Rue

Right Keng. Women are violent towards one another because they won't believe in your version of Christianity. So now Keng the expert on Christianity, the new testament,the holocaust is now on expert on women's violence. Got news for you Keng, all the above comment does is manifest your fear of women. Pathetic.

The point is to pretend this murder is not linked to someone's fundamentalist religious beliefs is bull-shit. This man killed his daughter because in his opinion she was not honouring Muslim traditions. In this man's mind, he is a Muslim who lost his temper disciplining a girl who would not be his version of Muslim. Tp pretend we just ignore he is a Muslim and his Muslim fundamentalist beliefs should not be referred to is bullshit. If we was a fundamentalist Hindu, Hew or Christian we would be looking at the religious connection as well. The point is many people who are Muslim come to this country, and try impose a Muslim fundamentalist faith on their families and children as taught to them by their Immams. In fact an Immam went on t.v. supporting the father saying his daughter was disobedient to Islam. Another Immam called the first Immam full of it. To pretend there are not factions of Islam in Canada and some are coming into direct conflict with our laws and norms is bullshit. You want to see bullshit just look at Buffy's response trying to suggest if someone questions the role of fundamentalist religion in this matter, they are racist but this coming from someone who will make sweeping generalizations about Jews if it suits her and by the way joined Drea's band-wagon on Germany forgetting the problems 3.2 million Muslims are experiencing in Germany with intolerance. Got a news flash for you Buffy the political groupy or anyone else its not anti-Islam to say religious fundamentalism is at the heart of this issue. Of course it is. Feminism? Don't want to hear it? Tough. What do you think this is? Its about men beating up and killing women they can not control. Its domestic violence pure and simple fueled by religious beliefs. I can criticize it as gender violence using Islam as a pretence because that is what it was. Does it mean I hate Muslims? No. Does it mean I have a problem with Muslims and their Immams who preach fundamentalism and that women obey their husbands and cover their faces because the Immam or husband says so-yes. Am I going to pretend in certain mosques this does not happen, no. I have Muslim women friends who chose to where the Hijab-I support them. I know other women who do not. I support them. What I do not support is their husbands, brothers, Uncles, Immams tryingt o impose fundamentalist standards on them and no I will not pretend it has nothing to do with Islam. This is not the first time this kind of violence has happened and it will not be the last. In this country we all must follow certain rules and laws and one of them is you do not put your hands on a woman for any reason when she is an adult. This man has no excuse. Anyone knee jerk reacting and claiming its anti-Muslim to look at the role of Muslim fundamentalist beliefs fueling domestic violence is a hippocrate. All religions must be criticized. You have no free get out of jail cards. No don't play that poor Muslim shit with me. I criticize everyone equally Buffy. Save your selective liberal guilt and whose band-wagon you jump on for someone else.

I didn't know you were an immigrant. Is that the explanation?

In a tell tale comment Keng describes the role of women in Christianity as and I quote; "Expecting that a woman devote herself to raising children is neither controlling or oppression; it's simply an acknowledgement that men and women have different roles, and in a truly Christian household, where a husband respects and loves his wife, this sort of arrangement is not a problem.” These are interesting remarks because immediately preceding them Keng stated people are seen as equal before God. Yet no sooner does he state people are considered equal before god in the New Testament, he then explains the above role which clearly does not have men and women sharing the same roles but engaging in distinct, differentiated roles. Interestingly when Cypercoma challenged him on the above not being a concept about equality but of discriminatory roles Keng's immediatre response was and I quote; “That's just utter nonsense. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. “ Again Keng manifests that when someone tries to challenge or question him, he will not respond with respect but becomes abusive and hostile. But it goes further. Its not just an abusive and hostile name-call it becomes the following and I quote: “Who are you to say such a thing when you clearly have little understanding of the Bible and prefer to twist and misrepresent what little you "know"? “ So its not Keng just calling someone a name for challenging him, but he must go the next step and call the person ignorant and deceptive and engaging in a dishonest act. He does not just name call, but assign negative characteristics and motives to those he feels challenge him and in so doing acts out, or manifests or evidences the exact characteristic he described earlier on when he defined a sinner as someone who attacks and tries to destroy another's faith. Isn't it interesting he does the exact same thing he claims a sinner does? I then bring your attention to Keng's comments in post 77; “Well, obvious someone who doesn't know can't understand, so the fault for not having something explained ultimately rests on them; in order to understand, one has to be willing to listen and learn, but all you've demonstrated is that you want to mock and ridicule. Well, that's a choice that you've made, and that's all there really is to it.” Keng on the one hand mocks Cybercoma by dismissing his opinion as nonsense, then assigns him negative characteristics and motives of deception plus ignorance and now accuses Cupercoma of mocking and ridiculing him. Again Keng evidences he does the exact thing he accuses others of. Finally I bring to your attention his comments in post 62 where he launches an attack on another poster who challenges his description of Christianity; In post 62 Keng states: “Again, you're argument loses any relevance when you start quoting from the Old Testament and clearly without understanding the context in which the verse was written. You said you were raised an evangelical Christian? Honestly? What denomination?” Is it not interesting Keng repeatedly asks other for their religious denomination (this is the second in the last three days) and continually claims he not they is an authority on the Bible not to mention the holocaust, but will not tell anyone what his denomination is and what his academic back-ground is he claims is the source of his expertise? So Keng what denimination are you and what is your academic expertise? Every time you state your religious opinions you put down the religious beliefs of others on the pretense that you are the only one who understands the New Testament. So tell us. As for the sinner definition Keng do tell us where your knowledge comes from. Oh by the way Keng, or should I be referring to you as King Keng at this point, do you note I continue to follow you. Could it be I like children and want them to grow up in a safe world Keng? What do you think?

