jefferiah

I am defending the right of those who believe as Christianity has for years that homosexuality is a sin. You say it is our interpretation, well thats our right. We are not trying to attack gays or beat them up. We just want to be able to say its against our faith to be homosexual without being legislated against by human rights groups. Any other interpretation of the Christian view on homosexuality is fairly recent, and waters down all historic and traditional sexual ethics, and changes it to suit whatever lifestyle the individual enjoys. If you want to start a Gay Reform Church I cannot stop you. But dont tell me my church has to change its view on homosexuality.

You werent the one who said jesus condoned homosexuality. You are the one who said it was presumptious to assume he didnt.

Barring a black man or an asian from a bar because of skin color is lot different than calling a woman a a dog. He called her a dog cuz he detests her character, not cuz she is a woman.

On the contrary. I do not tollerate smoking. I do think I'm better than they are, especially in aerobic activities..... .....on the otherhand, very few people have their lives defined as smokers....no one would deny employment to a smoker, refuse to marry smokers.....smoking is an activity, homosexuality is not. Your problem is you equate being gay with lifestyles and handicaps.....try equating being gay with being chinese....or left handednes...or being a short plump woman...... ..........then see if you are not being a pretentious prat. I never said smoking and being gay were the same thing, I said that thinking something is wrong does not presuppose intolerance. I never said gays should be denied jobs. But I think they could leave gayness at the door. I worked at a job with a gay guy said some of the most vulgar things around the office, and did alot of things that would have constituted a serious harrassment charge if a man had said the equivalent to a woman. But nobody dared to complain about him, for fear of him playing the bigot card. Anyways, I know all gays are not like that, either. And also yes, smoking is now starting to be considered in hiring. And alot of people wont date smokers. The was an Alberta pastor not so long ago who wrote to the government to complain about his tax dollars funding so many gay rights groups, which sometimes make ridiculous use of tons of money. I know people who do not feel being gay is wrong who think that no one should have to fund this. Anyways, maybe you dont agree with that. Thats fine. The point is the pastor is facing human rights charges for writing and complaining about this. Seriously, I think all humans deserve rights and humane treatment but when the human rights groups are now condemning people for statements or for disagreeing with them, i think they may be going overboard. Who is forcing whose beliefs on who?

How did McKay generalize women as being weaker Jah-man? he called belinda stronach a dog, not all women....woop dee doo.....some NDP woman called Stockwell Day a Cockroach....childish maybe....but I dont think that just because someone from the opposite sex insults a man its cuz she is a female chauvinist. I am sure Belinda has muttered enough insults about people under her breath. A Belinda supporter on this thread here, in another thread referred to me as a Prat. Whatever a prat is. Woopidee Diddly Doo

