Machjo
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Posts posted by Machjo
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15 minutes ago, turningrite said:
But why move to another country if you don't want to integrate? My sister, who's been living in the U.S. for decades, asked me this when visiting Toronto a while back. While on a shopping excursion with a friend she noticed women wearing traditional ethnic garb and conversing among themselves in their native language(s). Living in a large U.S. city with a significant Asian immigrant population, she was surprised by this. "Our immigrants want to become like Americans" she noted, pointing out that this didn't appear to be the case in Canada. Who would move to another country and not learn or use the local language? I wouldn't move to Germany or Italy without learning German or Italian and even were I to consider moving to Quebec or France I would brush up on my underused and now very shoddy French language skills. Integration is a matter both of functionality and respect.
You haven't read much of Toronto's history, have you? Germans originally ploughed what we now call Yonge street. And let's consider Canada's history. Chinuk Wawa served as the dominant auxiliary language in British Columbia until around 1900. Even today, Inuktitut remains the dominant language in Nunavut. So when did English ever serve as the sole language for the whole of Canada?
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36 minutes ago, taxme said:
Well, maybe you don't give a chit about your race but others like me do. There were many races created by what or whomever and I can only assume that the reason for that is what they call diversity. A variety of birds and animals makes life different and interesting to look at. A variety of races also makes the world more diverse and interesting as long as those races stay in and on their own lands and not invade others. Unfortunately, that has not happened. The races are mixing themselves up too much together and that is not good for any race of people. Just saying.
Then marry within your own race. No one is forcing you to marry outside of your race last I checked.
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4 minutes ago, taxme said:
Sure you will. You would probably be the last one to want to show me and prove me right, eh? Hey, if it gets bad in the purple colored community that I live in I will let you know. Okay?
There you go. Showing your racism already towards white people as if white people like to burn crosses on other peoples lawns. Those days are long gone or have you bothered not to notice that just yet that no one burns crosses on other peoples lawns anymore? This is what I have been talking about for years now. Blame old whitey for everything is pretty much what you are saying here as far as I am concerned.
I wasn't blaming 'whitey' for anything. I'm well aware that plenty of whites are quite welcoming of other races just as some non-whites can be quite prejudiced against whites. I wasn't thinking of whites at all. I was just thinking of you, thinking that maybe you walk around with a Nazi flag pin on your lapel that might explain some of the behaviour towards you? How do you explain that I as a minority white man in my local neighbourhood have generally been well received whereas you appear to have been chased out of every comunity you've ever moved into?
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15 minutes ago, taxme said:
What happens when there are a dozen different communities with many different languages, ,cultures, traditions and religions that are not compatible with one another and do not want to have to deal with one another because of their biases and prejudices towards each another. No non black Canadian wants to live in a black community because of the reputation that black communities have to offer. Poverty and unemployment and crime. All you have done here is set up a bunch of tribal communities and ghettos which is exactly what is happening in Canada today. This is my territory and don't you dare come into it or else is what I see happening in Canada today. We are slowly all becoming a bit racist or there are now even actual racism going on now. This was not normal in Canada over sixty years ago. But thanks to multiculturalism tribal war has begun. You just refuse to want to see it happening in front of you.
Who cares about race?
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22 minutes ago, taxme said:
What? Are you serious? I would have to go back over a decade ago to try and find that information out for you. I know for a fact that Koreans do not like Chinese. My son had a Korean friend and he got insulted when I thought that he was Chinese. Trust me they do not have love for each other. Sure there are no doubt Chines and Korean restaurants snuggled together somewhere but that does not have to mean that they love each other. They are actually competing with each other for business and probably do not like it one bit.
Try and go to a city council meeting and start talking race and immigration? The council will just sit there and will probably ignore you. All levels of government all try to avoid race and immigration discussions and debates. Those two topics are all too hot to handle for any politician to want to deal with. It just must remain a taboo and sacred cow subjects that should never be talked about in politically correct polite circles. I know all about that because of the many websites that I like to visit where the operators of those websites have gone to meetings and were pretty much ignored when the topic of race or immigration came up. FYI.
Some Chinese even choose to learn Korean. Go figure eh. And why do you care so much about race?
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3 minutes ago, taxme said:
For now.
I'll let you know when things change, 'kay?
I imagine though that as long as I avoid buring crosses on neighbours' lawns, I should be okay.