In post 55 Keng states; “Congradulations. But there is a difference between being able to read the Bible in its entirety and being able to comprehend it properly.” The abiove statement evidences Keng presumes he reads the Bible properly and so is in the position to lecture others as what it “properly” means. I would suggest the above evidences a narccissistic and anti-social manifestation in that Keng can not acknowledge someone else may have thoughts and feelings diffferent than his and if they do, they must be imperfect or evil and he must "control" them and tell them "how they must think and feel". I would suggest in a world with adults, Keng would find the world hostile and so have huge lists of people persecuting his beliefs or hiding things from him or attacking and destroying him as he has referred to precisely because he can not control the thoughts and feelings of adults. Religion is the symbolic representation for the lack of control. Religion becomes the weapon to try regain control using lectures and procolomations to state what is allowed and what is not allowed-only the more he tries to control, the more he loses control as his words conflict and express onbious contradictions. For example in post 59 Keng states; “..but the NT teachs that all people are equal before God…” Yet in each and every comment from Keng he defines people as being unequal to him in knowledge and moral value. He says one thing that he claims to believe, but manifests another in the words he places in his responses. All one need do is read back his references to gays, women or Jews or communists or untrue Christians or sinners.

What you think I am finished pointing out Keng's contradictions? Please I do a thorough job. In post 11 keng stated; “I recall one time John Travolta spazzing out on camera about Germany being "fascist" for treating Scientology the way it does. Talk about stupid. Well, just about everyone in Hollywood is stupid, so I guess he was being really stupid. “Once again Keng illistrates his technique of makei a sweeping generalized statement adding to the list of people he hates this time including “just about everyone in Hollywood”. Keng continues his tradition of making a sweeping negative generalization to insult, ridicule and dismiss a group of people he does not know but presumes to think he knows. The above comments are hateful and intolerant and when you add them to his ever-growing list of untrue Christians, communists, gays, women who do not stay at home and make babies, idiots, liberals, Jews, hey and don't forget me, its getting quite crowded. In fact so crowed its standing room only at this point. In post 39 responds to the concept of religious war witht he following comments that do not address the cause and effect of religious wars but in fact serve as an opportunity for Keng to lecture as to what he feels a sinner is which by the way contradicts what he has stated in other posts on other topics; “Look at what you're dealing with, though. You could make rational, factual arguments about tis all you want but it will just not make a difference to some people. People who are wrapped up in their own sin simply have to lead a life that justifies their past indiscretions because their lack of faith leads them to believe that there can be no forgiveness for the error of their ways, that there is no meaning to life other than satiating wordly desires. And one of the means by which they seek to justify their lifestyle is to attack and destroy the faith that tells them otherwise; they fear goodness, they fear admitting they are wrong, and they fear taking responsibility for their actions.” He reference to “some people” is in fact his subjective feeling. When he then describes sinners as “people …wrapped up in their own sin simply have to lead a life that justifies their past indiscretions..” and “one of the means by which they seek to justify their lifestyle is to attack and destroy the faith that tells them otherwise;” and “they fear goodness, they fear admitting they are wrong and they fear responsibility for their actions”...what Keng does is to create concepts and then impose them as being synonomous with the definition of sinner. They are not based on the New Testament which he repeatedly claims he is an authority on. You will note he does not quote the New Testament when he creates these definitions. The words are also interesting because his subjective theories as to the pssyche and inner cognitive processes of sinners has nothing to do with the religious wars issue he claimed to respond to. In Keng’s opinion he has assumes a sinner is someone who is leading a life to justify past indiscretions….its interesting he projects this into the mind of what he thinks a sinner is. Why does he assume this? Do you really think it comes from the Bible? It probably comes from the same subjective perceptions Keng projects onto sinners when he assumed that sinners have no faith and do not believe they can be forgiven. In Keng's world if he feels someone is a sinner they must be. Keng's construct can not fathom the possibility he may be incorrect about someone being a sinner and simply not understand them. Using this cognitive process if you disagree with Keng automatically you are a sinner. But it goes further then that because in Keng's world, sinners “attack and destroy the faith that tells them otherwise”. In keng's world he is "the faith that tells them otherwise". I would contend this is a classic example of how he uses the pretence of Christian religion to project upon others he does not know negative characteristics to demonize them to then justify his intolerance towards them by them.