To start with I do not know what planet you come from, but on the planet earth the medical and scientific communities have long since come to the conclusion that one's sexual drive is genetically programmed and homo-sexuality is a natural built in mechanism in all life forms not just humans. You may wish to venture outside yoru comfort zone and read up on scientific studies where the brains of lesbians (don't worry they were dead) were examined and the structure of the brains, the coils were similiar to those of males and NOT females clearly proving that homo-sexuality is defined by chromosones, hormones, and a myriad of chemicals and physical biological mattre predisposed or pre-designed in the dna code. Here is the point. You are absolutely dead wrong when say there is no scientific evidence and all you have to do is read. That said environmental conditioning can shape sexual behaviour but it does not necessarily make it permanent. For example, men in prison will engage in homo-sexuality but it doesn't make them homo-sexuals. They revert back to hetero-sexuality the moment they can get their hands on a woman Likewise men who are molested as children don't magically turn gay. It doesn't work that way. There are again oodles of studies to show that children of gay parents don't turn gay because they have same sex parents. Despire your using coded Christian words of mercy and kindness to describe yourself, for you equate homo-sexuality to alcoholism, violence, and/or crime are expressions of hatred based on your inability come come to terms with homo-sexuality. You will have to look inside yourself to figure that one out. What I can say to you is that vaving sex with someone of the same sex is not self-destructive, its not violent and in fact it is quite healthy if someone is genuinely gay and with another genuinely gay person and the medical community long since declassified being gay as a mental illness or a crime. Sexual acts between consenting adults and that is the key, between consenting adults are not right or wrong-they are a private matter of expression that those two adults and only those two adults can define their meaning and context not you. Sorry but for you to make blanket statements that homo-sexuality is akin to a substance abuse problem or criminal violence is hateful not just ignorant because you are now imposing negative motives to the minds of gay people and that is intellectually dishonest. Look Rue I am not stopping people from being gay. But I have a right to believe its wrong and to profess that belief. I never said gays were like alcoholics or criminals or as bad or better, I said that those things can also be said to have been determined by genetics. You dont know me. You dont know if my words or my meanings are coded or not. You are making a lot generalizations about me. To say that not believing homosexuality is right, is to be a closet homosexual is also preposterous. Thats like saying women who complain about a man grabbing their chest in the workplace really want it. Actually you should do a lot more reading. I am on this planet. Alot of scientists, and scientific journals have posted that there is no proof of gay genetics. Even argued such. Whenever there is an iota of support for the born gay theory, it is pushed hard in the media however, this is because it is considered safer to promote the science to the public that is less offensive to any sort of activist. That said I have a gay friend, and I am able to be friends with him despite the fact that I believe being gay is immoral. This is what tolerance really is. I dont have to be a liberal or agree with Liberal policies to get along with my friends and neighbours who are Liberal, or a Conservative, or a Liberatarian, or anything else. I never started this thread. I just responded with my own reasons for saying that I dont think Jesus would have condoned homosexuality as much as modern people would like to be believe, using the fact that he was merciful and compassionate as their argument. This was in direct response originally to a poster who said Jesus would condone gay marriage. This assertion was made about Jesus, long before M Dancer accused the church of "being presumptious on what God thinks." Well I thought the poster who said these things about Jesus were presumptious before I was.

Right after somone provides a short list of distinct Alberta customs and traditions. Or indeed, distinct Canadian customs or traditions. Or American... The rest of Canada isnt demanding to be viewed as special.

I dont decide who adopts who. All I am saying is I support the church's freedom to declare its belief that homosexuality is a sin. This does not mean homosexuals are being kicked out of Church either. Some will say but its a passive discrimination because this is saying that they are doing something wrong and this will offend them and drive them away. But this was not put into place to drive them out. This has been the position of the Church for years. Everybody who sits in a Church is guilty of something the Church condemns. We can't change their standards cause we dont like them. And actually there are many homosexuals who have opted for the opinion that homosexuality is a sin, the church was right, and they have no problem being accepted and fighting what they consider and evil temptation. So therefore it cannot be said that the Church saying homosexuality is wrong is excluding homosexuals. A practicing homosexual is allowed to go to Church. If he does not like their position on homosexuality, he doesnt have to stay there. If you dont want to shave your head, give up meat, you dont have to join a Rinzai Buddhist Monastery.

1) You're interpretation of what the bible says may in itself be wrong 2) The bible is often wrong 3) Times change 4) many people do not believe in the bible 5) Call it a sin, but keep your opinion to yourself, let it venture into the public arena and impact on the lives others who do not share this presumptious opinion and you may reightfully be called a bigot. I never said you had to agree with the Bible. I said that its not intolerant to call something wrong. To believe something is wrong does not mean you automatically want to go out and persecute people, just as people who dislike smoking are not beating smokers up, or Buddhist sects that believe eating flesh is evil dont attack people who do eat meat. But they do say it is wrong. This is our position. If you want to join their monastery and become a monk there you will have to shave your head and give up the meat. If you dont agree with it, or the Bible. Well, dont join the monastery. But if it is a religions position that something is wrong and it is not allowed to be expressed that something is wrong in public, does a Church count as a public place. What sort of religious freedom is there if a religion cannot say what it believes is right or wrong, but the preacher would be restricted to "keeping his opinion to himself". Even if that sect is operating on its own interpretation of that religion as you say, although I think the Bible does make it pretty clear.

