Machjo

Well, we learn something new every day. I think I may have read that somewhere before, but have never heard her speak French to the best of my memory. Certainly a monarch residing in Canada, in Ottawa, a somewhat bilingual city not far from the truly bilingual Montreal and even monolingual French-speaking towns across his Canadian realm would likely use his French much more frequently and publicly than the Queen in England. The Queen may be near France, but that's beyond her realm nonetheless. A more publicly French-speaking monarch would likely achieve the results I'd mentioned in my previous posts. Again, I don't believe it would serve as a panacea, and tense French-English relations would certainly continue; but it might alleviate the tension somewhat at least if monolingual Frencophone Canadians could identify at least a little more with the monarch. They might still remain mostly republican, but it might smoothen the those edges at least a little bit.

Then again, if Prince William committed himself to learning French, a French-English bilingual monarch, while certainly not a panacea for French-Engish relations in Canada, would go far towards appeasing French Canadians to some degree at least in that it would no longer be just the GG, but the King himself who'd know French, which could possibly lead to more acceptance of him from Quebec, especially if he plays well on the French connection in the history of the English monarchy.

On a serious note, it would be quite fascinating to invite Prince William as Canada's GG. if he accepted the position, once crowned king, if he should choose to remain in Canada, then the UK would have to appoint a GG and Canada would no longer need one. It could be humourouse to see the reaction on both sides of the Atlantic. I really would be curious to see the fallout from that.

Does the selection have to be from Canada? If not, then my pick would be... Rowan Sebastian Atkinson He'd add some spice to Canadian politics. I just know he would.

Actually, criticisms of capitalism can be interpreted outside the political sphere, not necessarily in terms of promoting any change in laws, but rather in one's personal behaviour within that system. I'm guessing even the most rabid of libertarians would agree that the more capitalistic a society is, the more important it is for each member of that society to take on more responsibility for his society of his own accord seeing that in such a system the government is not there to stand up for the most vulnerable members of society. Clearly an extreme libertarian society could function only if the members of that society take it upon themselves to care for their fellow citizens, otherwise such a society would be doomed to fail. If understood in that context, which I'm sure is how the G intended for it to be taken, then there is no political overtone there. It would not be about opposing any kind of capitalistic system, but merely pointing out one's increased responsibilities within such a system, as compared to a socialist system where individual responsibilities are considerably reduced.

It's their choice, and they put up with the consequences.

I certainly do not believe that money should trump everything else. However, the Olympics are not exactly a basic necessity. We should not be spending exorbitant amounts on translation for an unnecessary event while people sleep in the streets. It's a matter of priorities.

Most who travel to such areas stick to the beaten paths of resorts or major venues like the Olympics of course. But if they decide to do that, then they do so of their own choosing.

