nicky10013
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Posts posted by nicky10013
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Wow, CPC supporters here must be getting desperate with trash like this.
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Every government hates democracy when it works against them.
Yet another form of "well, the other guys did it so it doesn't matter this time around" despite the fact that this round of guys got elected specifically on the promise of not doing what the previous bunch of guys did.
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Looks like Layton is looking for a way to vote with Harper on the budget...
With the contempt charges and now hookers and lobbyists, it's going to be hard not to vote it down. I wonder what Punked will say if he actually does.
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Yah a whole 15 years after all the other parties and not with out a huge internal fight.
When did I ever say I haven't ever been to a Liberal meeting or Convention for the that matter? I don't remember saying that ever?
Well, lets just say this. If you went to the convention you would've known which way the convetion actually worked. You didn't. I had to explain it to you. I think that's patently obvious.
Second, you had no idea how the policy process actually works. If you had been to a meeting you'd realize that there was a call for policy a LONG time ago and that it starts with the riding associations, goes to regional policy conventions, then provincial, then finally federal. However, you didn't. Strike two.
Third strike - there wasn't any huge internal fight within the LPC. It came in, quite quietly as matter of fact, around the same time Ignatieff got the leadership.
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http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=18275&view=findpost&p=641112
In case you missed it...
Keep up the good work...
Oh, I still haven't gotten an answer on him regarding any of his positions on NDP policy now, or what he claims to be NDP achievements in the past. He actually claimed that the NDP federally had more achievements than the LPC, then tried to claim credit for everything the LPC actually accomplished.
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Tell me more about how the Liberal leader lost to Dion. I don't care how the system works if he can't run a leadership race and lost one of the least popular Liberal leaders ever what does that say about him? Not my fault the Liberals have the worst system in the world, it might interest you to know every other party in federal politics have a one member one vote system because they are modern parties that aren't stuck in the 1800s.
And? At least attack the PArty for that...oh...wiat, you can't because they changed it.
At the very least stop pretending to be an expert on the Liberal Party. You don't know anything about politics in general but everyone is allowed an opinion because of our open system, but to really know the party you've got to be in it for a while. Something tells me you never have. For someone who knows more than me (despite never having actually ever gone to a meeting) you seem to actually know nothing about how the party actually works.
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Maybe he wont deal with them because their supporters accept stupid arguments like "We can't vote against the government it might fall and it has only been a year." Maybe if you actually held you party and leader accountable Harper would care what your party said. I will take the progressive policy where I can get it. I am not voting Liberal because I know they wont bring progressive policy forward with out the NDP there.
At this point considering his record, do you honestly think Harper cares what anyone thinks anymore? This reeks of self-aggrandizing denial. That somehow Harper chose the NDP because the party is more pure. No. Just like everything Harper does - that and the NDP (you have something in common) - everything Harper does is to screw the centre-left.
I have no idea what you are talking about. The only time the NDP gets to make demands is when the Liberals stop letting the conservatives do what they want because the Liberals never ask for anything. Then Liberals get mad because the NDP is getting the things done they couldn't because their party doesn't actually care about getting anything but power. My party has made many many deals at the same time dropped plenty of governments Martin being one because they thought they were to corrupt to work with. That is just the way it is. Right now we are looking at spending 300 million to be right where we are now so why not try to get something because we all know the Liberals are going to lose. Problem is the NDP are acting as the opposition and the Liberals are just watching.If you forgot, the Liberals and the Conservatives actually negotiated in 2009 before going to Layton. In all the meetings, none of the CPC showed up. Instead, they went to Jack. Now why would they do that? Oh yeah, to screw the Liberals and split the left.
Sorry I don't play into Liberal fear mongering. We will be right back to where we are today if an election happens in April.What in god's name are you talking about? Do you honestly think I care if the NDP loses seats? I hope they lose seats so we don't have to put up with Jack's inflated sense of self-importance for another parliament.
