Rue

Your idiotic comments that Israel makes matzah balls only serves to lend to the appearance you have no idea how Israel's economy works. The reason why it has the army it has, if you bothered to read before you post such articles making such statements, is that it has been at war since 1948 with Syria, Lebanon and the majority of Arab States in the Arab Leaguge including technically Jordan. In fact Egypt is the only Arab state with an official peace treaty. Everyone else is technically at war. Israel maintains its presence because if you bothered to read, you would understand it is completely surrounded by countries hostile to its existence and who allow terrorist cells to launch attacks from these countries. The only thing infurating is your simplistic analysis and complete lack of awareness of what is going on. One last thing you call Israel's response a dispicable display of intolerance. Why are you silent on what Hezbollah has done and the fact it was Hezbollah's decision to use humans as shields that is getting them killed. Oh don't tell me. It would be discpicable intolerance if I were to shoot at you, then hide behind a child, keep shooting at you, and you tried to shoot back to kill me before I killed you. Love your logic.

It will not be asked and no one has even remotely hinted they will be asked. NATO is quite aware Canada has no troops to offer.

Your analogy makes no sense, You are comparing coomments manifesting blatant hatred with someone who engaged in questionable sexual relationships with someone who was his step-daughter. There is nothing even remotely similiar. I can only assume you brought it up because you are inferring since Woody Allen is Jewish he has receuved preferential treatment. Your inference is odious. Woody Allen's choice of sexual partner was questionable and he was lambasted in Hollywood and by his peers. So your arguement that he is being attacked because he is a conservative Catholic and its some sort of double standard is absolute b.s. His being Catholic is not the issue. His being ignorant is. His repeated claims he is not an anti-semite is the issue when he makes comments such as this manifesting what he truly feels. How about you, you think its harmless? Sounds like you are trying to infer its normal for conservative Catholics to think this way.

O.k. Middle East expert, you want to open that up then be intellectually honest about it. The Shebba farms area is 14 kilometres (8.7 miles) of land, 2.5 kilos or 1.6 miles wide. It is in fact a tiny parcel of land situated on a piece of land that was NEVER properly or clearly demarcated on maps. So technically, and of course you Black Dog selectively choose to ignore this, the land has never been defined as belonging to anyone and to this day BOTH Syria and Lebanon dispute who has sovereignty of it. In 1967 Israel took it over because it was being used as a site to launch terrorist attacks. Its right on the Israeli border. It was not clearly marked because the French who operated Syria and Lebanon in their infinite wisdom were not surehow to define it. Now of course Israel is evil and they just took it for no reason because they are greedy Jews right Black Dog? Evil bad Jews that just want everything. Or you can pause and consider this. Hassan Ezzedin a Hezbollah spokesman said it all when he said in response to being asked would Hezbollah live peacefully with Israel if Israel pulled out of this region- and I quote directly; " If they go(sic) from Shebba we will not stop fighting them our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine. Jews (note he did not say Israelis) can go back to Germany where they came from". So Israel continues to occupy this tiny slice of land right on their border because if they give it back it will mean Hezbollah can attack within 5 minutes of its villages. So Balck Dog unless you know something Israel does not, they could give a flying f...ck what you think and will not give it back and if you were in their position neither would you.

There is no illegal occupation and settlement of Palestinian land, so making that statement reflects your total and complete ignorance as to international law and the fact that Israel is a perfectly legal state and Palestine is not a state, has never been a state, and can not become a state because those people who want it to become a a state, can not turn it into a state, because within their midst a minority of people who are violent terrorists are concerned with only one thing, ending the existence of Israel. This is not a matter of innocent freedom fighters wanting a peaceful solution. This is a matter of people who have no respect for individual and human rights, who detest all Jews and anyone non Muslim and who do not believe in any of the concepts of lifestyle you take for granted and assume everybody else wants. What is the motivation? Well either you are completely stupid and you deserve a stupid answer such as-its because Zionists control George Bush and have brain-washed him, or if your simplistic brain can handle this answer it is because the United States and other countries (yah there are some) believe Israel has the right to exist. And using your simplistic questioning think about it. No there is no oil. No the U.S. get's nothing out of it but hear-ache. So why do it? Ooh could it be Americans actually have ideals? No can't be. Its because the US needs Israel to destabalize the Middle East so it can sell weapons to Arabs. Yah they are evil those Americans. Also the Zionists own all the banks and Hollywood. You know what Fig your childish simplistic questions are tiresome.

