Shwa

Well Brit Hume's viewers now know - and any of those that visited the YouTube replay. Plus the ones on this forum. I hardly think that Erin's forgiveness will bring back the sponsors and endorsements - well, not immediately anyways. But converting to Christianity and apologizing in a public way on Oprah, now THAT would be business savvy! And it would likely work in a hurry. Likely get a book and movie deal out of it too.

Do you think Hume is giving him a hint? "The majority of Americans identify themselves as Christians (76%), while non-Christian religions (including Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, and others) collectively make up about 4% of the adult population.[3] Another 15% of the adult population identified as having no religious affiliation.[4] According to the American Religious Identification Survey, religious belief varies considerably across the country: 59% of Americans living in Western states report a belief in God, yet in the South (the "Bible Belt") the figure is as high as 86%.[5][6] The United States has more Christians than any other country in the world." From Religion in the United States on Wiki. I suppose it depends on his desire to try and climb out of the holes (puns intended) he has put-putted himself into. He can remain a stellar golfer and be Buddhist, but with a reduced endrosement capacity for a number of years; or convert - go on Oprah with his new Christian confessions and pleas for forgiveness, then resume his golfing and get all those endorsements back. All those millions upon millions that he could use to fuel his secret sex life once again. It doesn't have to be a real conversion, just a public business decision. No one can fault him for that.

Oh I don't know. There is always room for the bad guys to take a beating as "social commentary." But then again, that is about all the social commentary I got out of Star Wars too. To me it was less about corporate character than personal character which is something anyone can enjoy regardless of political stripe. I did notice the look on the corporation-guy's face too - a moment of regret. But by then he had already opened Pandora's box, so to speak.

We saw it this weekend and WOW! And we'll go back this week to see it again with the kids. Story? No worse than the original Star Wars that I have seen many, many times. I suspect Avatar will be bought for the DVD collection. Special effects? As kimmy said, it is an immersive experience in 3D that is hard to explain, but it is something else in the WOW category. Pandora is indeed an alien world. Length? 3 hours is long, but the experience makes it worthwhile. But try not to drink too much pop or you'll end up missing the banshee part for 2 minutes. Political messages? 'Bad people get their just desserts' and 'think of others.' Kind of like Star Wars. There wasn't any corporation-bashing at all, but there was bashing of a certain type of person who cause problems when they rise to power positions in corporations with the means to do large amounts of damage. Go see it, worth the 11$.

And that would be if aliens bothered with radio signals at all.

Well, yes, yes I do know the first thing about Caledonia and the dispute. The information is all there - from both sides - so do your own research instead of being a mindless dupe. If you are capable. I started deciding issue on the basis of "nasty racial stereotypes?" No. There are bigger criminal fish to fry than some rough housing at a land dispute in the boonies of S. Ontario. If you can't recognize that then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. "...armed insurrection." LOFL!

Are you saying that the retention of a natural object for symbolic purposes somehow doesn't count as evidence of anything or are you specifically referring to the Venus of Tan-Tan? Both require the weight of numbers, but even a small weight in the beginnings of research does not invalidate a hypothesis.

Seeing how much effort you have put into trying to express your views, I take it that you are serious. Caledonia and the lawless natives? That was started because some non-natives didn't follow the law in the first place, which has been more than amply pointed out several times before ad nauseum. Yet you persist. If you want to clean up lawlessness in Ontario there are far bigger fish to fry than a little rough-housing on the outskirts of Calendonia. Why not inner city gangs that end up in murder, rape, violence and general public terror? Why not mafia or biker gang activities that end up in murder, rape, violence and general public terror? How about the pedophiles that kidnap, rape and murder little children? And you want Fantino to focus on what? Caledonia and the lawless natives? Pffff...

Except there are corroborations: http://www.originsnet.org/pampau1gallery/index.htm The Venus of Tan Tab could indeed be a weathered stone, but there is no requirement for symbolic objects to have been created specifically for a purpose, just retained. So if H. Erectus also has a similar psychological phenomenon to the one you mention, then seeing figures in stone and retaining that object is as valid as creating it themselves. If enough similar objects are found within the context of occupation it is worth noting. Then it becomes a matter of the weight of numbers. Harrod also makes the point about ceremonial hand axes, something which is routinely ascribed to with later human cultures. The Pit of Bonessite in Spain is a good example of a rare and interesting find in the context of a puzzling site. Then there are the so-called beads or pendants from from Austria and Libya: These examples may not be the smoking guns that some of the more ethusiastic researchers believe they are, but they do provide enough doubt to current theories to ensure that what may first appear as refuse or geological contamination could hold more clues.

But of course. And practically no discovery of this type started off as universal without a good raking over by the skeptics in academia, especially those who hold a contrary view. And there are likely other problems than just naturally weathered, but they do offer an intriguing door that one well qualified researcher thinks worthy of exploration so we all benefit. What is interesting is the similarity between The Venus of Tan-Tan & other, much later Venus figurines.

Linguistics in the sense as a 'science' from Saussure onward. Linguistics has a great long history, but would the stuff previous to structuralism be considered scientific today? Maybe a social science... You have to take Goodall's data with a grain of salt of course, but it is data and very useful data at that. I take the Jesuit Relations with a grain of salt, but it contains a heck of a lot of data on the early Native American culture.