Before the 2008 Olympics, the Beijing government went on an all-out campaign to have all of its residents learn English. In order for a taxi driver to be allowed to work during the Olympic period, for instance, he'd have to pass a basic English test targeting the specific conversational language he'd be most likely to need for the tasks related to his job. The same applied to man other service industries too. I was in Beijing a few months before the Beijing Olympics, and English was absolutely everywhere. Bear in mind though that most of them had just enough English to perform the most basic tasks of their job and could certainly not perform anywhere beyond that. I'd tested a few just for fun, but in the end, speaking in Chinese was much more pleasant since my Mandarin was better than their English. And since the Olympics, Beijing has been suffering from an English hangover so to speak. As it turns out, many residents had complained that their English was still not sufficient enough even after all that effort. Also, as it turned out, Beijing was not prepared for the onslaught of visitors who knew neither English nor Chinese, causing even more frustration as taxi drivers and others struggled to understand their guests' 'English', often thinking it was just another accent. This was due in part to the excess emphasis in the Beijing media on English prior to the Olympics, resulting in many assuming that all at the games must necessarily know English, and so not taking the time to actually listen to their guest to realize they weren't speaking English. My guess is, under normal circumstances, if left to themselves, they could have figured out it wasn't English that their guest was speaking. But because of all the media buzz around English, it was as if they'd suspend disbelief and insist it must be some kind of English and keep trying to communicate with the guest in English when they could have saved everyone some hassles by finding other means to communicate, like the phrase books many would likely have had on them anyway. I myself had experienced this suspension of belief on a few occasions. In one notable instance, though this was a few years before the Olympics (I've traveled a few times to China and around China). I was having a conversation with a friend when a stranger walked up to me to practice his English. Of course he spoke to me in English, I understood, and answered him in the same language I was speaking with my friend, out of respect for my friend so as to keep him in the conversation since he did not know English. My friend would then interpret into Chinese. The conversation went on for about one minute before the student finally clued in that I could understand him, but he could not understand me, but that my friend could. He finally interrupted my friend and asked him in Chinese why my friend could understand me, but he couldn't. (Now interestingly enough, many monolingual Chinese could usually figure out very quickly that I wasn't speaking English, as some had asked me on occasion what language I was speaking. They could figure it out by the pronunciation of the language. Yet this person, possessing at least a basic level of fluency in English, though with some obvious limitations, seemed to have not even considered that possibility). Though I could have interrupted in Chinese myself, I was starting to find this to be amusing. In fact, I could see a smirk on my friend's face too, as it was obvious that he was amused by the situation too. So my friend answered him saying that I was speaking 世界语 (the Chinese word for Esperanto, translated literally as 'world language'). Then things really became amusing. The stranger, not familiar with the word in his own language, started saying that he spoke English too, thinking my friend was referring to English. My friend then interrupted him saying that 世界语 was not English, as the smirk on both both our faces widened. The guy, totally perplexed, then went on to say that English was the international language, was it not? At that stage, my friend started berating him for learning English but not knowing his own language, because 世界语 is the name of another language. Then the guy, totally perplexed, asked why I wasn't speaking English, to which I responded, again in Esperanto, that I did so to include my friend in the conversation. Finally, the guy, totally confused, simply walked away. Similar though not quite as amusing situations had occurred before, sometimes with French, sometimes with English. On one occasion, I was speaking Chinese with two men, one who knew English and one who didn't. The Englih-speaker was speaking to me in English, I'd answered in Chinese, and he looked perplexed, looked at his friend saying he couldn't understand my English, and his friend, laughing at him, jumped into the conversation in Chinese. Once the other friend clued in, we had no more problems. As you can see, it just makes things much less confusing if you just adopt one language and stick to it. So yes, I don't wee why the Beijing Olympics could not be held in Chinese only, and so the equivalent applies to any other Olmpics really.

You bring up a good point here. Canada is way too diverse to squeeze all of its cultures into a two-hour show. Just Vancouver's and the West Coast's cultures are quite diverse enough. West Coast Salish could have gotten more airtime for example. Likewise, in the Quebec City Olympics, Innu Wendat could get more exposure too for example.

Fair enough. So in that case, why would we need to spend money on English if the local language is French anyway. Even if English were provided at the Olympics, except for the Old City, the hotels of which would likely be exorbitantly expensive, most of Quebec city is monolingual French speaking unless you count the ability to give directions in very broken English as bilingual. Add to that that if we required the Quebec City Olympics to function in English, there'd even be the risk that whatever English-language resources available in the city would get sucked up by the Olympics, thus leaving the rest of the city even more monolingual than usual! The same likely applies to the Vancouver Olympics with French by the way. Many French-speaking Vancouverites who would otherwise provide services in French in the local economy, ended up serving in the Vancouver games, leaving the rest of the city even less Francophone than usual. If they can't communicate in restaurants, hotels, etc., why would they care so much about less important venues like games? So looking at it practically, having the games in one language, the local language, would save a lot of money without causing much hardship for people from around the world.

Of course it would. If the Olympics were held only in French, then it wouldn't be as pleasant for the others unless they knew French. I still don't see how your comment about other nationalities related though, as it was quite presumptuous to assume that the whole world knows English, and that somehow English would solve all of their language problems.

On that front I do agree with you that as long as the federal Government is financing the games, then French and English ought to be included.

I fully agree that as long as there is federal government funding, it makes sense to provide them bilingually. I was simply presenting an alternative option whereby if the federal government weren't involved, then we could leave it at the local language and that would save some money. I guess the bottom line is that the federal government should never have funded the games to begin with.

Then we don't need to waste our money maintaining suburban streets anymore, unless farmers decide to move closer to the city and take over the former suburbs in which case we needn't waste so much money on rural streets anymore.

Enough to ensure that all funding for road construction come exclusively from the gas tax and not income tax?

And another point: how are English and French helping the Norwegian, Korean, German, etc. unless they're among the elites of their society who know the language, in which case they could pay for their own interpretation.

So are you suggesting the games ought to be held in English, Norwegian, Korean, German, etc. etc. etc. too? Where do we stop? Select a local language, and leave it at that. In Quebec city, French would have sufficed, then those who want to see it either learn French or just tune out and watch the games. Then when the games are held in Seoul, same thing. Either you learn Korean or you put up with it. And when the games are in Oslo, same thing. Likewise in Berlin, etc. etc. etc. Honestly, how many French Canadians are there in Vancouver watching the games among those who don't know English? Seldom deos a monolingual dare to venture outside his language area. The same would apply with the Olympics in Quebec City.

