mister_v

Neither of those documents is a treaty. Nor do those documents include any hint of the natives maintaining any kind of sovereignty. In fact, both documents go in the other direction. The Royal Proclamation says outright that the King's dominion extends over all territories, including lands inhabited by natives. The Haldimand Proclamation is implicit and Canadian courts have interpreted it as the Six Nations owed allegiance to the Crown via that document and therefore are subjects of the Crown. Today the Crown is embodied in Canada and her provinces. Of course, the British never intended the Haldimand Proclamation to allow the Six Nations any kind of sovereignty.

I see that you're quoting from Kahentinetha Horn now. Thats the only reason I need to mark you as irrelevant. More Horn drivel. Buffalo Creek is the exact intrigue I was referring to. You've screwed yourself by relying on that as evidence that Brant was "removed".

Which allowances are these? That representatives from the Confederacy are at the negotiating table? They are only there because the band council gave them the green light. Or are you referring to the fact that the police haven't made another attempt to remove the occupiers from the site? That can be chalked up to a lack of balls on the part of McGuinty who doesn't want to have another Ipperwash on his hands. The hope is that the occupiers will see the light through negotiation. Kahentinetha Horn and her partner in crime who make up the so-called Women Titleholders do not qualify as a clan mothers. The chiefs were always the ones who signed the land surrenders, not the women. As for Joseph Brant, his "removal" as a chief was part of some intrigue involving the deputy superintendent of Indian affairs in Upper Canada at the time. The superintendent wanted to discredit Brant in his attempts to get the lands of the Haldimand Proclamation granted in fee simple, so he tried to get the support of the natives at the Grand River in getting him removed. When he couldn't convince the Indians there to remove Brant, he went to the portion of the Six Nations in the USA to get their signatures. That is where your "evidence" of his removal comes from. However, the chiefs at the Grand River always backed Brant and continued him in his position. As Brant importantly pointed out, those of the Six Nations who decided to remain in the USA had no say over the disposition of the Grand River lands.

Their sovereignty is not recognized by the government. In fact, court decisions have come down on that side of the argument. You see, Six Nations are not like other indian bands in Canada. They are subject to the wording in the Haldimand Proclamation which states quite clearly that they are there under the protection of the crown. Courts have recognized that as meaning that the Six Nations owed allegiance to the crown and are therefore subjects of the crown. At the time Joseph Brant made the land deals he had been given, in essence, power of attorney for the Six Nations on the Grand. He was not coerced in the least, he was very savvy. As for requiring only women to sign, you contradict every other Six Nationer out there who say that some of the deals weren't valid because they didn't have enough chief's signatures on them. Never has anyone from Six Nations claimed the deals weren't valid because men signed them rather than women.

quite simply, if the people living on 6n land do not like it that 6n are sovereign, they can leave, and no, they cannot hold onto territory that is not theirs. i'm glad to see you have at least recognized that 6n is sovereign. Here's an FYI for you. Six Nations is not sovereign. That ended the minute Joseph Brant and his followers decided to settle on the lands of the Haldimand Tract under the wording laid out in the proclamation. Joseph Brant's protests to the contrary and those since then matter not. They are subjects of the Crown which now rests in Canada.

Settlers? What century are you living in? It really doesn't matter whether you accept Canada's existence or not. The Israelis refer to something called "facts on the ground". Well, the facts on the ground in the lands north of the USA are Canada, her people and her institutions. And they encompass it all.

Your thinking that the land belongs to natives is only a frame of mind. So what if their ancestors showed up first. In reality the land belongs to whoever has the biggest hand cannon. Thats the way its always been and thats the way it always will be. At this point in history Canada is the big boy north of the parallel and there isn't anything that can be done to diminish that fact. So instead of bitching, try hopping onto the Canadian bandwagon. There's plenty of room and you get to keep your traditions just like all other people's inhabiting this great country.

It certainly does, just like it did for your ancestors who used to go around kicking ass when they were the big boys in the neighbourhood.

This is a major show stopper. I think TS is only considering a scenario in which aboriginals are a massive majority in their nations. I don't think TS has considered the idea of non-aboriginals wanting to have positions of power. For example, can a non-native become a clan mother in the Confederacy? Can a non-native become a Confederacy chief? If not, what would happen if non-aboriginals formed a majority within the Confederacy? Another thing that hasn't been considered is non-aboriginals living within the territorial boundaries of the aboriginal nations don't think that they are citizens of these nations (they feel they are Canadian). Therefore, they don't feel the laws of the aboriginal nations apply to them. I'm getting deja vu.