Who wants me dead? You're just a wee bit paranoid ain't ya? I don't think the Hezbollah wants to hurt me. They want to defend themselves from an overzealous and bloodthirsty regime. Funny how the "terrorist" is now the one trying to defend their country. That's a bit of a stretch. The "terrorist" spin is being used by an increasing number of countries to justify despicable acts. Didn't you know? This is without a doubt one of the most ignorant responses I have seen in what has otherwise been a challenging series of posts from all sides. " I don't think hezbollah wants to hurt me. They want to defend themselves from an overzealoys and bloodthirsty regime". Then you go on to state the are defending their country. Let's try use simple words. Hezbollah wants to kill you and every person like yourself precisely because you are Christian. Pretending because you are not Jewish and are Canadian and therefore safe is without a doubt the most stupid thing I have ever heard. Are you that clueless. Please go on the internet and read up about Hezbollah and what they stand for and understand who they kill, when, where and how. Understand what kind of state they believe in. Do you have a clue? They want a Shiite fundamentalist state where Christians and Jews and Sunnis and Druze and anyone who does not think like them killed. Not left alone, killed. People like you whop try turn terrorists into innocent victims are pathetic. Its a typical psychological defence. Oh they won't hurt me. I am a good person. Time for you to grow up quickly. As for defending themselves get something straight. Israel was NOT in Lebanon so Hezbollah was NOT defending Lebanon. It came over the proper into Israel and kidnapped two soldiers. Do you have a clue why Hezbollah did this? Have you a clue that Hezbollah's charter states they want all of Israel eradicated and all Jews world wide exterminated? Do you have a clue that they consider Christians the infidel and consider Hindus pests to be murdered? Have you got a clue? Now the person Hezbollah wants released in return for the two Israelis is called Mr. Samir Kuntar. Read up about him before you write one more post. This man took a group of terrorists into Israel proper. He went to an Israeli man's house. That Israeli man had to hide his wife and 2 year old daughter in a loft that was not big enough for him and his son who was 4. So he had to choose. So he stood with his son. These terrorists took them to a near-by beach. Then Mr. Kuntar bashed the 4 year old's head in with a rock slowly and smeared his brain matter in the face of his father. Then they urinated and defacated on the father and killed him through slow torture. The wife hiding in her loft kept her mouth over her two year old daughter to prevent her from crying. She suffocated the child to death. This Mr. Kuntar was caught. He wasn't killed. He was placed in prison. Now the leader of Hezbollah refers to this man as a hero and a freedom fighter and wants him released. So do me a favour, since you know nothing of the depths of depravity going on in the Middle East, listen to me for one second, I have had brain matter blow up in my face from a bomb. I have seen Palestinian children blow into pieces after being asked to carry explosives. What you have no clue as to is that once a terrorist kills, the target of those killing never forget. Israel will and can not forget. They aren't some inconvenience that should just go away. Israel is where they went to live in peace after 3,500 years of discrimination by both Christians and Muslims. They have as much a right to live there as Palestinians. They have rights and nothing you can say will take them away. Pretend all you want there is only one side to this but until you travel to Israel and speak to Israelis and understand how they live you are nothing but an ignorant bigot for making generalizations that they are blood thirsty. You are telling people such as this lady who now lives in a nightmare for having survived that she is blood thirsty because she won't leave Israel or commit suicide.

Your analysis is completely one sided and bias. You clearly have made up your mind there is a good guy and a bad guy and choose to define it as a simple good v. evil situation with a top dog and an under dog. Are you completely unable to read or ignorant which one is it when you ask a question such as does this make any sense to anyone. To those of us who have lived through terrorist attacks and watched people die because of terrorists...to those who live in cities where they are being attacked with missiles and are less then fifteen minutes from people who openly state they want to wipe them all out, it makes perfect sense. For you living in a comfortable, sheltered country never living through terrorist attacks or knowing what it is like to have to survive of course it doesn't make sense. Perhaps we need to terrorize your family before it ever will. As for your sweeping statement that Israel's retaliation is not in proportion, what would be in proportion? See you make me laugh when you make comments like that because I know for a fact if someone shot at you with a gun and then hid behind someone, and kept shooting you would panic and wet your pants and die-but guess what Israelis don't pee their pants...they can't afford to...they are fighting to exist...what you see as not proportional is because you have never been shot at and don't know what one does to stay alive. Israel has a moral responsibility to its people to keep them alive-that is what they are doing. Your problem is that you conveniently overlook that civilians die because Hezbollah chooses to place them directly in theline of fire. You are mixing that fact up with the concept of self-defence. If you knew anything about response strikes and read up, you would know although 750 have died, many more could have died had Israel not chosen to warn civilians and use restraint. That is what you can't seem to understand-most countries would not have held back and killed only 750. Gee what am I saying. Try this on since you haven't a clue. When Algeria decided to take control back from militants within its country it didn't have arm-chair experts such as yourself lecturing them. They simply exterminated 100,000 people. Now they have no problem. So before you lecture Israel any further, or act all self-righteous...read up and try understand what is going on.

Fig Leaf I strongly doubt you can read but try this. Try read up on what has happened in Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Somalia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia from say 1955 to 1985. Then tell you what Fig Leaf, if you can find me one UN Resolution condemning any of these countries as to how they treated their own civilians - do let me know...and then ask me that question again about where in the contents of UN resolutions its bias. Its not the contents. Its the fact that the resolutions have ONLY singeld out Israel and none of these countries or many other Muslim and Asian and other countries for their UN violations. Try Indonesia, China, Vietnam, North Korea, as well. Try Pakistan. Try India. Try Bangladesh. Try ZImbabwe. Or does your selective memory only apply with Israelis who are Jewish?

Have you got a friggin clue what is going on? Israel is not occupying Palestine. It went into the Gaza and West Bank after terrorists in both regions seeking the destruction of the State of Israel used those places and civilians as shields to launch terrorist attacks and missile and mortar attacks. Or does your selective memory forget that? When Israel pulled out of Gaza and the West Bank the terrorists attacks began again so now they have set up a security wall. So your comment that they are maintaining an occupation is simply not true and it shows you are clueless. As for Lebanon when Israel pulled out of Lebanon the UN which had a mandate to disarm Hezbollah, refused not to and decided to sit back and do nothing with its troops except watch Hezbollah infiltrate the South, massacre Christians, Sunnis and Druze, and then begin launching missle and terrorist attacks. This same UN sat back while Iran and Syria turned Lebanon's entire highway system into a logistics support network to ship missiles and weapons to Hezbollah in the South. The UN ignored its own resolution calling for the disarming of Hezbollan and stayed silent when Hezbollah kidnapped and tortured Israeli civilians so do me a favour-either read up on what has happened or stop making references to things that are simply not true. Anyone who can read knows that every time Israel has pulled its forces back from security zones, all it has done is lead to increased terrorist attacks. So your pretending this is a one sided affair with Israel as the big meeny and Palestinians as innocent victims is lame, very lame. The fact is if there was no terrorism, Palestinians would have had their country and freedom long ago. It is that simple. Unless of course you are suggesting Israel should not exist at all, which is just fine right? Let's just kill them all because Israel is illegal right? Evil people. Mel Gibson is right.