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2 hours ago, turningrite said:
One of the troubling aspects of the ethnoburb phenomenon is that many of these communities are being established as new-build projects. Nobody is moving out but those moving in are often overwhelmingly of singular ethno-racial and/or religious backgrounds, which is the genesis of the "ethnoburb" designation. Some apologists for modern immigration and open-ended multicultural policies compare these ethnic suburbs to the so-called "receiving" neighbourhoods established by immigrant groups in previous generations. But there is actually a big difference. The receiving neighbourhoods were located in or near inner-city neighbourhoods, where new waves of immigrants in succession generally displaced older waves of immigrants. They were, in essence, transitory neighbourhoods that weren't intended to be permanent ethnic or racial enclaves. As newcomers adapted and integrated they moved into the broader community. The new ethnoburbs, however, appear intended to be more-or-less permanently segregated enclaves. The implications may be far more problematic than many want to be believe to be the case. Ghettos, whatever their socio-economic characteristics, tend to undermine social cohesion, integration and tolerance.
Now I do agree with cities putting a stop to suburban sprawl. We should focus instead on cities growing up, not out. But beyond that though, I see nothing wrong with people moving close to their language community. That's quite normal in fact.
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11 minutes ago, taxme said:
As I have said many times before, a country will not survive if it keeps bringing in more people that are culturally imcompatible to the host people of those countries or in other words, forcing multicultural programs and agendas on the host citizen's of any country without their permission. The more a country allows in more new immigrants from the dozens of different non British/European countries with the many different languages, cultures, traditions, and religions is asking for trouble. And our governments at all levels are trying to help and support and promote those new cultures at the British/Europeans expense. More problems will develop from all that mixing up of the races. Many new immigrants coming to Canada hate many other new immigrants from other countries. As an example Chinese and Koreans despise one another. Not good for diversity and trying to get along. Multiculturalism will destroy Canada if it not soon nipped in the bud.
There was a mall in Delta, BC a few years ago that was taken over by South Koreans. They bought the mall and when the leases came up for renewal for everyone who had a business in that mall that were not Korean their contracts were not renewed. They only wanted Korean stores in that mall. That was racism pure and simple. They did not want white people in that mall. White people in a pretty much owned Chinese mall in Richmond, BC one day many years ago were told to go shop in another white mall somewhere. They were white. Another example of racism against white people at it's best. This is only just the start of what white people in this country will face in another decade or so if they do not soon wake the hell up. The British/European founders of this country are slowly been replaced by a foreign non British/European one who clearly have shown that many do not have any love for our way of life and doing things or for white people period. Your mother was a prime example of this racism. Toronto is starting to become a hell hole for the British/European people of that city. We all should know by now that Muslims will never try and assimilate into Canadian culture.
The warning signals are there for all to see but is anyone reading that writing on the wall? I don't think so. My son and grandchildren are being taught in school that their British culture is not welcome or dominant in Canada anymore. They are now becoming second class citizen's in their own country. That will not be good or great for them in the future. It will be a disaster for them. My opinion of course.
Do you have a link to back up your claims of the Korean community systematically excluding whites and of Koreans and Chinese hating one another? I've seen Korean restaurants in the heart of the Chinese community and Chinese friends and I have visited Korean restaurants run by Koreans.
Don't assume that what's going on in your local community is happening across Canada. If that's happening in your local community, speak up against at local city council meetings.
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9 minutes ago, Argus said:
Every social psychologist will tell you that regardless of where in the world you take your examples from, the majority of people prefer to live among those who are pretty much like them. This is a known fact of human psychology and not even disputed by anyone in that field. I like to remember decades ago when I was taking an intercity bus home from Toronto. A black guy got on, and as he came up the aisle I felt a sense of "ugh, he's going to sit next to me" and he did. Oh well, but then he started talking. And guess what? He had no accent (almost all Black people then were immigrants/refugees). He was raised in Canada. He was, in other words, pretty much like me. My feelings about him completely changed in a minute.
It's not skin colour. It's a desire to be around people we can relate to, communicate with, and who we feel a sense of kinship for. The less people are like us, in terms of how they dress, how they talk, how they think, their religious beliefs and values, the less comfortable the majority of people are in living among them.
Interesting. I react the same way but more related to language and religion than to anything else. I prefer people with whom I share a common language and who hold to a higher character. For example, the smell of alcohol or tobacco or marijuana on a person will certainly repel me far more than his skin colour ever would.
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1 minute ago, Argus said:
Why pick on white anglos? I recall reading a paper on tourism a few years back which pointed out that while Quebecers (French Quebecrs) loved to go south to Florida almost none had the slightest interest in going anywhere in Canada west of Ottawa. In addition, of course, if your area is Chinese it's because a lot of Chinese looked over the available places to live, and selected the place that was Chinese, just like Indians do, just like Somalis do, just like Italians and Portugese used to do.