Now for anyone following the sage Keng is hiding from me from another series of posts and is refusing to disclose his alleged Christian denomination while demanding others reveal there denominations. I find it ironic this Hebrew is chasing him from post to post reminding him. Ah but on to his latest comments and contradictions shall we? 1. In Post 10, his first response to this topic he responded to M. Dancer's comment as follows: “QUOTE(M.Dancer @ Dec 7 2007, 08:59 AM) Scientology has more incommon with Weight Watchers, Amway and Heaven's Gate than an organized traditional religion.... Whether it is more dangerous than Jehova's Witnesses that forbid blood tranfusions, or more dangerous than some old order protestant sects that have had the misfortune of distilling to closely their gene pool is another story.......but where as Weight Watchers will take lighten your load, The Church of El Ron will lighten your wallet. It costs big bucks to be auditted of all that umwanted alien rays.... Oh....and they are nuts.” Keng responded with the comments; “None of these exist in Germany anymore, to my knowledge.” Of course the response given by Keng contains an ambiguous reference which could appear to suggest Scientology, Weight Watcher’s, Amway, Heaven’s Gate, Jeohva’s Witnesses, blood transfusions and older protestant sects, no longer exist in Germany. Let's assume Keng is writing in an unclear manner and is either referring to Jehova's Witnesses or other Christian sects...he's again trying to pass of his subjective unsubstantiated remarks as facts. To start with the Jehova’s Witnesses are in fact alive and well and have legal status in Germany: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1530197,00.html As well, here is the exact breakdown from Wikepedia of the religions in Germany today including NUMEROUS PROTESTANT SECTS MANY OF WHICH ARE OLD SECTS; Protestantism • Protestants 27.1 M (32.7%) o Evangelical Church in Germany 25.386 M (30.8%) o New Apostolic Church 380,490 (rather special, not Protestant in a strict sense) o Aussiedler-Baptisten 300,000-380,000 o Jehovah's Witnesses 166,000 o Baptists (mostly Bund Evangelisch-Freikirchlicher Gemeinden in Deutschland KdöR) 85,000 o Methodists 63,000 o Free Evangelical / Charismatic 50,000 o Christliche Versammlungen / Freier Brüderkreis / Plymouth Brethren 45,000 o Bund Freikirchlicher Pfingstgemeinden 40,000 o Evangelical Methodist Church (Evangelisch-methodistische Kirche) 38,000 o Independent Evangelical-Lutheran Church 37,460 o Mennonites 39,414 o The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 36,000 o Gemeinschaft der Siebenten-Tags-Adventisten (STA) 36,000 o Apostelamt Jesu Christi 20,000 o Federation of Evangelist-reformed churches of Germany (Bund Evangelisch-reformierter Kirchen Deutschlands) 13,000 o Johannische Kirche [3] 3,500 o Christian municipalities Elim (Christengemeinden Elim) 10,000 o Apostolische Gemeinschaft 6,000 [Catholicism • Roman Catholics 25.905 M (31.4%) • Old Catholics 25,000 Orthodoxy • Orthodox 1.5-2 M. (ca. 2%) o Orthodox Church of Constantinople 450,000 o Russian Orthodox Church 300,000 - 400,000 o Romanian Orthodox Church 300,000 o Serbian Orthodox Church 250,000 - 300,000 o Syriac Orthodox Church 180,000 - 230,000 o Armenian Orthodox Church 85,000 - 120,000 o Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church 13,000 o Greek Orthodox Church 13,000 o Assyrian Church 6,000 o Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church 3,600 o Coptic Orthodox Church (Egyptian) 3,000 o Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kyiv Patriarchate 1,000 • The Christian Community 10,000 Islam • Muslims 3.3 M (4.0%); number of Muslims with German citizenship: 732,000 (1.0%). o Sunni 2.2 M o Alevite 340,000 o Shi'a 170,000 o Ahmadiyya 50,000 o Ismaili 12,000 o Sufi 10,000 Buddhism • Buddhists 230,000 (0.27%) Judaism • Jews 200,000 (0.25%) • Union of Progressive Jews in Germany 3,000 members • Central Council of Jews in Germany Most Jewish communities Others • Hindu 90,000 (0.1%) • Yazidi 30,000 No Religion • Non Religious 24.4 M (29.6%)