Still don't see where you are coming from. You are making claims like "The NDP are down in the polls so they are going to give Harper whatever he wants" even though they are fine in the polls and have a list of demands to support the government. I feel like desperation is setting in, in Liberal Land.You won 18.2% of the vote in the past election, are currently at 14.9% and you think this is fine? Apparently Jack doesn't or else he wouldn't be crawling on his knees for a deal. Whether you think it's desperation or not, the fact that he took corporate tax cuts off the table even though he said he never would signals everything you need to know.
Am I really the one who is desperate here? I'm at least not in denial. You seem to be.
It doesn'tIt actually does, you're just living in fantasy land.
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See because I am older then 12 years I understand the way politics in Canada actually works. To move people you actually need something besides "Come on we are the Liberals". Elections in Canada are usually mundane things and the electoral history shows when an incumbent PM goes into an election you can only expect a swing of 6 points at the very very extreem. The gap is just to big for the Liberals sorry to tell you.
Kim Campbell isn't Harper it was her first election and she ran like it was her first election. Lets get serious Liberals keep hoping for 93 over again this aint 93 it aint even close. Kim Campbell is more like the Liberal leader then the Conservative leader to be quite honest here if we want to be real.
What Michael Ignatieff shock are you talking about? Would it be when he lost the leadership race to Dion? Was it when he took a ridding that voted 55% Liberal before him and only got 43% of the vote? He is a bad politician look at his history Niki lets be serious you are talking about the guy who lost Dion.
I am making a bet right now, we are going to get the same parliament we have right now with 20 seats changing hands but canceling each other out.
First of all, if you knew how Canadian politics worked you'd know rather than an up and down vote of party members, it's actually a delegate system like the democrats do it in the US. He was actually first in the leadership race, Bob Rae was second and Dion was third. Gerard Kennedy was 4th, threw his delegates to Dion and he came up through the middle and all of a sudden the third placed candidate won. The constitution changed and that won't happen in future leadership conventions, but if a straight vote were to take place electing a leader by 1 voter per member Ignatieff would've won easily. That also quashes the notion that you know more about the LPC than I do, but really, who's counting here? Not you, you probably couldn't count in the first place.
Furthermore, where did I ever say Campbell was Harper? I specifically said she wasn't. All I said was that strange things can happen in elections. Actually, they almost always do. You just can never count on them going your way.
Furthermore, I never said that platforms don't matter. I just said elections are decided usually on one major policy issue. It helps to have a platform in order to deal with that. However, they're no where near as important as you're suggesting. Harper in 2008 had no platform at all yet, he won seats.
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Yeah. A $300M election for the Liberals to get rid of Ignatieff cause they can't afford a leadership convention. Let the sucker taxpayers pay for the mistake Liberals made when they anointed Ignatieff.
Personally, how many card carrying active Liberals do you know that want Ignatieff out?
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I figured it was as close as I would get. Glad I know more about your party then you do though. It explains a lot about our voting habits.
You actually don't. Then again you'll never admit it, because you really don't argue with reason. Hence the crack comment. Where in anything did I say I apologized? I just pointed out that you really misread it but that still doesn't excuse the NDP for what they did.
Perhaps read the entire thing next time.
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The NDP are a fourth Party when they can get progressive policy passed they will get the deal done. The NDP dealt with the Conservatives for a Billion for EI when the Liberals couldn't get the job done. They dealt with Martin to get a number of things in the budget they dealt with Diefenbaker to get a Hospitable care act.
How can the Liberals get the job done when Harper won't negotiate with them? He's purposefully spiting the Liberals and in turn splitting the left by only dealing with the NDP. Say what you want about the Liberals but they're a more progressive option than the CPC. You guys are just so jaded the Liberals are the centre-left party that wins that you're willing to deal with a party on the direct opposite end of the spectrum as you to spite them. In doing so, you idiots are getting less progressive policy through the house while helping the CPC win votes in general elections.