So tell me. How does one act impartially with terrorists. Oh I know. They will sit down with Hezbollah and have tea and say, " oh yoo hoo, would you stop fighting with those silly Jews...just ignore them....they are mad at Mel Gibson too... Man your simplistic analysis is laughable. What is it with sheltered Canadians who haven't a clue about terrorists talking like they are experts on how to handle them. Give it a rest. Act impartially. Oh yoo hoo please stop that, pretty please.

Israel has not landed any troops near Syria. Their ground movement has been limited to the South. The only thing that happened up North is an unmanned drone, blew up three trucks full of weapons crossing from Syria into Lebanon. As for the Syrian Army unlike Hezbollah who are fundamentalists who truly believe in what they are doing Syria's army with the exception of one elite unit used to protect the President, is a set of poorly equipped, poorly trained soldiers. Syria has no intention of fighting a conventional war. In case you have not noticed Syria and Iran do all their talking through proxy terrorist groups. That is precisely what cowards do. Syria will sit this out as they always do and let others fight their battle. The average Syrian is Sunni. The people in charge of Syria including Bashir Assad are Alawite a minority sect. He can't lead his army because there is just as much a chance of them turning on Assad as fighting for him. Understanf this about Syria, they spend most of their time hunting and killing suspected Sunni Muslims and the Muslim Brotherhood.Israel is a side attraction to distract people from the collapse of their economy, their 90% unemployment rate, and their spying and torturing of their fellow citizens.

Israel lands troops near Syria. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14128276/ MADNESS! Next I suppose they'll 'pre-emptively' bomb the Egyptian airforce again. No they will simply all commit mass suicide. I mean why defend themselves they don't serve to live.

I fully concur with Fort's and Army's comments.

1. Israel is not in occupied territories and this shows your complete and utter ignorance as to what is going on. Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza, The West Bank and Lebanon. 2. There are no prisoners of war. Israel has captured terrorists who are NOT prisoners of war because they are not conventional military soldiers fighting a conventional war. 3. Your use of the word apologize is idiotic. This is not a one sided conflict. There is no good guy and bad guy and your simplistic notion that there is a bad guy and if they say sorry, this will resolve the conflict is laughable. More to the point, I would like to take you to Israel and have you speak to but one victim of terrorism and have you tell them to apologize. Your ignorance is amazing. 4.You make another baseless statement that Israel should financially compensate Palestinians. Who compensates Israel for all the terrorist attacks it has suffered and who compensates it now for the turmoil to its economy while it has to fight Hezbollah? Your selectivity is amazing. More to the point your comment is so simplistic as to be idiotic. The economic suffering of Palestine has been caused by two clear phenomena; i-terrorism ii-the coruption of the PLO which took money sent to Palestinians for relief and misappropriated the funds placing billions in Swiss bank accounts. In regards to i, if the Palestinian people on a collective basis denounced terrorism and refused to support it, there would be no need for the Israelis to stop Palestinians from entering Israel proper for work. In regards to ii, no Arab country has a regime free of coruption. Even the oil rich nations are corupt. SO to blame Israel for the Muslim world's failure to oeprate financially solvent countries is past idiotic. Its comments like yours that make me ask do you bother to read anything and try educate yourself as to a situation before you make such statements? Try at least to read up so you can offer a position we can debate or appreciate. I do not mean to sound personal but I am aghast at your lack of awareness and I apologize if I sound rude.,

Black Dog's position is interesting. He has stated even if Hezbollah uses ambulances or disguises itself as civilians, Israel does not have the right to target civilians. This is typical. He has slipped in the assumption that Israel is targeting civilians and then creates a double standard moral position that lectures posters that Israel can not shoot at civilians but remains completely silent on Hezbollah's culpability for usin civilians as weapons. As a result Black Dog has zero credibility because his analysis and postulations only comment as to Israeli conduct. Let us be crystal clear. Black Dog is utterly without basis when he makes genarlizations and sweeping statements stating Israel is targeting civilians. This is a personal and subjective opinion by Black Dog from the comfort of his sofa and stated so simply because he does not understand war and has never been shot at so he makes such inaccurate and ignorant statements. The Israeli Defence Force is not targetting civilians and never has. It is targetting Hezbollah. If Hezbollah chooses to hide behind civilians, they die as collateral damage because they are placed in the line of fire by Hezbollah. Black Dog's positiion is completely ignorant of basic morality. If a murder shoots to kill you, and then uses a human as a screen, while continuing to shoot at you, you have the moral right to defend yourself and shoot back and try suirvive. It is that simple. There is nothing absolutely nothing that states, you must die because to shoot back might kill the person the murderer is using as a shield. Black Dog's moral lecturing is selective because it misses the basic point, that Hezbollah is morally culpable for the death of civilians by using them as shields. Black Dog is trying to assign the blame for placing civilians in the line of fire on Israel which is nonsensical. In Black Doig's simplistic world of evil Zionists, there is of course a double standard-Hezbollah can use civilians as shields, but Israel can't defend itself. That is pure and utter piffle. Now Black Dog says is there any proof Hezbollah uses ambulances, civilians as shields, etc. Either Black Dog is being deliberately ignorant or provocative. Anyone can go on the internet and find out for themselves the substantiated third party proof from neutrals as to the tactics Hezbollah has used and will contimnue to use. In fact Hezbollah openly admits it uses civilians as shields and believes in killing civilians and having them killed as tools of its war. There is no secret to this. Black Dog's naive belief that Hezbollah is some sort of heroic champion of the oppressed is laughable. It shows his complete and absolute ignorance of the culture of Shiite fundamentalism and its lack of respect for human life.