For the same reason he has the audacity to ask someone what their denomination is when he has repeatedly refused to say what his is. Hint I am coming back with some more responses. Look out Keng here I come!

I also again state August I found your post and comments interesting and geoffrey's response to particularly the above words. Probably my only minor thing to add would be Geoffrey I would also like to see a comaparative religion class taught in schools that showed students the things religions have in common and explain why humans have faith belief systems.

An interesting post and words August. Thanks.

Here are a few historical reference sources in regards to Christianity and its relationship in the Third Reich. What's interesting is that Christian theologians are pulling no punches in discussing the topic openly and candidly as to what they see were moral failures, and in fact Jewish scholars tend to be more lenient when discussing the issue then Christian scholars. Jewish scholars are more likely to see it as an aberation from Christianity whereas some Christian scholars are more harsh saying while it certainly was not Christian, many Christians did allow their religion to be caught up in hated and Nazism, etc. The difference between myself and Keng is I quote my reference sources, and I do not make sweeping subjective generalizations of Christians when I discuss this issue and it should suprise no one Keng tries to twist and turn himself first denying any connection to Christianity then trying to make it seem as if it was simply a Catholic phenomena. He raises the fact that Hitler was a Catholic...just as he does to suggest communists are Jews. Hitler's being born Catholic does not mean as Keng now does, that you simply smeer Catholics because Hitler was born Catholic. I again urge you to realize Keng's pronouncements on history should sound familiar to you know-anti-gay, anti-Jewish, anti-Catholic, anti-woman, anti-liberal, etc. and are probably the reason he doesn't have the integrity to say who he is a member of; http://assets.cambridge.org/97805218/23715...521823715ws.pdf http://www.adl.org/braun/dim_14_1_role_church.asp http://www.hearnow.org/id.html http://www.templeshalom.net/sermons/kahn-nazism-2000.html http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/church/persecution/ http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/hist/jpetr...ge/protesta.htm

Say now Keng, you were going to share with us what your Christian denomination was and what your academic training and expertise was....remember? Now isn't it interesting you suggest people are "hiding things from you". So now we must reveal our gender, and sexual preference when addressing Keng. bSay aren't you the same Keng whor efuses to reveal his Christian denomination and academic standing after he has told everybody repeatedly he is a true Christian and his denomination is the only true Christian sect and of course that you are an academic with historical expertise on the holocaust? Oopsy you did it again Keng. Accuse someone else of the exact thing you engage in. Geez imagine that Keng. Now this suspecting people of hiding things because they don't agree with you, gee Keng think that is rational or perhaps just maybe it might be just a tad anti-social and paranoid? And now that you have broached the subject when will you reveal yourself to the world? Since you keep claiming to be a Christian and a purveyor of truth why do you continue to hide your alleged denomination and church and what the academic expertise is you have and have told everyone makes you superior to everyone? Hey now Keng I am glad you sppeculate that I am a gay teenage women. You see Keng it establishes a precedent does it not? So now I get to use that exact same form of "reasoning" to assume you could be someone full of rage and sexual conflict who is living a double life and struggles to try repress violent and abusive urges and desperately needs to control and can't when he is with adults so....... What do you think Keng?