They have dealt with almost every Prime minster at some point and time to get progressive policy passed. I don't see how that is Hypocritical they don't hide it. It is how the party has always operated and have never pretended to be anything else. That is the difference between the Liberals and the NDP the Liberals just let the Conservatives do whatever they want and votes with them because they are a right wing party and they are scared. The NDP demands to work with the government the government must actually work with them.
So there is absolutely no politics involved? The NDP actually demands the government must work with them, until the prospect of an election looms and jack has to go cap in hand, tail between legs to Harper to beg to cut a shitty deal just to stay alive. Meanwhile, they have stooges like you go out and spread the talking points that the NDP is actually working for Canadians while the Liberals are just playing politics? The NDP have never had it easier - they can cave and make it look like they're actually doing anything when in real fact they're powerless because they're so desperate to avoid an election they'll give Harper anything - furthermore, Harper knows it.
Yet the Liberals are playing politics? Take your head out of your ass. Your party is no better morally than any other. If it wasn't it wouldn't win seats in federal politics. You guys are just too stupid politically to win any more seats.
As for the polls being bad for them the polls are fine for the NDP they might lose 5 seats but they also might win 10, the polls are just fine for the NDP. They are between 15-19% and up in all the right places.5 seats might be the difference between being able to keep parliament alive rather than just have the Liberals and Bloc decide and get your ridiculous deals with Harper through. The fact that you're willing to write those 5 seats off shows how inept at least you are.
I really don't understand what you are saying unless you are losing this argument so you are trying to through stuff up to see if it sticks.
Thanks for coming out and admitting it at least.
That is what I assume you are doing because your points make no sense in the context of Canadian politics.Riiiight.
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So we can make a bet right now. If the Liberals win the election I wont post here any more if the Liberals lose you wont? I can tell you right now we have an April election they are losing, they actually have nothing and are sitting at 23% right now.
I'm not betting either way because I truly don't know what's going to happen. If you were older than 12 you'd know that elections have a life of their own. Who brings down the government and why and frankly entire platforms have nothing to do with who wins or loses.
It all comes down to one issue. One defined issue that doesn't come to light until midway through the campaign or after. It's not usually one that people generally predict. Polls swing violently throughout which is why I don't trust 23%. Let's not forget that Kim Campbell, who was far more popular than Chretien at the time, took her party from the one of the largest majorities in Canadian history to 2 seats. Now, I'm not saying that's going to happen, but to say we can predict an election outcome before hand is pure stupidity.
Could 23% hold? Absolutely, but the only person unknown in a field of knowns in regards to a very bored electorate is Michael Ignatieff and he's proven he's been able to shock before.
Considering how nasty this election is going to be, no one should be making any bets.
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I'll take that as the best apology I will ever get out of you. Apology accepted.
You must be on crack.
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Got it. No election on what you believe in, only a election when the Liberals have enough money. I got it we can only have elections when Liberals want them, and if we have elections outside that time we are being irresponsible? It is a waste of 300 million today when we are going to get the same parliament just as it would have been a year ago or 2 years ago.
BTW you must thing Trudeau was horrible because he helped bring down Joe Clark after just 6 months. No wait I forgot having an election when Liberals want one is OK.
HYPOCRITE!
So you're calling Liberal politicians hypocrites for being politicians? The one thing dippers can never understand about politics is that you can believe in whatever you want but you can't do it anything about it unless you actually win. Which means that sometimes you have to eat it so you can win a year or two down the line and actually implement your agenda.
Trudeau won, didn't he?
Furthermore, don't scream hypocrite. NDP rarely ever stands on it's ideals when it could be bad for them in an election.
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20090913/qp_layton_090913/
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Some people believe promises should be kept not Liberals.
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20090502/qp_liberal_ignatieff_090503/
Fair enough. Things happen, though - namely the sharp drop in the polls after he said the election was going to be brought down.