You are quite the self-righteous compassionate Christian aren't you. O.k. let us try show you the same love and mercy I am sure you manifest to gay people. To start with I do not know what planet you come from, but on the planet earth the medical and scientific communities have long since come to the conclusion that one's sexual drive is genetically programmed and homo-sexuality is a natural built in mechacnism in all life forms not just humans. Now again I want to show you mercy and compassion so how about I ask you to actually read something other then what you are comfortable with. Here's a hint. Try read up on scientific studies where the brains of lesbians (don't worry they were dead) were examined and the structure of the brains, the coils were similiar to those of males and NOT females clearly proving that homo-sexuality is defined by chromosones, hormones, and a myriad of chemicals and physical biological mattre predisposed or pre-designed in the dna code. Here is the point. You are absolutely dead wrong when say there is no scientific evidence. That said some of us are genetically predisposed. Environmental conditioning can shape sexual behaviour but it does not necessarily make it permanent. Here is an example to show you why your comments are silly. Men in prison will engage in homo-sexuality but it doesn't make them homo-sexuals. They revert back to hetero-sexuality the moment they can get their hands on a woman. Likewise men who are molested as children don't magically turn gay. It doesn't work that way. There are again oodles of studies to show that children of gay parents don't turn gay because they have same sex parents. Now as for your analogy that homo-sexuality is akin to alcoholism you can use your coded Christian words of mercy and kindness but when you equate homo-sexuality to alcoholism, violence, crime you really are engaging in a passive form of hatred based on ignorance. Having sex with someone of the same sex is not self-destructive, its not violent and in fact it is quite healthy if someone is genuinely gay and with another genuinely gay person. Uh hello, the medical community long since declassified being gay as a mental illness or a crime. Sounds to me like you are a tad hung up on homo-sexuality. Sorry everytime I read someone who uses their religion to suggest homo-sexuality is a sin, I immediately think the writer is repressing his own homo-sexual urges and thus makes such comments because it makes no logical sense. Sexual acts between consenting adults and that is the key, between consenting adults are not right or wrong-they are a private matter of expression that those two adults and only those two adults define. Sorry but for you to make blanket statements that homo-sexuality is akin to a substance abuse problem or criminal violence is hateful not just ignorant because you are now imposing negative motives in the minds of gay people. Let me say this to you with mercy and compassion. Your couching your ignoance and fear of homo-sexuality with religion doesn't make it respectable. I am calling you out on it and I am saying to you, if you want to use religion to discriminate and deem certain people sinful because they do things you are not comfortable with, be my guest but please don't come across as being a loving and compassionate. You aint. I think you have me wrong here. Self-righteousness would imply that I think I am better than gay people. The bible indicates that all men are sinners. I never said gay people should be treated any less than sinners such as I am. I am an adulterer. That is just as bad. But I am a sinner. Thats the point. When a religion does not condone a certain act it does not mean they are intolerant or that they think all those people should be punished and removed from society. Religion does not condone many things I have done in life, but I dont say that they should soften their values or water them down for me. Like many sects of buddhism which promote vegetarianism and call meat-eating a sin. I dont say they are ostracizing me from society because I eat meat. Believing something is a sin is not self-righteous. Believing you are less a sinner than someone is self-righteous. I may be the worse sinner in this whole forum. All I am saying is there is nothing wrong with saying that you believe something is wrong. If you start a religion and you believe painting your toe nails is wrong, thats your business isnt it. many people have a tough view on smoking cigarettes as being wrong, but they tolerate smokers and are kind to them. so being against something does not mean you think you are better. do all anti-smoking people think they are better than smokers simply because they believe smoking is wrong. undoubtedly some do, rue. but to say that you are against smoking does not mean you are a self-righteous persecutor of people who smoke.

