Live From China

August1991 your comments are ludicrous. You draw a correlation between the Chinese education system and poverty in China! And the correlation doesn't hold. Are you actually saying that if our system was more disciplined that we would suddenly be thrown into dire poverty? Furthermore, we don't teach about Socrates and Plato in high school. Our questioning of authority has become naysaying, students question for the sake of questioning, and the rights of the individual has been placed magnitudes above the good of society or the group. And the Chinese are slowly learning about freedom of choice. Come over here and see for yourself.

Of course, I never said the Chinese education system is "so good." Nor is it even implied. I said it was tough, very tough! And the best Canadian student would have trouble surviving in this system. They could not handle the work load. And I would challenge your idea that North American students know how to learn. My experience is just the opposite. And, yes, there is still a lot of rote learning. But the system is changing, and I have witnessed this myself. Students question, come up with their own ideas for projects, etc. I have seen students come up with incredibly different ways of solving problems! Some students are starting to go to school overseas, so Mann's comments are starting to become outdated. If our education system is so good, why is Canada getting poorer?

Not sure I follow you. What are the consequences?

And many don't! Never said skin color was involved. And yes experience has something to do with it. But attitude (or will) does too! I worked in resource management for years, and the basic rule was educate towards changing attitudes!

I never said they were. I just said they aren't any better at it that whites or non-natives. And they won't be. No racial group will be. Environmental protection really starts with attitude. And no group has a monopoly on that!

I don't know if I would classify this as "an issue" but I just wanted to present a foreigner's view on education in China. In a word, education in China, is tough, or better yet, brutal! The best Canadian student would have trouble surviving in the system here. First, the days are simply longer. I have seen students heading off to school at 0700 (and the local high school is only a 10 min. walk away). Routinely, classes start at 0730. Students will not finish until 1700. Then, there is what is known as mandatory study: students will go home or to the dining hall (if it is a boarding school) and then return at 1800. Mandatory study is anywhere from 2 to 4 hours, 5 days per week. Even more striking: I have been told that if a teacher feels they did not grasp a concept, s/he may call for a Saturday class, and they will attend. They won't like it, but they will attend! Education in Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry and English are heavily emphasized. I would guess that your average junior high school student is doing our equivalent of senior high mathematics. Of course, the Chinese are very proud of their philosophical traditions. Laozi (Lao Tzu), Sunzi (Sun Tzu), Kongzi (Confucius), etc. are learned and known by all. Even your Chinese worker (gong ren) knows about Laozi! Students are proud of their schools and wear their uniforms on their days off, if there really is such a thing. They are kind, polite and dignified (contrast that to many a junior high psychopath in Canada). And they are keen to learn English and many will talk to a foreigner if they get a chance. Of course, many people in the West criticize Chinese students as robots, only capable of rote learning. My impression is that that is changing. Talk to any young student of high school age and you will find that they are learning to criticize and question. Anyway, just my observations.

I think the fact that soccer requires very little equipment is what makes it so appealing to people worldwide. Even a poor child can play soccer. (I guess in the US and Canada that may not be true: kids seem to need to have the latest and the best, and if you are a dreaded soccer mom, you need that expensive SUV). In reality, all you need is a ball or something that resembles a ball. I have even seen children playing football in bare feet. I guess you do need a field but of course it doesn't have to be a regulation pitch. An open space will do. I used to joke that volleyball and basketball were for people who were afraid to go outside.

I think it is a pipedream to believe that natives would better managers of land and water than non-natives. Nor do natives appreciate the "beauty of nature" any more than non-natives. This is a myth that has been perpetuated by movies such as Dances with Wolves. Entertaining but a fantasy.

First, let's get one thing clear: I am a Canadian and I still pay taxes in Canada. Second, I am definitely not trolling. I am trying to take part in this discussion. I agree with Charles Anthony (and we definitely don't always agree): how can any party settle with another unless they know what is wanted or required? Sounds like common sense to me.

Precisely! We cannot settle anything, until "we" know what "they" want. Or conversely, "they" know what "we" are prepared to pay. To do so would simply be a foolish waste of time. As for the choice in the poll, "Whatever It Takes", this is just a silly (and unabashedly politically correct) choice. There has to be an upper limit. Since it is undefined, this takes me back to my originally point. And no one is going to throw away the lives of future Canadians by giving someone a blank cheque. This would be penalizing someone who had nothing to do with the situation or problem in the first place. Correcting previous wrongs should not utilize a sins-of-the-fathers approach!

Well, isn't this the ultimate nature of business dealings or contracts?

I definitely do not think it should be compensation without end!

Would there be an end to this compensation, or would it be largesse without end?

My apologies. For some reason the quote function did not work.

