Sir Bandelot

To be an effective poster in this place, one has to employ a certain sense of humour.

Well I thought we were having a fairly intelligent discussion on probing what's at the heart of the matter. I don't expect either of us to come up with real answers. Just food for thought. On the other hand I don't understand your criticism that "it makes it difficult for people to make progress in the discussion". Did you read the next 20 or so posts? How's this for making progress?

We are not mechanistic machines but people of flesh and bone. We are impulsive, we make mistakes. We perceive right and wrong. We crave justice. And justice is based on morality. So morality is relevant to this discussion. When I am living in a state of justice, I am satisfied with my life. I don't feel desire for change. A sense of justice prevents mass rioting, for example. People may not be able to nail down what it is that makes them feel unsettled, but they know when they're getting screwed. And people are great imitators. If we believe we're being screwed by those who hold power over us, it doesn't take long for us to start doing some screwing, ourselves. Vengeful screwing, that is.

Some. Many, to varying degrees. But surely not all. If objectively means only saying nice, supportive positive things, that's useless. Criticism is necessary for steering and correction. There is no stable condition whereafter everything continues to work well, forever. Decay always creeps in. For more information, see the second law of thermodynamics. The Roman empire fell, not just because there were too many barbarians at the gate, but due to internal corruption and failed economics. Same thing with the USSR. An over-extended military was the final straw. Polarization and non-cooperation are perhaps the most insidious part of the problem. I say the root of our problem begins in our brains, in moral decay and selfishness. There needs to be a cultural revolution in the west. But alas, we have closed too many doors on our own past. We've gone far down that liberal road, that through equality destroys culture, removes morality and critical judgement and leaves us only with nihilistic existentialism. For most of us there is no reason to help our brothers and sisters. Only a catastrophe will change our minds.

I read somewhere that about half their budget is in the military. Wherever public money gets used to such an extent for so long, there will be abuses and inefficiency. Seems there should be room to make some cuts there. We talk about welfare people being drunk and lazy, living on public money. These organizations need to be scrutinized, trimmed, made leaner and meaner. From this perspective the military is a left-wing, socialist organization!

Not all the wealthy are thieves, probably not even most of them. The bad guys make it into the news, and what matters is perception. Just because something has persisted for a while now does not make it above moral criticism. Humans have been greedy and evil since day one, and all empires eventually decay into corruption. That internal decay is what eventually brings empires down. Resistance and reform is what makes it live. If you are willing to accept it by making excuses, that's up to you.

You can deny all you want. That is your opinion. History stands.

Two additional comments: - Entitlement exists at all levels. Yes even the wealthy believe they are entitled to live better than most of us, and help themselves to money that's not really theirs. We saw that when governments handed out public money to shore up corporations that were faltering, and soon after we heard about big bonuses being handed out to the executives. Sure, it's not the same as smashing a window and grabbing a TV, but tell me how that is not a sense of entitlement? White collar crime has its ways. - Police standing down and allowing the situation to escalate, like doing nothing while watching people set fires only leads to greater violence and consequent public outrage. Then the response will be much harsher. Security measures need to be increased. People will condone the loss of their own freedom, out of fear for violence. The only way to preserve our liberty is to use appropriate measures in time, to maintain civility.

Very interesting to hear the views right from the street. The guy at the end of the video did make the point, "They're letting them come in here and take our jobs. We've got no jobs." But I think the discontentment covers a wider spectrum than just that. Among other things there is resentment against authority, pent up frustration from long-term abuse. And yes, these rioters are not sidewalk philosophers, most of them probably couldn't verbalize why they want to smash things up. Some of them are even doing alright by many standards, have a job and a home. Like the teacher mentioned earlier. Maybe a lot of them are opportunists. Then the question must be, why do we breed so many who have no ethical dilemma in joining in the wanton destruction of their society?

Nonsense, there's lots of jobs here. Not necessarily the highest paying ones but if you're willing to work hard and start off with lower pay, you'll get somewhere. It's not necessary to lead an extravagant, materialist lifestyle. Happiness does not depend on it anyway. Even here in my small town, where housing is affordable and crime is low, you can find work. It just depends on how determined you are.

Every member? Can you prove that? By the way, you use to many commas in your sentences.

For some, technology is the messiah. For others, the messiah is the messiah.

While this sounds good in principle, I cannot personally speak to what the General said about it. Just showing what was said, by someone I would acknowledge as an expert. His criticism remains unanswered.

More to the point of this thread... why should I want to put a "support our troops" sticker on my car, when we do things like that.

Here we go again. Reductio ad Sept. 11... Bosnia and Kosovo, that was terrorism? No, of course not. I think what the General said sounds important. Something about law, illegal war, stuff like that. I suppose he ought to know, he is a General after all.

Ok, don't get so defensive over your latest faux pas... no need to apologize

Yes I know that. Two events that our military was involved in. I want you to explain how we fought for our freedom there. You know, how "we fight wars overseas so we don't have to fight them here..."

Ha! Peoples pensions are getting cleaned out, in the mad scramble to get ones dirty fingers on what's left to steal. At least in the past they tried to pretend there was fairness in the system. Now there's no time to put on such airs. Funny thing is, the more the greedy ones eviscerate what's left, the faster she sinks. What a fools game. Another funny thing too, poor peope don't hardly give a care. you can't take from those who don't have. The meek.

We "may" have. Maj-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie thinks we may have not! "Years ago our television screens were dominated by pictures of Kosovo-Albanian refugees escaping across Kosovo's borders to the sanctuaries of Macedonia and Albania. Shrill reports indicated that Slobodan Milosevic's security forces were conducting a campaign of genocide and that at least 100,000 Kosovo-Albanians had been exterminated and buried in mass graves throughout the Serbian province. NATO sprung into action and, in spite of the fact no member nation of the alliance was threatened, commenced bombing not only Kosovo, but the infrastructure and population of Serbia itself -- without the authorizing United Nations resolution so revered by Canadian leadership, past and present."

That's right, carve yourself another slice of the Roast Beast.

QE3 was already spent yesterday. They need QE4 now. They have no problem using the peoples tax money to shore up banks and multi-million dollar corporations, to try and strengthen the economy. Meanwhile those who already have money get rich off the downfall... Interesting brand of socialism.

True, I don't recall the Bosnians threatenting to take our freedoms away

I don't recall there ever being a "war for free-speech" in Canada.

Or better yet, stay and continue to criticize the system, for our benefit.