I personally agree with Harper's approach which is to remain neutral and believe both Israelis and Palestinians have the right to homelands but do completely and without reservation condemn terrorism. I personally do not agree with those who say Harper has affected Canada's neutrality. He has not and has clearly stated he believes Lebanon should be free and independent and Palestinians should have a homeland. What he is come out clearly against is terrorism and I prefer that kind of approach to Chretien's which echoed Jaque Chirac and the French approach to the Middle East. I think Harper has far more credibility with Israel then his predecessors for being so unequivocal about his support against terrorism and so now they will listen and be more likely to take up his suggestions as to resolving this conflict. I personally commend the US, UK, Australia and Canada for being consistent and blasting Hezbollah and terrorists but at the same time clearly stating a solution can only come about with two states. I personally believe that many Sunni nations particularly Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt although they will never admit it are not too worried about Hezbollah being crushed but they are worried their populations will eventually turn on Israel if this goes on too much longer. Israel runs the risk of losing its unofficial Sunni Muslim support if it doesn't shut this down soon. I personally don't see this going on for more then another week or so. I believe a comprehensive peace solution in the Middle East requires a peaceful co-existence between Palestine and Israel AND a completely de-militarized independent Lebanon. I am not too confident a peace-keeping force can do anything unless it is given a clear mandate to shoot and kill. The problem with that is we will have yet another mission such as the ones in Afghanistan and Iraq-in otherwords an entrenched war of attrition as coventional armies chase after guerillas who hide behind civilians. I am just not sure it will work. Some people have stated Turkey would be a good choice for troops. Absolute nonsense. Turkey is despised in the Arab world from its days of the Ottoman Empire and France will not send troops because they lost 58 soldiers to the Hezbollah and are not neutral. Canada has no troops to offer and Israelis can not live depending on German soldiers for obvious reasons. So who does this leave in NATO. Norway, Spain and Holland all have credibility with Israel but are theywilling to commit to a long term operation with so many deaths over a protracted period of time as is happening with the Americans and Canadians now? I don't think so and that is why I gave a funny feeling as much as people say one thing, they secretly want Hezbollah crushed. The problem is you can't crush them. They just keep coming back. Unfortunately the only solution is an entrenched wall and security buffer zone thatt hey are not allowed to penetrate. You push them back far enough to neutralize their missiles, then build a very solid security wall, then you have the international force behind that wall and serving as the buffer and you give that force the clear mandate to shoot and kill. You can't be peaceful with terrorists. That is the mistake the UN has made continuously. It also hasn't helped in the past the Italians and Chinese troops have openly aided terrorists.

Make no mistake Ethiopia is acting on its own. Their concerns with Somalia and Eritrean fundamentalist Islamic groups are very old. I am sure the CIA may be helping but they couldn't do it without Ethiopia calling them in. Somalia has no oil or minerals and it is not in the position to interefere with the shipping lanes off its coast. Its only strategic importance is it could be used as a launching site to attack oil carrying vessels....but to do that it would have to operate a naval force and its current network of anarchy can not support anything more then a few speed-boats. Could it be used as base to train terrorists for operations in other countries? Maybe, but there are plenty of places, i..e., Sudan, Iran, Yemen, Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Libya, where terrorists can and do train. Ethiopia's real concern is stopping Somali warlords from networking with Eritrean war-lords and operating within Ethiopian terrirory or raiding Ethiopian villages along the border. The only thing Somalia is these days is a network that smuggles opium and child and adult slaves to and from the Middle East, Africa and Europe. The vast majority of its people starve while criminals run wild and loose and do what they want.