Yay! Some responses by Keng to me directly now let's see; "Well, let's see, there are Jews that are hostile to Christianity, always were. " There we go. There are Jews out there that hate Christians. Why because Keng has pronounced it as so. "Those that weren't usually became Christians because they recognized the truth about Christ. " Bingo. Jews are hostile to Christians because we don't believe the truth about Christ. Now of course that's not a hostile statement about Jews by someone claiming to be a follower of Christ. That's just Keng educating the world why Jews are hostile-because we are no believers. "It's also not a big secret that many Jews joined the ranks of socialist and comminist groups, have always been leading proponents of these ideologies. " There we go. Another generalization preceded with "its no secret". Not only are Jews hostile to Christians because they are non believers but they are Communists. Of course Keng is calling Jews dirty commies now but skips over the part of they are commies they would be atheists not Jews which completely shreds his arguement, unless of course, the only intent is to smeer. They are Jews in this sense not because of their religious beliefs as they were in the original comment about not believing in Christ, now they are Jews even though they are atheists because even when you do not believe in Judaism, according to Keng you can still be labeled a Jew. And of course Keng once again provides critical analysis to back up his claim-Keng's foot note is......."its no secret" and once again we see....because keng feels it is so, it must be so. "And as for "insult Christans," well, what exactly is it you've been trying to do recently?" Yes. I am the one who came on the post and made and continue to make sweeping generalizations about all Christians. Hey you know what keng, I even provided a list of all the untrue Christians out there. Yes it was me. Not you. Yes my responses to you do nothing but make generalizations about Christians. "It's really convenient to paint anything somebody with a differing opinion has as "anti-" something," Somebody? We are talking about you Keng. Interesting you try hide behind the word somebody, as if its not you. That is called dettaching or compartmenalizing oneself Keng. Trying to pretend you are someone other then who you are is kind of silly don't you think? Its not somebody, keng-its you-its your words I am challenging, no one else's. "and you obviously know what the implications are for somebody being branded an "antisemite". " There we go. Keng has spoken. Only Keng can decide what is anti-semitic. "The fact that you would resort to this in such an unnecessary and brazen manner is, quite frankly, disgusting, shameful and repugnant. " My criticism of your hateful statements which as is evidenced yet again in your above responses to me, have been clear and specific as to what you said and what I am challenging. Now Keng your trying once again to play the victim of an attack is hilarious. The notion you are an innocent man being persecuted is great. "There's a difference between "refugees" and "immigrants," and my comments about refugees refers to their arrival in large groups." There's Keng doing the back-peddle. Say Keng Michael Jackson used to do that a lot. Some people believe he's a pedophile. Usher can do it too but he's married now Keng. Now say Keng, as you back-peddle, now you would have us believe you love "refugees" as long as they come in "small groups"? Hah. I guess your denomination doesn't sponsor refugee groups now does it Keng. Oh wait, you still have not told us what that denomination is. "That's just the way it is; if that's the truth of the matter as revealed in the Gospels. " There we go. Didn't take too long for you to begin telling everyone you are divine again. "It has nothing to do with people not agreeing with me, rather is the consequence of living a life of sin and not recognizing God as the creator and Jesus as our saviour, sent by God to die for our sins so that we may have an eternal life when we leave this mortal world. " So let me get this straight Keng-its not a matter of agreeing with you, but if one does not believe in the Christian religion as you define it, they are sinful but it has nothing to do with agreeing with you. Yes that makes sense. See its not your opinions you state right? when Keng speaks, since its truth, its not a matter of agreeing with Keng, its a matter of agreeing with the drum roll please...truth. Keng psst over here, your version of truth and what you think must be, that's you Keng. Its your feelings. The fact that you can not differentiate your feelings from anyone else's and believe everyone must have your feelings, is called, narcissism. Yes Keng its possible someone may have a belief or beliefs different then yours and not be a sinner. You Keng live in a world where you are so full of yourself and the belief you are perfect and truthful you can't imagine a world of people who would not think or feel or believe differently then you and that is precisely why you come on this forum. You come to scorn anyone who will not feel and believe and think like you, so of course that list of persecutors against you, that you shared, oh it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and pretty soon Keng well you know what will happen, remember Jim Jones? "I guess that I'm not supposed to infer anything from your indirectly hostile critiques of the Christian faith, though, as that would just make me an antisemite." Don't hide behind Christianity Keng. My criticism has been of you and your words not Christianity. You do not speak for or represent the Christian faith. What you speak for and represent is what you feel the Christian faith stands for. Keng your belief you speak on behalf of all Christians went out the toilet when you shared your persecution list. True up until then you could play the Jew card and say I was just a Jew mad at a Christian, but that went out the window when you just could not resist preaching your hatred and tossed in all those other Christian groups. Anything else dear?