3500. Try perhaps a couple hundred. As for the arrests, if the OPP had allowed the rally to go onto the DCE there wouldn't have been any arrests. Of course that doesn't take into consideration the likely arrests of natives who would have gone into a frenzy and attacked the non-native protestors without provocation the moment they stepped onto the occupied land. The real issue in Caledonia is a bunch of Six Nations people who can't accept the decisions their ancestors made. The land surrender documents are readily available in the public domain. Ongoing harassment of those living adjacent to the DCE doesn't qualify as an "inconvenience". Nor does blockading a major roadway for weeks or vandalising public property. Detours. Very nice. Too bad there aren't any lands being illegally occupied by Canadians. Its all Canada. Not yours. Surprising that this only turned up in Six Nations news. More wishful thinking on your part. The Confederacy spreads a rumour in order to placate their followers (who by no means make up a majority on the Six Nations reserve), brace them for the bad news that the government has stuck to its position that the land claim is, and always has been, complete crap. This came in response to the uproar following the news that the government was paying for hydro to allow a bunch of fanatics to squat on the DCE. *yawn*. Threats of extortion. Oka and Ipperwash were like annoying little mosquitos buzzing around the dozing Canadian giant. Keep up your activities and you'll awaken the giant, to your great sorrow. Happily, you are not sovereign. You are Canadian. At least this sentence is true. They're a criminal organization, involved in drugs, smuggling and intimidation of natives who oppose them. The big question, Gregg, is how are you able to look at yourself in the mirror? You've failed your people. With your mindset you keep them bogged down in looking backward, instead of walking forward to prosperity as part of Canada.

You're too late. Tsi beat you to it.

Take a closer look at Tsi's postings, not only on this board but on other boards on the web (he uses the same name). The man is a native supremacist and a provocateur. He even freaks out and alienates his fellow natives with his hard core attitude. He is not deserving of any form of common decency. You will notice that from my comment he immediately insinuated violence. A real tough guy. On another board he hinted that he and his merry band of delinquents had broken into homes in Caledonia while the owners were away. Defend that animal if you must. But if you hop into bed with pigs, you'll end up dirty too. Concerning the Jay Treaty, I believe that Canada does not recognize it but does permit passage across the border as an aboriginal right with some restrictions. For example, crossing from the United States into Canada is site specific, ie. the claimant must be crossing at a point for which there is evidence that the claimant's band historically would traverse that general geographical area (for Six Nations that would be in New York State).

*yawn*

Congrats Tsi. Not only can you cross the border to buy your toilet paper, you don't pay any duty on it. Your arsehole appreciates those soft American brands.

Joseph Brant was given what amounted to power of attorney by the Six Nations at the Grand River. Just because you don't like the end result today, doesn't mean it wasn't valid. Deal with it.

LOL you have many lands on which to build your economic developments, Why must you do it on ours. Hamilton is in dire need of employment and economic development start there not on our lands.The problem is land is to expensive in hamilton, so they look for cheaper land and what could be cheaper than disputed indian land. The bottom line is the developers bottom line what good do these economic developments do for our people if we do not get employed by the developers or recieve payment for the land.This is the way things will be done from now on, if you have a problem take it up with your courts and see who retains ownership of the land.The reason the government is negotiating is they do not have a case that would stand up in court.By your laws you lose.It will be up to the Haudenosaunne people to take back what is theirs then tell the government to prove they own the land. Yes it is a fantastic way to encourage economic development and employment for our people on our land. The land the windmills are located on was surrendered by Joseph Brant long ago. As for the rest of your post, its something straight out of Alice in Wonderland. I'm beginning to think that Humpty Dumpty is running the show in Ohsweken.

Great link Tsi! The banner image is fantastic! Shows a taste of the great nation of Canada from coast to coast, from sea to shining sea, internationally recognized and internationally admired. We're so admired that people from around the world want to come here to live and become Canadians. Their children become natives too, just like you and me! How does it feel to be Canadian Tsi? Send that link to all your friends. And kudos Tsi, for once you did the right thing.