Firstly, I did not realize it was a requirement of this board to provide solutions. Secondly, to this comment I must say, "Au contraire!." I have proposed one solution, i.e., stop with the one-dimensional, beer parlour analysis of the disabled and their difficulties. And finally, the real problem is not the disabled but the people who regard them as fraud artists and malingerers! Thus, the problem is yours, and it since it is, it is your responsibility to come up with a solution. Pray tell, what are my motives (other than to combat ignorance such as yours)? Most people in Canada have either: - escaped tyrannical regimes - parents who escaped tyrannical regimes - close friends and neighbors who have escaped tyrannical regimes As a result, most people in Canada CAN NOT BE FOOLED by the propaganda and the misinformation and the continued harassment by tyrannical regimes.

You've got to be kidding! Dream on!

How do you know? This is another pat and simplistic statement. Wouldn't it be great if the world and life flowed along so smoothly. It can take forever to get such settlements. And if you don't think people who are truly disabled in a workplace accident can't end up fighting WCB for years, think again. This is a completely unfounded statement. And it shows that you have completely missed the point of both Kindred's and injustice's experiences (and mine, of course). But somehow you have transcended all that and "just know." A place for everyone, and everyone in their place! So somehow you are a medical expert with both X-ray vision and the diagnostic powers only God could possess, or you really are 12.

OK, geoffrey, did you read Kindred's post? Please do, and let it really sink in. Forget the platitudes, and face the reality!

Why don't you re-read Kindred's post. S/he just did!

My God, geoffrey, your sense of "logic" is so convoluted it scares me! Your post is nothing more than thinly veiled "redneck politics." No wonder Canada is becoming such a hard place to live. No wonder the disabled are becoming more and more marginalized. There is definite bitterness and hostility in your words. To imply that the disabled are "doing nothing" is an insult. In many cases, they don't have a choice. I doubt there is a disabled person alive who chose their lot. Your attitude is also very condescending. And pathetic! There can be a difference between injured and disabled. And just because a person goes into surgery, will s/he miraculously "get better"? Recovery could take years. Furthermore, just because they appear able-bodied doesn't mean they are. Many disabled people face constant, debilitating pain. This pain definitely rules out any sort of physical job, and yet they can neither stand nor sit for long periods. This means they cannot do what many would consider an "easy job." This comment really irks me because it implies that when a person's disability is cut off, they definitely were defrauding the system. Therefore, using this redneck "logic", a person who can no longer collect money due to the narrowing parameters that define a disability, was never really disabled in the first place, and thus were defrauding the system. If that is true, geoffrey, why don't we just take them to court and then put them in jail? Would that make you happy? This type of system is definitely bureaucracy at its worst. What really astounds me is that many people cannot see that this is just a blatant attempt to save money, regardless of the human cost. You have really failed to look at this from another perspective: their is a definitely prejudice against the disabled. We love to think of Canada as a truly humanitarian and enlightened country. When it comes to the disabled, it is a harsh and cruel place. It is hard enough for a young, able-bodied person to get a job in this country. Employers do not always want a disabled person on staff. Factor in age, and your chances are even less. You are obviously a medical expert with X-ray vision. Holy whatever! I can just feel the anger and bitterness oozing out of your words. In pretending to support those who are "truly disabled", you really regard all disabled people with suspicion. Wow, I hope you never get into a position of real power. But then maybe you already are, which is even scarier! This is just so pat and simplistic! Everyone has a slot to fill, and must contribute. If you don't then you are scamming the system. In reality, this is just self-righteous twaddle!

Charles Anthony, in another thread you went on at length about how it was important to post comments that engendered intellectual debate. Where is the intellectual content in your last post (which is largely a repeat of one of your previous posts)? It is nothing more than hypocritical paranoid ranting! I know you won't believe me but I am NOT a Chinese national, nor am I spy!

Who knows Riverwind? I think just because capitalism may work for you doesn't mean it would for other people. Further, it doesn't mean these people would automatically fare worse under another system. The thing that scares me is that it is only going to get worse for thousands of young people, the disabled, the unemployed, etc.

Capitalism works for whom? I would venture that it doesn't work for thousands of people in Canada and the United States. What about the homeless, the impoverished (a large number of whom are children)? How about the thousands of young people working at minimum-wage jobs? They have been betrayed by capitalism. The buying-more-is-better ethic is being crammed down their throats and pounded into their heads endlessly. Yet, most do not have the resources to pursue this dream. They barely have money to pay their bills and rent and buy food. Many are angry because they can't follow this dream and are made to feel like losers because they can't.

For the record: I think smoking is simply a bad idea! That said, I am wondering where this kind of anti-smoking campaign will stop. I mean I have heard that some people have proposed legislation preventing smoking in homes or in your yard. If this is true, they need to get real!

Thanks Kindred, couldn't have said it better myself. So Riverwind, isolated incident ? Like bloody hell!