Here is my Christmas present to Buffy, a list of academic sites to provide her an alternative to Lenni Brenner on the subject she feels Mr. Brenner has presented with veracity. You will note I provided you a Jewish scholar, a Christian Scholar, and yes even a Japanese scholar all who actually followed the basic rules of protocol academic historians will prescribe to and brenner does not, for example everything they present is foot-noted and referenced. why Buffy I even gave you the name of a leading German Zionist during world war two and his acrchives so you can see the actual documents. The problem is given you are bamed Buffy not Moishe, I am not sure you peak Hebrew so you may need to have them translated. They have all been verified by non Jews as being authentic and I think you will be quite disappointed to find out Mr. Brenner was not interested in actually reporting what really happened. Ah Buffy history is so much fun when you go to the library and look up the archives. Actually you can google Brenner and get pictures of him. Not a very good looking man. Of course he has a horrible beard and looks like he has not washed. be careful who you befriend Buffy. Men can have fleas and other gross stuff. Never know what's in his beard. Guys like him tend to give a lot of talks so you know they spit too and it gets stuck in there. I never trusted Santa for that reason. Men with beards are bad news. Oops I am making sweeping generalizations! Stop that now. http://wsupress.wayne.edu/judaica/history/lavskybc.htm http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/cata...isbn=052188392X http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/ho...9.3nicosia.html http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displ...amp;aid=1300584 http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0022-2801...%3E2.0.CO%3B2-2 http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.cgi?p...325661163443029 http://www.bodenheimer.org/ http://www.aisisraelstudies.org/2007papers...007_Tsurumi.pdf

Earth to Keng calling. No one has stated Nazism is Christianity. You have once again missed the point. How about you go back to the Oxford Journals you like to quote on Genocide Studies and read what Christian theologians have written. Instead of lecturing about something you don't understand Keng further going off on some bizarre tangent missing the point-how about you come down off the pulpit and take a cold shower.

So Keng now you claim to be an academic as well as a Christian. So do share with us your academic expertise. what degrees do you have Keng? Or is this another one of those references to how superior you are but when challenged to back up your bragging as to your academic expertise, like your bragging about being of a Christian demonination that is the only true Christian one-you will cower and not answer? Do tell us. Share your academic training. I will be pleased to share mine if you ask. But of course the difference between us keng is I have never once come on this forum and shoved my alleged academic credentials in anyone's face to try belittle them or insult them. In fact keng even Buffy who I debate as strongly as I can hoping she will not be corupted by people like you I respect because at least she tries to debate. She makes an effort to do something genuine. She does not intentionally insult people or claim to be superior to them which is why I respect her very much and show her the highest form of respect I can give-strong debate. How about you? You have yet to debate anyone. You have yet to come on this forum and provide a referenced source for any of your opinions or to respond to anyone's comments with counter-points. All you have done is express subjective remarks dismissing people and for the first time when you did provide a reference you didn't even quote it or reference it to the very point you were making! It didn't even support what you were saying...at least Buffy references her opinions and does read what she quotes. How about you? So now Keng, do tell us. You come on this forum as historian, theologian, moral judge, Christian authority, expert on the holocaust, and now you brag about it. So tell us. Show us what your academic expertise is. Or will hide from that as you do your alleged references to being a member of a Christian demoninatuon? Let's see now Keng have I got it all; 1-references to academic expertise but refusal to indicate what it is 2-references to Christian expertise but refusal to indicate that denomination you are a member of 1-narcissism (comments continually denying anyone's feelings but your own) 2-homo-sexual anxiety and feelings homo-sexuals are out to get you and are involved in conspiracies (as demonstrated in numerous posts) 4-mysogeny (demonstrated in comments about women and now your most recent comments) 5-anti-semitism (Jews are hostile to Christians, jews insult Christians, Jews are victimizers, Jews cooperated with the Gestapo, Jews were involved in communist conspiracies) 6-a belief the world is hostile and full of untrue Christians, and others out to persecute you ( as shared in your list of persecutors provided by you included Jews, untrue Christians, communists, liberals and idiots to name but a few) 7-a belief you are superior to others (morally, intellectually, spiritually as repeatedly told to readers in your responses) 8-contempt towards new Canadians (as pretensed in your sweeping comment as to refugees and how you do not see any need to admit them) 10-the belief people go to hell if they don't agree with you (as repeated in numerous comments). Have I missed anything Keng? Can't wait to hear about your Christian and academic back-grounds. Man I love Christmas.