Hell will freeze over first. In the unlikely event that Six Nations wins some sort of legal victory in Canadian courts (the only courts that matter BTW) then you will see politicians scrambling to protect the rights of the majority of non-natives living in the area. I would not count on their support in all situations. Any attempt by Six Nations to 'enforce' its so called rights would likely lead to backlash against all aboriginals in Canada. This would easily lead to a situation where all of the rights and privileges enjoyed by aboriginals today would be stripped away by the non-native majority who control the courts and the constitution. As a result, most intelligent aboriginals will recognize that supporting a confrontation between Six Nations and Canada is not in their best interest. Tsi is just talking tough again, the troll at work. Haldimand Tract lands that were donated by the Crown for the Iroquois to settle on are now in the hands of Canada. The best part is its all legit. And rest assured Canada will remain Canada, and that includes Kitchener/Waterloo, Caledonia, Cambridge, Toronto, and the windmills in Shelburne. Perhaps a token, symbolic payment will be made to the Six Nations fanatics but all know that land surrenders that were valid back in the day are still valid today. And Tsi will keep fuming and trolling because non-natives will continue to enjoy their lives in those places, make money in those places and none of them will give a flying f*ck about Tsi and his merry band of land grabbers.

Nice try bub. If you want to disregard historical documents that I've mentioned and interpreted according to their intended meaning, thats your problem. You're like a child who covers his ears and cries "nyah nyah nyah I can't hear you". Its a trait that seems to be epidemic in Six Nations fanatics. You're delusional but persistent. P.S. Six Nations sovereignty still only exists in your head. Or it might be in your ass. Either way, it doesn't exist in the real world.

If only it were so easy. Some people thrive on trying to row against the current. Deep down they know they don't have a snowball's chance in Hades but, to themselves, it validates their existence.

Again, your opinion is meaningless. The opinion/ruling of a high court judge in a case is (and in this particular instance has been) used in other court proceedings. The court's opinion has weight, yours doesn't. As for Six Nations sovereignty, that has been proven to not exist. Six Nations sovereignty is only in your head.

Sorry, they have. And they do have the jurisdiction. Case closed.

Your opinion is meaningless. The opinion of the court is a legal ruling based on the information at hand. This ruling has been cited in other court proceedings involving the Six Nations.

Canadian courts have reached the conclusion that the Six Nations on the Grand River are subjects of the Crown.

This demonstrates how myopic some people are.....They think that we can't have our own sense of national pride (not supremecy) but must be copying some sort of "white culture" (which doesn't exist BTW) to assert our distinction. I am hardly a "native supremacist". Politically, I am a humanist. However, I can see why you would fear our assertion of our place in society as it erodes the authority "white' supremacists" like you have held in the mainstream for far too long. Unless you haven't noticed, the majority of people in major cities (and these are the guys and gals who run your government and big businesses) are brown people - the majority of whom are not only non-caucasian but who are also non-christians. I know this scares the pants off of you Mister v since as a minority in those places you stand not to be heard. It is the fear of the myopic racists that all the ill they have visited upon others in the name of apartheid and racial obstruction will be returned. I certainly understand your fears Mister v and will gladly elevate them should you continue to insist we are out to get you!......I mean if we are going to be labelled as violent antagonists them we might as well play the part for your benefit, right? O:nen Nice try at the spin. You are indeed the native version of a white supremacist. Those "brown" people you speak of are honest, hardworking Canadians who are welcomed with open arms. Whether Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Muslim, atheist, or if they worship Darth Vadar, they are all welcomed into this land and can still maintain their beliefs. Their children will become natives of this land, as native as I, you and your offspring are. Nothing to fear there, we are all proud Canadian citizens of a kaleidoscope of colours and it is a joy and privilege to be apart of it. I seek to preserve that because it is a good thing. You, on the other hand, want to create some Six Nations fiefdom, irrespective of what was properly given up by the Six Nations in the past, where the non-native inhabitants either pay you to be allowed to be there or get kicked out (P.S. those non-native inhabitants include the "brown" people). You don't seek a place in Canadian society, you deny the very existence of that society. That is what makes you a native supremacist. "Apartheid". "Racial obstruction". Such lofty words Tsi. The thing about people like yourself is you're always looking into the past, obsessed with it really. Those types tend to get left behind by humanity's relentless forward march. You either go with the flow, adapt to the times and join that march, or you get brushed aside and slowly go the way of the square wheel. You have already doomed yourself with your mindset, but for the sake of future generations of aboriginals, don't brainwash them too.