!" -kimmy

Are we making the assumption that Harper's reign is short-lived? Like, if he's going to have a benevolent 12 year run as prime-minister and retire of his own accord, I'd say Rona Ambrose will be the next leader. -kang

I'm really 'oping dat "De little guy from Shawinigan" does de "jail-time" over dis. But I'm not do de optimistic t'ing for dat, you know? -k

What about the testimony of Thiboutot and Gosselin and the LaFleurs, you knucklehead? What makes you think that the publication ban on the Brault testimony somehow makes all the other testimony vanish into thin air? I have low expectations of you, caesar, and yet somehow you never cease to amaze. -kodos.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Bro, meet CAGERATTLER. CAGERATTLER, meet Bro. -kim

The Liberals have backed down on this. Politics Watch article -kimmy

Normally I'd rather jab my eyeballs out with a sharpened stick than read Rex Murphy's fatuous bloviation, but a quick glance at these columns makes me wonder if you understand the difference between "critical" and "biased". I often read Chantal Hebert's columns. She's not biased against the Liberals, she's a realist. I can understand where Liberal boosters might not understand the difference, because very few realists are writing anything positive about the Liberals anymore, with good reason. Seriously, dude, you should consider dropping "HELLO!!!" from your repertoire. It makes your message read like a 14 year old girl. -kimmy {So, like, Shannon is like, "do my bewbs look flat in this bra?" and I'm like "Like, HELLO!!!" Like, if she wants to go around with her bewbs looking like fried eggs then, like, what-EVER! And then she's "Like, HELLO!!! I'm right here?" And I'm like "What-EVER!" And she's like "WHO is that dishy latino guy on your T-Shirt!" and I'm like "HELLO!!! It's Che Guevara. He's not a latino guy, he's, like, a pirate or something," and she's like "What-EVER!" and she like storms off, and I'm like totally going to shrink her shirt before I give it back to her so that she looks fat when she wears it at Matt's party...}

If you think the Liberals are being persecuted because they received donations, then either your astoundingly stupid, or you believe everybody else is. -kimmy {that's about all the reply your ridiculous line of argument deserves.}

Ah caesar. If a well-written argument was fine art, like a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh... your messages would be more like that famous painting "Dogs Playing Poker". There is plenty of evidence. The publication ban on Brault's testimony doesn't apply to the testimony of Gilles Gosselin or Bernard Thiboutot or various Lafleurs or countless others. We have plenty of facts. Even the Liberals themselves seem to agree, as they've filed lawsuits against some of the Adscam participants. -kimmy

I believe the 1988 election was fought almost entirely on the Free Trade Agreement, and Canadians gave Mulroney a mandate. -kimmy

The Conservatives must certainly make a clear and detailed and very specific proposal of what they wish to do with the healthcare system, to combat this sort of scare-tactic. -kimmy

And you support a separatist party? Show me the law where a company that gets a government contract is not allowed to make a political donation! I'll be waiting! Of all the comedy comments that Liberal apologists have made on this board during my time here, this is one of the funniest. We've had testimony from Gilles Gosselin saying he was told that if he didn't make donations to the Liberals, he wouldn't be getting contracts. We've heard testimony from Bernard Thiboutot that his company was given money by Groupaction to donate to the Liberals. We've had testimony from Lafleur Communications saying that employees were given money to donate to the Liberals. So, while you might wish to explain this as just "a company making a donation", I think that objective observers would use phrases more like "kickbacks" and "evasion of political donation disclosure rules." -kimmy {was that worth the wait?}

Because it's true. You want an insurance company running your healthcare like the U.S.A.? Well that is exactly what you'll end up getting! Again, for the benefit of the slow-witted, I'll mention that "Canadian" and "US-style" are not the only two healthcare systems out there. There are better healthcare systems out there, like those in France and Sweden, where public and private work together. -kimmy