I did, OriginsNet. Here are a couple of the items he is looking at: http://www.originsnet.org/nenatoolsfems/pages/a)berekram.htm - 243-470 kya BP http://www.originsnet.org/nenatoolsfems/pages/b)tantanfront.htm - 300-500 kya BP

Linguistics is a very young science, so controlled circumstances might not be the appropriate venue in the same way that ethnology-behind-the-desk has it's limits even in the modern information age. As for Goodall, a means, not an end in itself, like any previous science or historical authorship the bias have to recognized for sure, but the data is still useable.

A few years ago I would be inclined to agree, but I am not longer certain of that: OriginsNet run by James Harrod. Some of his stuff is a little 'out there' but very, very interesting nonetheless. Can't fault his credentials. The main point being is when does a high level of craftmanship become 'art' or is that merely in the eye of the beholder or utility? One thing that we must be careful of is not ignoring the environmental context of those ancient hominids when examining the material remains. The better portion of their lifeway did not make it to fossil record of course, but nowadays modern archaeology and its paleo- branch have become very interested in those paleo environments from geography, the floral and faunal remains, the climate, etc. An archaeologist will make inferences not just from the simple material remains of the occupants of a given site, but from many other sources that have been carefully researched as best we can with the tools available.

As usually TB you present several compelling points! Would dance be included as complex symbolic notions? How about play? Neither can be proven through the examination of scant material remains, but can they be inferred by an examination of known ancient examples and modern primate behavior. (Actually - believe it or not - I know someone who is taking a PhD in dance complete with the anthropology of dance, etc. Who knew? I didn't...) Chimps both dance and play. This is contentious at best since most of what we know was done in a lab and we are trying to teach them one of our languages instead of trying to learn one of theirs. Sort of like taking a Tapirape tribesman from the Amazon onto the space station and teaching them Russian. There are going to be gaps in their expressions. And it could be a simple matter of context. Why Goodall's research is such a valuable means is the field data. I am not sure if there is current research to nail down any chimpanzee language in the context of their habitual environment (like dialect), where - if there were any present - their symbols have meaning to them. While we can admire our modern syntax and complex grammar, we also have to acknowledge that our form of language is unique - it could be that chimps and other apes use a complex combination of gesture, sound and environmental context to express meanings.

Actually it has very little to do with "God hating" anyone and more to do with a chronological structure that is standardized for the world - most of whom have nothing in common with "Christ." Even BCE is starting to lose favour and is being replaced with Before Present - BP - which refers to dates roughly before Jan 1, 1950. The BP method of expressing dates is used fairly extensively in science.

Wow! You are over a hundred years old?? Congratulations! I am amazed that at your age you are using the Internet. Good for you and many, many more! Perhaps - if you would like a small piece of Canada - someone could dig up a shovel or two for you to keep around, maybe use it in an indoor planter or put it an aquarium so you could look at it?

I agree of course, but the point being that Goodall made a connection between behaviors of different species in the same sense that we view play in other creatures. Whether or not her views are coloured by her own spiritual feelings is another thing, but her recordings are a very useful starting point. I think when she first made the connection it she was observing chimps that 'appeared' to be in awe of a waterfall or some other natural feature of their habitat. Interesting aside whether other creatures can appreciated something that we would call beautiful.

Then you obviously missed page 25 and ToadBrother's comments on religion and the development of the early church? Heck, do I have to do your homework for you too? Sheesh... http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=14190&st=360 I moved on to "something else" to illustrate my point within a less contentious context which was elaborated on with the discussion of the Three Sisters story. Or did you miss that part too? Good grief...

Rats. I had my eyes on a little bay south of Charleston. Oh well, I suppose I could amble on down and claim manifest destiny or terra nullis or something like that. They likely wouldn't go for it though. Damn. Guess I'll have to pony up for the damned timeshare. :angry:

Not quite. All you have done is drawn an anthropocentric opinion based upon scant fossil material evidence. That will hardly do. According to the reasoning you have presented here, the paleo-indian people that occupied the Simcoe highlands 9kya had no language, no religion, no culture except that which supported a life that was nasty, brutish and short. Because, you know, on some of those camps all they found were broken points, some stone flakes and the remains of a hearth. But even Jane Goodall could recognize a spiritual component among chimpanzees. Oh wait, what does Jane Goodall know? And I am still waiting for your "evidence" that only human (and now Neanderthal) frontal lobe development is a requirement for the conception of a deity. Guess I will be waiting a long time for that won't I?

The only thing I tried to "prove" was that a "bible story" could be used as input into the understanding of the myth making structures of a culture from a long, long time ago. Obviously that point was well over your head. That's not my problem. Not anymore than anyone asserting anything without any valid reason for doing so or the kahones to back it up. wyly is wholly reluctant to post any reference to frontal lobe development in humans being the deciding factor in religion. The ball is in his court, not mine. There is a vast difference between anthropology and anthropocentrism. If you can't comprehend that, then perhaps you should post at the kiddie board and let the adults continue discussions here. Come back when you have something useful to add. And better manners.

The "we" is the rest of the rational posters that discussed the issue at length. Were you not reading? Go back a bunch of pages. Heck you couldn't even post a decent cite that establishes that only human (oh, and now Neanderthal) frontal lobe development is required for the development of religion. You're just guessing and anthropocentrically at that. Like I said, "overkill."

In Six Nations the big meanie thugs diverted the Olympic flame relay to the Bingo Hall, but in Kitchener they beat the living crap out of the torch bearer. On scene medical attention! Violence! Thuggery! 200 protesters! The perp was one Brittney Simpson. Sounds like a country and western fan if you ask me. A C-Dub in K-Dub. If you are in Kitchener, run for the hills! But take a little time to browse in downtown St. Jacobs on your way out of town. Good bargains there this time of year...