A very interesting question posed and some interesting answers. For me as a Jewish Canadian, even though I support the right for Israel to exist as a Jewish nation and defend its existence, I myself, personally do not choose to live in Israel or any religious state. I believe in seperation of religion from state. W I see Israel two ways. One as a spiritual expression of Judaism and two as a practical and blatant survival response to world-wide persecution and the last stand for Jews. But no I do not want Palestinians to suffer and innocent civilians to die. I criticize organized religions of all kinds, Christian, Islam, Judaism for the exact same reasons and it would not be consistent to say I feel a Jewish State is o.k. but a Muslim one is not. Religious states of any kind cause problems and challenges with basic democractic beliefs. I love being Canadian precisely because I can walk down the street and not be arrested and persecuted by my own police. My ancestors could only dream of something called Canada. My grandparents lived to see it. To me an ideal state is tolerant of everyone's beliefs but does not favour anyone's beliefs and stays neutral and above religious issues. I think in this country we have a very real visionary crisis coming up because we did in our generosity simply open the doors to anyone who wanted to come and many who have come do not share a vision of universal tolerance. To me it is not an issue of accepting new Canadians....its an issue of those new Canadians coming to this country and any Canadian who was born in this country feeling they can be intolerant and feeling they have the right to impose their beliefs on others and institutionalize it. Many new Canadians want to be democratic and come here to escape fundamentalism and intolerance and want to contribute to a peaceful democatic vision so I don't want to lump them with those who come here and want to retain their fundamentalist intolerance and have it both ways-suck up all the benefits Canada has to offer, but spit on on us and hold us in contempt and finance terrorists ovreseas. There are intolerant new Canadians just as there are intolerant Canadians born here. Those intolerant bigots come in all colours, sizes, etc., and yes this country has to seriously consider how it will handle those new Canadians or born Canadians who want to finance and support terrorism. I reject the use of Sharia Law the same way I would Rabbinical Jewish law or fundamentalist Christian or other religious law. Religion is something you do in your private life but it can not be state imposed. You want to be religious, I will respect you but only if you respect me and do not try impose your beliefs on me and yes we have to draw a line. No you can not impose beliefs in our society that promote polygamy and concepts as to division of property or custody in divorce conflicts that supercede our existing family laws. Yes Canada has the right to draw a line and say we can practice our religions in peace, but there are limits and those limits will define that our right to prayer and worship can not violate and supercede or opt out of our existing criminal and civil laws. As I Jew I am willing to say openly to any Jew as I would anyone of any other religion that if they choose to follow Rabbinical laws, this can not be state sanctioned just as there is no place for religion in public schools. Finally, I personally think for the majority of Muslims world-wide their is most certainly a direct war going on with the West because our belief in seperating church from state and our views as to materialism and free enterprise and sexuality, etc., are in direct opposition to theirs. That said I also understand and want to network with those Muslims willing to embrace tolerance and live within our customs but also want to retain their Muslim beliefs as I would with anyone from any other religious group willing to do the same. That said I think the war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, is in fact a fragmented start to the Third World War which will see the West fight The Islamic World and Chinese whether we like it or not. The Muslim world and its fundamentalists now trying to control it are not going away and they are at war with us and as long as we stay addicted to our oil, they will use that addiction to try destroy us. They want us destroyed, make no mistake. This is not a matter of imperialism or a simple historic misunderstanding. This is a war between our way of life and another way of life which believes that we are evil and must be wiped off the planet. It is not about mutual respect. To understand fundamentalist Islamic life you must travel to a Muslim country and experience what it means to not be Muslim in a Muslim country. This is not a simple misunderstanding..its a profound difference in social values. Whether we like it or not, China because of its need for oil, and its being in direct opposition to democract will of course side with the Islamic fundamentalist world. Russia and India as much as they would like to think they are not aligned have already been reluctanly pulled into the vortex and will have to side with the West. Russia needs the West to sell its oil and water and vast mineral resources, India needs the West to market its economy. As for Israel, whether the West likes it or not, it is a Western State in a cultural war with Eastern values and it will be the lithmus test for whether the Western world has the moral fortitude to defend its values.