You are quite the self-righteous compassionate Christian aren't you. O.k. let us try show you the same love and mercy I am sure you manifest to gay people. To start with I do not know what planet you come from, but on the planet earth the medical and scientific communities have long since come to the conclusion that one's sexual drive is genetically programmed and homo-sexuality is a natural built in mechacnism in all life forms not just humans. Now again I want to show you mercy and compassion so how about I ask you to actually read something other then what you are comfortable with. Here's a hint. Try read up on scientific studies where the brains of lesbians (don't worry they were dead) were examined and the structure of the brains, the coils were similiar to those of males and NOT females clearly proving that homo-sexuality is defined by chromosones, hormones, and a myriad of chemicals and physical biological mattre predisposed or pre-designed in the dna code. Here is the point. You are absolutely dead wrong when say there is no scientific evidence. That said some of us are genetically predisposed. Environmental conditioning can shape sexual behaviour but it does not necessarily make it permanent. Here is an example to show you why your comments are silly. Men in prison will engage in homo-sexuality but it doesn't make them homo-sexuals. They revert back to hetero-sexuality the moment they can get their hands on a woman. Likewise men who are molested as children don't magically turn gay. It doesn't work that way. There are again oodles of studies to show that children of gay parents don't turn gay because they have same sex parents. Now as for your analogy that homo-sexuality is akin to alcoholism you can use your coded Christian words of mercy and kindness but when you equate homo-sexuality to alcoholism, violence, crime you really are engaging in a passive form of hatred based on ignorance. Having sex with someone of the same sex is not self-destructive, its not violent and in fact it is quite healthy if someone is genuinely gay and with another genuinely gay person. Uh hello, the medical community long since declassified being gay as a mental illness or a crime. Sounds to me like you are a tad hung up on homo-sexuality. Sorry everytime I read someone who uses their religion to suggest homo-sexuality is a sin, I immediately think the writer is repressing his own homo-sexual urges and thus makes such comments because it makes no logical sense. Sexual acts between consenting adults and that is the key, between consenting adults are not right or wrong-they are a private matter of expression that those two adults and only those two adults define. Sorry but for you to make blanket statements that homo-sexuality is akin to a substance abuse problem or criminal violence is hateful not just ignorant because you are now imposing negative motives in the minds of gay people. Let me say this to you with mercy and compassion. Your couching your ignoance and fear of homo-sexuality with religion doesn't make it respectable. I am calling you out on it and I am saying to you, if you want to use religion to discriminate and deem certain people sinful because they do things you are not comfortable with, be my guest but please don't come across as being a loving and compassionate. You aint. I think you have me wrong here. Self-righteousness would imply that I think I am better than gay people. The bible indicates that all men are sinners. I never said gay people should be treated any less than sinners such as I am. I am an adulterer. That is just as bad. But I am a sinner. Thats the point. When a religion does not condone a certain act it does not mean they are intolerant or that they think all those people should be punished and removed from society. Religion does not condone many things I have done in life, but I dont say that they should soften their values or water them down for me. Like many sects of buddhism which promote vegetarianism and call meat-eating a sin. I dont say they are ostracizing me from society because I eat meat. Believing something is a sin is not self-righteous. Believing you are less a sinner than someone is self-righteous. I may be the worse sinner in this whole forum. All I am saying is there is nothing wrong with saying that you believe something is wrong. If you start a religion and you believe painting your toe nails is wrong, thats your business isnt it.

If he apologized for the mere insult it would appear to be conceding to the Liberal assertion that he was a sexist and his comment was aimed at all women. The thing is being called a dog is not so hurtful at all. I am sure Belinda's demand for an apology is not over the anguish she suffered. Pffttt.....Peter McKay did not actually use the word dog, but responded to the term dog when it was thrown at him by a liberal MP...and sort of in private. If this were so hurtful and damaging I dont think that Liberal MP would have told the absent Belinda for fear of sending her into a pit of mental despair at being called a dog. No....this is not an insult, but opportunity to the Liberals.