Now that's a consistent position, and I respect that. I too agree that if the games had been held in Quebec city, providing English interpretation would have been a waste of money. Most attendees would likely come from French-speaking countries anyway, and any TV coverage would likely be either dubbed if it's live, or maybe subtitled otherwise. Likewise, as far as the Vancouver Olympics are concerned, if it weren't for French being one of the IOC's official languages, I could certainly agree with English-only Olympics in Vancouver.

Ah, more stereotypes. I'm a native French speaker and I don't sound like that at all. In fact, if you heard me speaking in English, though my accent is not totally English Canadian (my dad is British so I'd picked up a little bit of his accent), it certainly does not sound like your usual stereotyping. Mind you, those Quebecers who do speak like that would certainly benefit from French so that they could actually understand what was going on at the games.

Ah, gotta love stereotypes.

Now I'm veering a little off topic, but I can't help myself here. I've found that among non-English speakers, monolinguals have a certain desire to learn a second language. Most fail, granted, but at least they make a reasonable effort. Among native English-speaking monolinguals, it seems they view monolingualism as a norm to strive for. Considering all the options available, there really isn't an excuse to be monolingual. If French is too hard, try Dutch, or an even easier language. I don't know if sign languages are easier or not, but they might be something to look into too. I'd met a Quebecer in La Malbaie of all places (it's a small town with a population of about 20,000 if that) who'd learn Spanish on her own. She thought English to be too difficult to learn considering she had no environment to practice it, but she still saw a value in learning a second language even if only for the cultural benefits it could bring as well as opening the mind. English was too difficult for her, so she went for Spanish. I'd met a few Chinese who'd learnt Esperanto because they'd heard it was an easier language to learn too. If French is too difficult for a monolingual English-speaker, he could try Dutch, German, Esperanto, or maybe a sign language if it's easier. But just to learn a second language so as to open their minds. Yet they won't even make the effort in spite of all the options before them.

True enough.

I should also point out that while I oppose official bilingualism at least in its current form, it's mainly out of concerns for administrative efficiency. On that front, I actually agree with the idea of Quebec having French as its sole official language, though I also agree that Bill 101 goes way, way too far. However, I could see other provinces following Quebec's example in establishing one official language, though certainly not like Bill 101 obviously. Such a policy would save them money, just as it saves the Quebec government money in necessary translation costs, bilingual language training for public service employees, etc. I could also see the federal government decentralizing more to the provinces. I must say though that when bigots step in to oppose French per se on ethnic grounds, it embarrasses me to find myself in favour of policies similar to what these same bigots support. I should point out that though some of the policies I support might be similar to some of the policies these bigots support, the motives behind the support are totally different. I also support such policies as applied equally on all sides of the language barrier, and not so one-sidedly. I guess that's where our ideas differ most drastically. I should point out too that these bigots also shoot themselves in the foot because some people who might agree with some of their policies in principle but for radically different reasons, might end up distancing themselves from those ideas out of fear of being associated with such bigots.

Actually, I have a few other interesting anecdotes from real life. On one occasion, I was at a public meeting discussing interlinguistic and intercultural relations of all things. The interpretor had just graduated from university with a master's in English-Chinese interpretation. At the meeting, we had myself with a Canadian accent, a Cameroonian, an Australian, and a Pakistani. The interpretor could understand me just fine, but once the others started speaking, all fell apart. I started repeating what the others were saying since she could understand my accent. After a few minutes, she'd started to tune into the Australian's accent. After about an hour, she started to understand the Cameroonian accent, but with much difficulty. And she never quite got a hang of the Pakistani accent. Needless to say, the meeting got a few giggles. After the meeting, her boss, who happened to be my friend, was thinking fo firing her. Lucky for her, I'd met others of her kind before and so was well aware that there'd be no point in replacing her since everyone at that university only listed to recordings of American and British accents, and that was it. I'd suggested he give her three months to improve. Afterwards, unlike others who always gravitate to North Americans and Britons to practice their English, she started making friends with anyone. After three months, he ability to understand these different accents improved considerably. But this just goes to show how even trained interpretors can find it difficult. And in my opinion, the accents of the participants were quite mild. On another occasion, I was in a restaurant with an English teacher of all people. Next to us sat a lone Pakistani. He and I started a conversation, but the teacher never participated. Once we were finished eating and left the restaurant, the teacher asked me if we were speaking English. I answered that we were, and surprised at the question inquired why she'd asked. She answered that she thought he was speaking English because I was speaking to him in English, but she could not understand a word of his. I was surprised, since in my opinion, his accent was quite light.