I would like to address 2 issues; i-Blackdog's question/rhetorical comment as to how it is irelevant if he is not under attack himself when judging Israel; ii- the notion of collective responsibility and the plight of Lebanon. In regards to Black-dog's question, it is extremely relevant when he keeps making comments that reflect his lack of awareness when judging Israelis and their right to exist. It is evident when reading anything Blackdog has to say on the Middle-East, he starts witht he assumption that Palestinians are victims and Israel is the victimizer. He also starts with the assumption that Israel has no legal claim to a country for Jews and therefore anything flowing from its attempts to defend its existence is morally wrong. That makes it relevant because if Blackdog bothered to travel to Israel, and learn the history of its origins and learn where its people came from and how they live, I am convinced most of what he says would change. Its easy to judge Israel as being an oppressor when you have not actually witnessed what the Israeli Army does, what the Israelis and Palestinians do, and the actual physical space between them and lack of water. To someone like Blackdog this is a black and white issue with right and wrong and evil Zionists and innocent Palestinians. In reality it is simply about people-people jammed together with little water and a conflict as to who should live and where. It is a conflict as to Jews who want a Jewish country and Muslims who want a Muslim country. Its about Jews who have established a Jewish country but have enshrined in their constitution equal legal rights for Muslims and Christians, but a Muslim world where Jews are not seen as being entitled to such rights in Muslim countries. If Blackdog travelled to Syria, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Egypt, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Morocco, Tunisia, Libya, he would soon see that the Muslim world does not have a history of tolerating non Muslims or Muslims outside certain sects. He would see that Muslims particularly Sunnis and Shiites are enemies and that moderate Muslims move to Europe, North or South America because they can't deal with the fundamentalism. He would find that Palestinians are not all afraid of Israelis and have as many issues with each other as they do with Israeli Jews, Israeli Arabs, and citizens of other Arab countries. He would find out that the most important issue for these people is being able to drink water. He would find with that every Muslim country today depends on a ruthless secret political police force to run its country and that elections are rigged and the governments corupted. He would find the vast majority of people in Syria are hungry, unemployed and if they could would have rid themselves of Assad Jr. and his ruthless Mukbarat. He would find that in Iran, there are still many Persians who do not hate Jews and are pro-West and are not fundamentalist. He would find in Egypt that the country is over-crowed, unemployed and a powder-keg ready to explode and that if Mubarak is killed, it could be plunged into a major civil war and if it is taken over by fundamentalists, the entire Middle East goes up inj flames. He would find that Libya is a complete and utter police state still subject to the insanity of its leader Gaddafi who still kills thousands and engages in war in Chad but has successfully propped himself up by once again making peace with European oil interests. He would find that Palestinians in the Gaza and West Bank live in sheer flith and despair but do not see war as a solution and would be willing to make peace with Israel and work in Israel but can not because if they mention anything like that they could be killed. He would find out that children as young as 5 and 6 are asked to carry bombs and their parents do not want them to but can not confront these terrorists who recruit them. That is why it is relevant. 2. In regards to collective responsibility, 40% of Lebanon is Shiite, 35% Christian, the remaining amt. Sunni and Druze. The 60% non Shiite, do not support Hezbollah, Syria, or shiite fundamentalism. The Christian Lebanese do not like Israel, but can live with them next door and do business with them. The Sunni and Druze have also demonstrated the same intentions. In regards to the Shiite Muslim population of Iran, it is safe and fair to say that the vast majority of them believe in Hezbollah, and agree with Hezbollah's vision- a fundamentalist Shiite Clerical state similiar to Iran and also believe that Israel shoud be dismantled and all Jews world-wide should be targeted for death until this is achieved. This wide spread sentiment has been promulgated and conditioned into these people by daily radio and t.v. broadcasts and programming calling for the murder of Jews worldwide and the destruction of Israel and t.v. shows depicting Jews as drinking the blood of Muslim children and the holocaust as never happening. So yes there is a collective social awareness or common point of view held by these people as to Jews and Israel and to deny it would be naive. That said, to understand Hezbollah is to understand that in addition to receiving $120 million from Iran yearly, or about $20 - $40 million monthly, Hezbollah depends on its Shiite citizens in Lebanon. It depends on them to participate in a world-wide economic network. It depends on these Shiites sending some of them overseas to Europe, Latin America, the United States, Canada, South Africa, Indonesia, the Phillipines and Australia-New Zealand. It depends on these people setting up elaborate criminal activities to raise funds. These activities consist of buying and re-selling stolen goods such as baby-food. Itd epends on them flooding the West with its sale of drugs. It depends on these people stealing passports and forging documents. It depends on these people recruiting sympathizers overseas. It depends on these people running dummy companies, front operations and fake charities to raise funds. It depends on these people telling their relatives and friends overseas that if they don't help, it will be very hard on their grand-dad or loved one back home. Hezbollah like any terrorist organization depends not just on foreign funding for its military weapons, but on its own citizens being actively involved. This is why Hezbollah has been linked to major international credit card fraud, welfare fraud, food stamp fraud, and so on. So is there a collective responsibility. Yes and no. There is a responsibility shared by any citizen in the world who encourages or supports or condones terrorism of any kind including the Shiites of Lebanon who openly support and keep Hezbollah alive. Should we blame all Lebanese and kill them all and punish them all, no no and no again. In an ideal world, Lebanon would be a free independent state. Its Christians, Druze, Sunnis and Shiites would leave in peaceful co-existence and its citizens would be free to travel and do business in Israel, Syria and anywhere else. In reality since Lebanon was created in 1942 by the French it has been an artificial enclave. It was officially created by the French as a colony to dominate the Middle East for France. Between the 40's and 1950's itcwas for a brief period of time a French colony and the French treated everyone as inferior savages. Yes if you were a French speaking Christian Lebanese citizen you were better off then a Sunni, Shiite or Druze, but for the most part, Lebanon survived just fine until Syria decided to take over Lebanon which it always viewed as being part of it. Since 1956, Syria has dominated Lebanon and the world looked the other way. Where does the collective responsibility then lie for what is happening today? Do we blame the French? Syrians? Iranians? Fundamentalist hezbollah terrorists and their supporters? Terrorist supporters world-wide?The UN? The Arab League? It doesn't matter. The point is, Lebanon's infrastructure was being used as an agent of terrorism and so becomes a target until the terrorists using that infrastructure are eradicated. If the infrastrucrure is destroyed to prevent it from being the lifeline and supply of blood that keeps Hezbollah alive, yes thousands will die and be displaced. Yes those people will find themselves caught in between the Hezbollah that uses them as a shield and as pawns to gain public sympathy and the Israelis who are in survival mode. To summarize, when you are being shot at you shoot back. If the person shooting at you hides behind someone, yes that person can die....and no youd on't have the luxury of being able to push the shield out of the way before you shoot. Its shoot back or die. That is why it depends on someone neutral to truly be able to remove that person caught in between. Right now the Blackdogs of the world don't want to remain neutral and help remove the person caught in between. They think the terrorist hiding behind the shield is a victim. If the Blackdogs of the world truly understood the equation they would not see good and bad and would focus their attention on defusing the conflict not condoning and encouraging one side to continue using shields. As long as their are Blackdogs trying to intellectually defend and rationalize terrorism, these terrorists shall continue and the reality is they have more contempt and disgust for the Blackdogs of the world who apologize for them then they do the Israeli army.