Indeed they do. But if you got to know them better, it usually had more to do with a preference for a particular language than for a particular race, ethnicity, or nationality, interestingly enough.
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9 hours ago, taxme said:
Most Anglo white people do not like living in East Indian neighborhoods. They leave those areas when they are starting to be taken over by other ethnic people. Personally, I could not live in an area where I was just about to find out that I soon will be one of the last of the Mohicans. I tend to want to be with my own white Anglo people. I guess that makes me a racist, eh? Aw well.
So who's responsible for that segregation: the non-Anglos who welcome you into their community or the Anglos who choose to leave?
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29 minutes ago, Goddess said:
I think this needs to be reiterated. Canada ranks consistently as one of the most tolerant populations on the planet, while Muslim lands consistently rank as the least tolerant. And yet some are trying to convince us that Canadians are the least tolerant and Muslim nations are the most tolerant.
Are we talking about states or individuals? Yes, Canada, like Singapore and a few other countries around the world, enjoys a reputation for being welcoming of foreigners whereas many 'Muslim' states tend to be much less tolerant. That does not necessarily reflect the individual level though. Welcoming and bigotted people come in every form.
It's worth noting too that the desire for ethnic exclusivity is not unique to immigrant communities. Just look at how English and French Canadians like to segregate themselves too.
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59 minutes ago, turningrite said:
It's interesting that Machjo has no concerns about living in an ethnoburb. I suspect that most multi-generational Canadians wouldn't be overly concerned either. But I wonder whether his neighbours are so welcoming of him? I only ask this because, as I noted in a post earlier in this string, several years ago when my parents still resided in the Toronto area they spent a year living in a rented home in a newly constructed middle-class ethnoburb. At first they felt comfortable although my mother noted that nobody spoke to them. And then one night they had their car, which they'd left in the driveway, vandalized. When the police arrived to take the report, as was necessary for my parents to file an insurance claim, one officer told my parents that the police were seldom called to the neighbourhood and noted that there had been no similar incidents reported in the area despite the fact that many residences routinely had cars parked in driveways throughout the day and night. As the ethno-racial background of my parents obviously wasn't consistent with that of the neighbourhood, one officer speculated that it was possible the vandalism represented a (not very subtle) message being sent. My parents stayed in the house until the lease expired and then not much later moved out of the GTA, buying a home in another city in a mainly Caucasian but considerably more diverse and welcoming neighbourhood.
I thought of this incident a few years later when a developer's plan to building housing in another GTA ethnoburb was challenged by local residents on grounds that the target demographic market for the proposed medium density housing development was not, apparently, their own ethno-racial community. There was at the time a lot of local media coverage of the situation.. I believe those who worry about the reaction of multi-generational (i.e. European) Canadians to demographic change should pay equal attention to the troubling desire within some newcomer communities to foster ethno-racial and cultural exclusivity.
Prejudice exists in every community. So far though, I've been quite well received in my 'ethno-burb.'
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On 7/27/2011 at 9:29 AM, kimmy said:
The idea of homogenous Muslim neighborhoods isn't quite the "mosaic" we multicultural-loving Canadians were sold on, is it?
I don't think homogenous ethnic enclaves in our cities is a good idea. People become Canadianized by mixing amongst Canadians.
-k
I live in a part of Scarborough that's majority Chinese. When I lived in Ottawa, it was majority English. When I lived in Gatineau, it was majority French. In Ontario alone, we have English secular, French secular, English Catholic, and French Catholic school boards and one English Protestant school board. Quebec has French and English school boards. Why do Anglo-Canadians criticize others for forming their own neighbourhoods when English Canadians do the exact same thing. We sometimes hear of white flight, which even raises the question of whether English self-segregation in fact creates these neighbourhoods and Anglo-Canadians leave to create their own homogeneous neighbourhoods.
By the way, I'm a white French Canadian living in Scarborough. If I adopted the mentality of the average Ango, I'd be moving out of there so I could live with 'my own kind' and then I'd complain about Scarborough being too Chinese when it's probably so because too many Anglos didn't like living with Chinese and so moved out. Don't criticize others for doing exactly what you yourself do.
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8 hours ago, Argus said:
You are focusing on the stat holiday even though the mandated day off wasn't the intent of the OP in launching this discussion.
Ethnic traditions have changed throughout history. It's one of the few constants. Why why should shifting traditions surprise me?
