stevoh

Nah, relative humidity climbing, temperature increasing, almost null visibility, people choking on the air, what does that have to do with climate? Its proof of man made climate change on a local level. Doesn't take much to realize that the vast amount of the same toxins being released on a global level will eventually have a similar effect.

Man has already changed the climate and there is proof. In the early 1900's in London, smog was so bad that it left residue on all exterior surfaces and people choked to death. The combination of the coal fired industrial revolution and coal heating meant that my Grandmothers parents stuffed socks under the doors during smog to prevent the choking fumes and residue from entering the house. She distinctly remembers slimy grayish yellow socks being pulled from under the doors when the smog lifted. Up to 4000 people died during these smogs. It was only when the London Clean air act came into force that these deadly smogs were stopped once and for all. http://edugreen.teri.res.in/explore/air/smog.htm We have already changed the climate, proven, on a local level, to the point where it was deadly. How anyone could think that pumping the same gases on a much larger scale into the atmosphere would not have an effect on a global level is beyond me.

What is wrong with setting an example? One of the first excuses bush used when he utterly rejected Kyoto is "China isn't doing it." As long as every country looks to another to lead the way, and none do, nothing happens. Why can't Canada be a leader? Also, why can't we step forward and prove that money can be made using alternative energy sources? A few year ago Coke observed that health conscious consumers were making choices other than pop. They started Minute Maid Juices and later, sport drinks. And they still make money. Its time for big oil to diversify as well. Invest in wind energy technology, solar. Diversify and cash in on this latest trend. Its time to stop whining, pointing fingers at everyone else, and start leading.

"I woudn't trust these types at all. It is healthy to question them - despite what you may be sold by them." I don't understand groupthink at all either, a lot of foolish decisions get made when no-one questions. Definitely, think for yourself and make up your own mind.

"The water being warmer than 4 degrees in the high arctic is not being forecasted by anyone. That is an inane assumption." So all that land based ice melting won't have an effect? And global warming will suddenly just stop if we do nothing? That seems more innane to me. "No one knows how this is going to pan out. Your assumption that we will presumably swimming and laying about the beach off of baffin island is laughable." I have not made that assumption. This is getting boring. Got some real global warming elements to debate?

So, you accept that the ice might melt, but then don't accept that the water will get warmer? THAT is quite the assumption. Global warming isn't we get hotter then stop. Global warming is, as we add more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, we continue getting warmer. Thats why we want to reduce carbon emmissions. Of course, and I think this was mentioned before, land based ice such as that in the north pole or on greenland WILL impact ocean levels because the ice is not resting on water.

"well there goes the credibility of your link poser. The ice is already in the Ocean. It melting would have ZERO effect on water levels as it is already in the water. Any moron knows this. In fact, it may reduce sea levels as ice is less dense than water. Yes, and as any moron knows the ice covering the ocean is not the only ice to be found in the arctic. Yes and any moron can see that is NOT what that quote is referrign to. Thanks for coming out though." Well, besides the friendly tone of communication exchange here, I also noticed something else. Yes, if ice is resting on water, and it melts, there is no net increase in the volume of water. The volume the ice displaces is replaced by the melted water. Sea level won't reduce however, as, even though ice is less dense than water, it also protrudes from the water, making up for the difference. However, and this is why global warming and sea ice melting matter, WARMER WATER TAKES UP MORE SPACE THAN COLD (non frozen) water. The warmer the water, the more space it takes. Water is most dense at 4.0 degrees centigrade. As it heats up, it becomes less dense (expands). So, sea levels will rise when ice melts due to the water expanding as it gets warmer.