August you are dead on with your comments and one only need to look at the history of UN peace-keeping units where-ever they go including the Middle East. I have travelled through the disputed areas of the Golan, Southern Lebanon, and I would tell you the idea of placing a NATO force in a buffer zone will simply make them a huge target for terrorists to attack. The idea that NATO troops could then chase these terrorists in hot pursuit without killing or hurting civilians would be no more realistic then is what is happening now with Israel. So are we prepared for NATO forces to be bombed and attacked like the Canadians in Afghanistan and British and Americans in Iraq, or experience similiar problems to what the British Army went through in Nortehrn Ireland? That is what happens when you try use conventional military armies as policemen. Its a recipe for a guerilla war of attrition and paralyzed soldiers feeling impotent and feel like they are fighting shadows. I think the most realistic solution is to rebuild the Lebanese government free of influence from Syria, Iran, Hezbollah, Israel and who-ever else, and to place the Lebanese army in Southern Lebanon and to disarm any or all other militias and if anything, a NATO force should be sent in only to assist the Lebanese government and Lebanese army and I also think it would be a good idea if both Jordan and Israel could form a security alliance with Lebanon to help each other keep the area disarmed. That too is wishful thinking.

I know what you are getting at and I am not disagreeing with you but I do think pride can be a problem that prevents a lot of people from changing because it prevents them from asking for help and giving them an illusion that they are too good to consider certain things. I am not saying we should expect people to accept being humiliated but I do think for a lot of people with serious limitations, have overcome them and the barriers that come with them, precisely because they learned to not let their pride get in their way. I say that because I watch many disabled make it but deal with having their dignity taken away but refusing to let it get to them. You have to admire that kind of tenacity, courage and strength.

The last few weeks my mind has been deeply tied up over the Middle East because I spent years in a peace network trying to build peace between Muslims, Jews and Christians and have watched yet again, terrorists hijack the process. Now back to Canada and your comments. Clearly you are an angry person lashing out making generalizations and ethnic slurs. I think I would be right to say you sound like someone who feels they have no power to control their destiny and situation in life. So you externalize your feelings of helplessness and lack of power and look for people to blame. I can tell you this. We all struggle. There is no difference between you and me although if youw alked by me on the street you probably would only see what you want to see -someone better off then you and who you resent for being better off. The point is you only see that. Some of us are on the street desperate and broke, others are a fine line away from it and hide it through the massive accumulation of debt. But here is the crux of it all..your anger...your lashing out...your generalizations....your anger because you think people have what you don't, and you want the same things so feel its unfair...that...that is as much a capitalist attitude held by you as anyone else...your preoccupation as to what others have or what you think they have and your envy of not having it...that is what is killing you and rotting your soul.... You will never change unless you let go of the anger and stop looking to what you think others have, and refocus your attention back to yourself and examine your own self. You think you have no control? B.S. To have control you must let go of everything and accept nopt being in control. You have to let go of this illusion once and for all that you were in control and then lost your control. That is b.s. None of us own anything. None of us are in control of anything. Its an illusion and you Sir have bought into this materialistic illusion worse then all the people you think you hate. Want to find your way back...its simple...let go....give it all up...try this; find a place to shower and clean off your dirt, shave....and strip yourself of everything you were carrying, symbolically start again by putting on a different set of clothes and at least showering and shaving-yes that is a start. Then walk away. Walk away from where-ever you were and go some place where you have not been. Go into a different community centre and eat something and drink a coffee. Then walk into a public library and ask someone to show you how to use the internet. Learn to use the internet. You can do it. It is not hard. Then simply go on the internet and find a job any friggin job and do not worry about what kind of job it is and just do it. Work at anything. Work does not define you. But work at anything simply to prove to yourself you are not any different then anyone who works. These are all small steps but its part of dumping the anger and starting from scratch. As long as you are angry nothing will change. You may think you are angry at the world but you are simply turning the anger outworld when you really are angry and hate yourself. You have to forgive yourself and let go of all the anger that you should be something you are not. You are not intended to be anything other then to be whatever it is you can be at the moment and that means not being fueled by anger, booze, drugs and resentment. I only say this because I am you...its an illusion to think we are any different you and me. Good luck and believe in yourself and I believe in you. You have a right to be angry, tired and fed up but its not anything but an anchor you have to dump.

Arbour's comments are typical of intellectuals far removed from the actual conflict zone who talk about legal concepts and theories as if they are teaching in law school. In the real world, terrorists violate laws of any kind, and will deliberately use civilians as shields to hide behind. So what Ms. Arbour's postulations fail to address is the fact that if a terrorist breaks a law, murders, then hides behind a civilian when being shot back at, and that civilian dies, it is the terrorist morally and legally responsible for the death of the civilian both civily and criminally by placing that civilian in the direction and path of death. Under international law, Israel has the right to defend and engage in hot pursuit to prevent the death of its citizens. No international law says, Israel can not defend itself from the imminent threat of death or destruction because international criminal terrorists hide behind civilians. This concept of showing restraint is not based on any international law...its based on a misnomer from people who have never engaged or lived in a war, that you can have controlled and measured reponses when you go in hot pursuit of terrorists. This is the same defective thinking that says when a police officer shoots someone who pulls a knife on them, that police officer is wrong because they didn't use reasonable force back and should have only shot the person in their foot or use pepper spray. Its amazing how people love to second guess people for defending themselves from imminent danger and get all self-righteous and love to preach and depict criminals as victims in need of understanding. If Louise Arbour had a gun in her hand and someone was trying to rape and kill her does she think she would not use the gun? All I ask is that each and everyone of these intellectuals who lectures on restraint, is placed in a situation of imminent peril and see how they react. It is precisely because these intellectuals open their idiot mouths and make such comments, that terrorists feel incited to carry on because they know such intellects will criticize Israel. International crimes? Will Ms. Arbour call for the arrest and trial of each and every Hezbollah member, the Iranian government and the Syrian government, I doubt it. This conflict is not a game. Its not a case in a legal text book. It is a little more complex then lecturing about law when you are thousands upon thousands of miles away from death and destruction and you can afford to be smug and self-righteous. I personally think Ms.Arbour needs to travel to Israel and sit through a missile attack in Israel and then visit and talk to Muslim and Arab victims of Muslim terrorists as well.