Now, I could be a dick and say that this article never actually mentions if the intent was to make the platform public before an election. Either way, he shouldn't have said it.
Yet, that's more criticism than I'll ever see out of you regarding Happy Jack, so who is the hypocrite now? With all the tap dancing NDP supporters have to do to support their own party, to pick on members of party's because that party is hypocritical when their own is as well is really the ultimate in hypocrisy.
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Was it something about a pot or a kettle?
When did I predict the outcome of an election before it was even called? Do you even know what this analogy means?
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Seems like the Liberals are going to be very happy to send us into a 300 million dollar election that wont change parliament very soon. HYPOCRITE!!!
How do you know? Oh, right, because you're a hubris filled ideological political novice.
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Yah but how far you play it out shows how your results will be. In 2004 Martin waited till the last week of the election, in 2006 it was 2 weeks out, in 2008 Dion used it the first day, it truly shows how bad it is for you guys when Liberals including the Leader are playing it before the election. Ouch big loss coming eh?
What did I just say about being an hubris filled ideological political novice?
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I don't know I mean their leader promised a policy book out by June 2009. I just figured if he broke that promise and they couldn't even get that out that their wont be one. I mean honestly it has been 2 years.
Cited quote, please. I've been to quite a few Liberal meetings since 2009. LPCO and the OLO have made it quite clear they were going to take their time to do this policy process properly.
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I feel pretty confident in saying that if it wasn't true (and dead nuts true...) Haprper would have defended him to the hilt. Of course, with a possible election coming up, it makes sense for Harper to be able to say we are having him investigated by the RCMP.
Yep, he did it with Oda.
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I believe the Liberals actually split the Center right vote, which is a good thing. Just look at the last 4 years worth of voting, they are a right wing party.
Someone has to be responsible and prop up the government in order to stop spending 300 million on endless elections. Just because you, as a dipper (just look at your policies) don't care at all about tax payer money doesn't mean other parties shouldn't.
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You know the Liberals have lost the election when they go to the "NDP will never win" argument. This however is the first I have seen them use it before 2 weeks out. They must really be screwed if this is all they got now. No wonder the NDP are beating them in the West and Quebec.
Ever since the NDP has existed the LPC has been playing that card and I think our electoral success speaks for itself.
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Those aren't policies they are things your party stole from the 1980 NDP. Seriously Child care, Stronger CPP, and a "National Food Policy". Man the Liberals bring weak game but I was expecting more then a webpage with promises the Liberals have been making for 35 years, or things they lifted directly from the NDP. Seriously I though it might be something I could actually read and have substance.
This is it? I mean the red book was 112 pages. This is one webpage with no plans no specifics and 4 promises.
I repeat the Liberals have no policy. And he is actually not dead right. You know why? The Liberal party members can send all the policies they want to the policy committee, a committee put together by backroom boys, and they can ignore them all. Which is what they appear to have done.
In the NDP all policy created by ridding associations goes to the convention floor is debated and voted on my the membership. It is called democracy the Liberals might want to try it.
Who says there won't be one? Has the election been called yet? Only political novices and hubris filled ideologues call a political result before the polls close. You're probably both.
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So I will ask again where can I find those policies because I think you are dead wrong. There is an easy way to prove you are right though. Show me the policy. You wont find them though.
He's actually dead right. The Ontario policy convention for the LPC was 5-6 weeks ago. Our riding association had a couple of policy initiatives approved.
Will Ignatieff maintain his promise to go "home" to the US
in Federal Politics in Canada
Posted
Well, I think questioning the relationship we have the US is healthy. I mean, there's no way around the fact that our economy will be tied to theirs but there will naturally be questions about cross border policy on which Canada and the US may not agree, however, this doesn't mean it's "Anti-American." What the CPC are doing are Anti-American smears while at the same time are actually bringing us closer into the American orbit. Their idea of what our politics should be is certainly closer to the US model than the Canadian. It's hypocritical double speak to say the least.