[How low can Israeli supporters sink]

their mantra is not much different than the israeli government's, which is to never allow a palestinian state.

Actually, that's not the Israeli government position at all. But thanks for playing.

Here's a statement made by the UN regarding the Israeli position:

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/c25aba03f...33;OpenDocument

The representative of Israel said her Government fully supported the aspirations of the Palestinian people in achieving self-determination, but noted that it could only be realized by achieving a two-State solution, with a Jewish homeland of Israel alongside a Palestinian homeland....Other Israeli leaders further affirmed that a prosperous, viable Palestinian State was in Israel's own interest....She said that, while her Government was prepared to pursue that goal, the Palestinian people must also simultaneously accept the existence of an Israeli homeland for Jewish people.

talk is cheap. the israelis do a lot of talking. the important thing here is that they rejected the draft. you are quoting from a draft that israel voted against. did you purposely missed that part?

I'm sure any such bills have been shut down.

That's because while the government (and likely most of Israel) wants Palestinians to have their own state, they also have a duty to protect Israeli lives. Making an independent Palestine while they are under threat of rocket attacks (as they have been for a long, long time) seems like a rather stupid thing to do.

So any bill that says 'give Palestine a homeland' should be shut down until Israel knows that any Palestinian government will ensure peace, and not let its territory be used to launch terrorist attacks.

remember the PLO under arafat? they "officially" and in writing accepted israel's right to exist. what came from that? increasing of the illegal settlements and more annexation of the palestinian land and the continue of the israeli control of all major roads, the airspace and the water.

Well, you'd think that Palestinians would realized 'Launch a rocket, get attacked in retaliation' would make at least some realize that taking the first step of launching the rocket would be a "bad idea".

Just out of curiosity, what 'international law' have they been violating?

launching rockets was not "the first step". the rockets have been happening for less than five years. israel's violation of international law, like resolution 242 and the violation of the rules of occupation, has been happening for half of a century.

[How low can Israeli supporters sink]

The story is the same with all Arab-Israeli wars.

1. Let's attack the Jews.

2. Attack, attack...bang, boom.

3. Oh, oh...we're losing again.

4. Hammer comes down hard.

5. Cry for a do-over.

--------------------------------

It's a Daisy.

the story is quite simple. since 1967, israel has been breaking international law by occupying and annexing palestinian land. why are you not speaking against this violation?

[How low can Israeli supporters sink]

Exactly.

The Gazans "elected" a group whose mantra is the destruction of Israel. THus, the Palestinians have chosen a battle. Now they don't like how it played out.

Cry me a river.

their mantra is not much different than the israeli government's, which is to never allow a palestinian state.

any time a bill comes up in the kenneset to allow a palestinian state, it is shutdown overwhelmingly.

the occupation and the annexation of palestinian land has been happening for close to 50 years. you're surprised that the people have elected someone who says they'll be fighting against this occupation?

[How low can Israeli supporters sink]

I am okay with that because I agree with their position. Please be so kind as to allow me to explain my view. First of all, you have to admit to yourself that Hamas was breaking international law by firing rockets at Israel.

i don't think anyone is denying that hamas has broken international law by both firing rockets and carrying out suicide attacks in the past. that i fully agree with you.

Secondly you have to admit that in the same position you would react in the same manner, striking back.

no. i have to disagree. you have to realize that this whole thing did not start with hamas' homemade rockets which has killed less than 5 civilians since the conflict escalated recently. israel has been controlling the airspace, the waters and all the borders for over 4 decades. they have imposed a blockade for a while now where it's become extremely difficult for food and aid to go into gaza. this latest blockade started because israel does not like who the gazans have democratically elected as their government, which is hamas.

so we have to understand that this did not start over some rockets being fired.

however, lets for a second pretend that israel is responding to rockets which, again, have killed less than 5 israeli civilians. would that really justify the over 1000 palestinians dying in the past 2 weeks, where 1/3 of them are children? i don't think so, do you? would that justify demolishing people's lives? would that justify the over 5000 civilians who have been severely injured? i don't think so, do you?

Thirdly you have to admit to yourself that you are an outside observer, nothing more and nothing less and then apply your own morals to the situation, in my case that means treating others as you would have them treat you.

this is not my personal morals that i am applying. i am applying international law which includes the geneva convention. same international rules were applied during the world war where germany declared that they were in danger of the jews taking their country down and that's how they justified the atrocities. i'm not saying that the israelis are treating the palestinians the same way the nazis treated the jews, but we'd have to respect these international laws which most countries, including israel are signatories to.

same argument can be said about south africa where the africans where put into enclaves and the roads, borders and many other things that we take for granted in north america were being controlled by the apartheid government.

we certainly don't support or endorse hamas for breaking international law, but we do support israel which has been breaking international law for close to 50 years.

[How low can Israeli supporters sink]

Having said that, both sides are in the wrong, and both feel justified in their actions. To each their own I guess. Yet, I for one would take great exception to another nation mounting attacks on my home or my nation. I would feel justified in doing whatever it was that I decided, and I don't think I would give a damn what the people that were not involved in the conflict thought.

what other people would think?

israel is breaking international law. why do you seem to be okay with that?