Well everyone knows I am have been advocating on behalf of Israel in these wonderful debates we have had the last week but I want to be even-handed. The Palestinians voted for Hamas primarily because the PLO was a corupt and spent force. Arafat and his stooges were typical of terrorists. They ran the Gaza and West Bank no differently then any organized criminal group. Arafat and his cronies made hundreds of millions and stashed it in Swiss bank acounts while their people starved. Arafat like all his other terrorist stooges used their alleged anti-Israel status as a cover to mask what they really were, thieves, murderers and people who would take the last drop of food from their own people. I mean what a legacy it was when Arafat died from Aids, when his wife who lives in France on stolen, misappropriated Swiss bank accounts from money stolen from relief sent to Palestine, lectures the world on injustice. Does that pampered sow live in Gaza? The Palestinians voted for Hamas because it was not corupt. Its members are fundamentalists and so far they have resisted stealing money and spending it on themselves. As for voting for terrorists or people who want Israel exterminated, most Muslims in the Middle East do not have a problem with that. What the West does not understand because you do not travel in the Middle East and read its newspapers and listen to its tv and radio shows is that the vast majority of Muslims in the Middle East are fed daily, constant, anti-semitic messages calling for the death of all Jews and poryraying all Jews as evil monsters and infidel that need to be exterminated. If you constantly teach your people from when they are born until when they are dead that all Jews are to be killed and hated, voting for a terrorist cell dedicated to the anhilitation of Israel is no big deal. The big deal is whether that cell is corupt or not. I think its fair to say Hamas got elected not so much because they are terrorist but primarily because they weren't the PLO. I do agree though that Palestinians must embrace non violent methods to express their political will and that until they do, they lack credibility and the only people their decision to embrace terrorism and reject moderation fools is idiots here in Canada and the West who haven't a clue what is going on and parrot what they think they know from reading the Toronto Star.

Can you explain how this makes any sense at all? They choose not to control what they cannot control. Scrambling for excuses to bomb these people, aren't you? If you can't control what happens within your borders then you can't pretend to sovereignty over that area. And so someone else will come in and deal with it I will further back up your statement. The UN issued a resolution calling for the disarming of all militias in Lebanon. The Lebanese government openly rejected the resolution and referred to Hezbollah as legitimate freedom fighters who had the right to remain armed and remain in the South conducting terrorist operations. Lebanon first adopted that position using the occupation of the South by Israel as the excuse for this position. When Israel left and was no longer inside Lebanon, did Lebanon change its posiition. No. Did it do anything to stop Hezbollah from attacking Israel, no. It also had no problem with Hezbollah broadcasting on t.v. and radio violent, anti-semitic programming calling on the mass murder of Jews through-out the world. It continued to refer to Hezbollag as legitimate resistance fighters. How are they resistance fighters when there were no Israeli troops in Lebanon to resist. More to the point, the Lebanese government fully approved the movement of arms from Iran via Damascus Syria through all of Lebanon by truck. Lebanon has 70,000 troops, the Hezbollah, about 2 to 4 thou. 40% of Lebanon is Shiite. 35% is Christian, the remainder Sunni and Druze. Clearly the minority of the country, the Shiites support Hezbollah and clearly the Christian and Sunni Lebanese although they do not like Israel, do not support Hezbollah. This means the majority of Lebanon is being held hostage by a minority and a group of terrorist thugs whose charter does not recognize Christian and Sunni Lebanese as equals any more then it does anyone else. Hezbollah wants a Shiite fundamentalist state imposed on everyone if it could have its way. So let us do away with the fiction. Lebanon could have demanded Hezbollah disarm or move up North away from the Israeli border and it chose not to because Syria has been able to control its government and block any action against Hezbollah. The fact is prior to this latest incident with Hezbollah attacking Israel, it had lost all credibility in Lebanon. It could no lonegr refer to itself as a resistance army defending Lebanon. Because Lebanon finally got rid of the Syrians, Hezbollah the proxy army of Syria suddenly found itself unwelcome and seen as a vestigate of Syrian colonial influence. It deliberately attacked Israel to provole Israel into invading Lebanon to regain its status as a force defending Lebanon as opposed to what it always has been a radical anti Israeli, anti-Sunni, anti-Christian terrorist cell of thugs who have no problem holding civilians hostage, kidnapping them, killing them, hijacking planes and violating every rule of human decency. In the Middle East, if you are a Muslim and you lack credibility, the easiest way to regain your credibility is to be seen as attacking Israel and standing up to it. The one and only thing Muslims agree on in the Middle East is their shared hatred of Israel and that is all Hezbollah is doing, its exploiting this anti-semitism to try regain its authority and status in Lebanon and at what cost? With the exception of Black Dog and probably Shiites in Lebanon and Iran, who really supports Hezbollah. Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan do not. For that matter, Syria is Sunni not Shiite and Sunni opposition within Syria to its alliance with Shiite Iran has always been kept down with a vicious Mukbarat intelligence force of killers who murder any Sunni Syrian who questions the alliance.