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32 minutes ago, Iznogoud said:
Quite so. The government of Canada is between a rock and a hard place. It wishes to have Canada do its part in reducing global greenhouse gas emissions, but is under pressure from the oil producing provinces to get their oil to market. The simplest way to get people to use less energy is to raise prices through some sort of tax - remember that the jump in oil prices in the 1970s had a marked effect on fuel efficiency in automobiles and building construction.
There are other ways to do this, one being that the government could actually give people tax breaks for buying hybrid or electric cars. Of course that would result in an immediate uproar from those who oppose subsidizing green energy and from the oil industry which does not want to see a drop in fuel consumption.
Either way the government is going to face severe criticism; either from environmentalists or those who support the oil industry.
No need to subsidize. Just make the carbon tax a tax shift rather than a tax increase. This would result in tax reductions in all other industries to compensate.
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9 minutes ago, Argus said:
The day off is only a small part of it. It's the whole month long cultural festival of eating, partying, gift-giving, music, decorations, visits and shopping which leads up to it.
You just proved my point. Even though most of December is not a statutory month-long holiday, people still manage to celebrate it. So why do they need Christmas as a statutory holiday to celebrate that too? In fact, it's somewhat insulting to Christians. It's like saying that they couldn't find the time to celebrate it without entrenching it into the law even though people still find time to celebrate halloween and other religious holidays.
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9 minutes ago, dialamah said:
Hard to say, I know there are exceptions for sick people, and I think for pregnant/nursing women and young children. Good question, think I will ask someone.
And I remember reading an exception for the elderly too. I don't profess Islam anyway; but I can imagine that a hard manual labourer would need to think seriously about adopting Islam if it didn't allow him to eat even in moderation in the daytime during Ramadan.
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1 minute ago, dialamah said:
I think in some cases they should not, due to lack of food resulting in potential safety issues.
Perhaps in hard manual labour; but then I'd imagine that the Qur'an would allow them to eat at least in moderation. I'd have to refer to the Qur'an again for this, but I can't imagine that no exception would have been made for such a situation.
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2 hours ago, dialamah said:
We get two days off, plus a day or two at Easter. Thank you Christianity. Perhaps we need a month of stats for Ramadan?
Muslims work on Ramadan.
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2 hours ago, dialamah said:
We get two days off, plus a day or two at Easter. Thank you Christianity. Perhaps we need a month of stats for Ramadan?
Why thank Christianity for the government telling you what day to take off? Why not just guarantee so many days off work every year and let the individual worker decide in consultation with his employer what day he wants off? Would that not be even better in a supposedly-free society? What business is it of the government what day I get off?
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2 hours ago, dialamah said:
Given how wide spread Christmas has become and how much money is spent by the public, would it still be considered a "religious" holiday? Perhaps renamed "Solstice Festival" would enable us to retain the consumerism and dispense with the religiosity. Think of the lack of Christmas Carols in the mall!
People celebrate all kinds of non-statutory holidays, so what says that different people can't celebrate Christmas, Solstice Festival, and other holidays too. With different people celebrating different holidays, team work could ensure we cover them all. Let the Christians celebrate Christmas to cover that base, and the rest of us can cover the other bases.
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6 hours ago, turningrite said:
So, you favor the complete secularization of society where religious symbolism and observance is removed from the public sphere? I lean more in that direction as each day passes.
Not entirely. Let's take the UK as an example. The official state religion (i.e. the established church) of the UK is the Anglican Faith, so it would make perfect sense for at least non-essential government workers to get the day off on Christian holidays.
Even though Canada has no official religion, the Christian Faith comes closest to that with the Separate schol system, so it could make sense in Canada too. But it should not spill over into the private sector.
That said, I suppose that the state could make a law recognizing the right of any person who works in a non-essential serive to have his religious holy days off. This would give Christians who work in non-essential services holiday priority on those days.
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22 hours ago, Argus said:
It's necessary for a society to have common cultural touchstones. And Christmas as celebrated in the private 'sphere' is already mostly a happy Christmas festival with little or no religious overtones.
Is a common day off really the epitome of a common culture? How will we ever integrate shift workers?
Islamification of Toronto?
in Local Politics in Canada
Posted
I doubt many 'choose' to not learn English. Studies do show that English spelling is around three times more difficult to learn than those of Finnish, German, and Greek and English overall is around ten times more difficult to learn than Esperanto for instance as a basis for comparison. People understand the importance of English and so do try to learn it; but due to its difficulty, it can take time for them to learn it and so adjusting to work and do business in a language that they already know in the mean time is a natural survival mechanism. Not everyone has the necessary aptitude to learn a difficult language well.