Well the Bible says its wrong more than once.

My point is, the Church should not be called bigoted for calling homosexuality a sin. This is not intolerance. Tolerance means putting up with, not agreeing with and condoning. You can tolerate people you dont agree with. Alot of Vegetarians dont agree with meat-eaters but they live with them right. Its possible to believe homosexuality is a sin, to be able to teach that is a religious freedom. It becomes intolerance when a person tries to exercise unfair treatment or attacks on homosexuals.

Well how about this "God hid these things from the wise and learned and revealed them to little children.." or "God chose the simple things to shame the wise"

Jesus chose fishermen, not Pharisees

yeah most canadians are tim hortons type of guys. why not vote for a tim hortons guy? he is probably more in touch with canada than a second cup guy.

How come there are no Uppies and Downies? I guess there are Uppers and Downers...oh well but those are drugs...anyways....I think that assertion about the educated voting left and the non educated voting right may be a bit presumptious. And actually I would say that being educated has nothing to do with dealing in the real common sense world anyway. Intellectualism is abstraction (though very valuable), and uneducated people often have a much more practical, unconditioned view of things. Seriously life does not conform to abstract formulas. You cant learn life in a book. Intellectual knowledge is only as good as the person writing it. And to say that the educated vote is better than the uneducated is not very far shy of elitism.

80 Small countries with few people are best. Give them all of the things they want, and they will see that they do not need them. Teach them that death is a serious thing, and to be content to never leave their homes. Even though they have plenty of horses, wagons and boats, they won't feel that they need to use them. Even if they have weapons and shields, they will keep them out of sight. Let people enjoy the simple technologies, let them enjoy their food, let them make their own clothes, let them be content with their own homes, and delight in the customs that they cherish. Although the next country is close enough that they can hear their roosters crowing and dogs barking, they are content never to visit each other all of the days of their life.

Somewhere there are still peoples and herds, but not with us, my brethren: here there are states. A state? What is that? Well! open now your ears unto me, for now will I say unto you my word concerning the death of peoples. A state, is called the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly lieth it also; and this lie creepeth from its mouth: "I, the state, am the people." It is a lie! Creators were they who created peoples, and hung a faith and a love over them: thus they served life. Destroyers, are they who lay snares for many, and call it the state: they hang a sword and a hundred cravings over them. Where there is still a people, there the state is not understood, but hated as the evil eye, and as sin against laws and customs. This sign I give unto you: every people speaketh its language of good and evil: this its neighbour understandeth not. Its language hath it devised for itself in laws and customs. But the state lieth in all languages of good and evil; and whatever it saith it lieth; and whatever it hath it hath stolen. False is everything in it; with stolen teeth it biteth, the biting one. False are even its bowels.

I am a Christian. Personally I would not condone Madonna's act, which I think is just plain shock theater posing as artistic talent. But I mean there is nothing I can really do about it, you know. I cant stop her, or NBC. But I think the point being made is that NBC was so quick to condemn the Danish depictions of Mohammed in order to save face in front of Muslims, but they don't exercise the same kind of consideration toward Christians. Well, I dont own NBC so what can I do about it, but I understand the point being made here.

if Harper were able to dissolve the CRTC i'd support him even more. anyways, i dont agree with conservatives on everything, but i really dont like liberal policy. i especially dont like ken dryden's daycare program. we have enough social programs already. lets focus on improving medicare. is art mandatory in high school now? whats that about? that government which governs least is best you know.

I think Harper is doing a pretty good job personally. I dont think the media represents the people either. What percentage of the population controls the media? Canadian media is pretty Liberal I would say. Pfffft....Also I dont think Canada has to worry about not being left enough, even with a Tory in power.

I'd vote for Golda Meir!!!

lol...well actually i do like metric....everything is divisible by ten you know