Once again you share with the world what a genius you are and how everyone you disagree with are smeered and dismissed with some insults. Keng you have made yourself an absurd laughing stock precisely because of the kind of ignorant comments like the above. Can you say anything that does not reflect hatred and venom? You've managed to insult and attack, gays, Jews, virtually anyone Christian other then you, and now someone you have never read but label and dismiss with another hate comment. It must be quite a struggle Keng to try shut out the entire world. You show it in every sentence. The entire world is out to get you so you dismiss it as hostile and full of enemies. Its pathetic Keng. Now let's get something straight. Your quotation marks about "undesireables" was not the issue. Your coming on this forum with no referenced information to simply try talk down opinions you do not agree with was. I note when you quoted the Oxford Journal you conveniently skipped the article on the link between Christianity and Nazism written by a Christian scholar as part of those genocide studies. My but we are selective aren't we Keng. Even the passage you claim to have quoted contradicts entirely what you said, and had you read it you would have known that. Now let's get real specific Keng. You let it slip again and have admitted to this forum that your idea of conversing with "Jews" is to deal with them on the inter-net site. So you haven't spoken with any Jew-you've read their internet comments and from that you label them as insulting to Christians the way they talk about the holocaust. That Keng again shows you blatantly label people with hateful terms not because of anything other then you disagreeing with them. So tell me Keng, what denimination of Christian are you. Why are you so afraid to say what it is? Come on Keng. You came on this post smeering all Christians other then you as not being true Christians and yet you won't say what denomination you are. Until you do Keng, until you have the integrity to state what you are, we know what you are-someone who uses the word "Christian" to come on this forum and inflame people. Now that you have proven you have probably never ever spoken to any Jew in your life, and have demonstrated you make things up as you go along and make them try sound as if they are factual, how does one conclude anything other then you are not a member of any denomination you probably have never been able to stay in a church precisely because of your beliefs. Do prove me wrong Keng. Show us all how I am persecuting you with such comments and tell us your demomination so we can find out where your Christian beliefs come from because right now Keng they seem to come from you not any denomination that taught you what you keep sharing with us.

Try this site Oleg. Its written by Christians on the relationship between Christianity and the holocaust. http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/guilt.html

If anyone is genuinely interested in reading and finding out about the holocaust, immigration policy, what the West knew and when its here: You can find the actual Western intelligence documents and cables and messages sent back and forth. It also documents what Keng says is a denial of the actual historic facts which have been corroborated by neutral third parties. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...st/knewtoc.html http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...st/history.html http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...aust/nsarep.pdf http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...aust/imtoc.html http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc.../denialtoc.html http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=...uG&b=394663

So just what is your faith Keng. You claimed you are a Christian and a member of a denomination that has taught you everything you state, and yet when asked to provide a source for your Christian beliefs, i.e., the name of your sect, you refuse. So how does one misrepresent your faith when you will not state what it is other then to refer to yourself as a “true Christian” and dismiss everyone including Christians as non believers who persecute you? You have never stated what your beliefs are in fact, all you have done is to state everyone else is going to hell or is persecuting you. Before you accuse anyone of misrepresenting your faith have the honesty to state what it is. Until you do Keng you are simply a charlatan hiding behind cryptic references to claiming you are a Christian. Now you claim I misrepresent you Keng, how about we go back then and tell me which one of your passages I have misquoted or misrepresented in your latest exercise, how about we start with your two statements where you question whether Jews were killed in the holocaust: “…even the Gestapo cooperated with Zionists in getting Jews to Palestine. If they wanted to exterminate Jews, why do that? Post 84” “remember, the Nazis were shipping people off to Palestine, and they had allowed Jews to leave so that they could go somewhere else; if they wanted them all dead at that time, why would this have been going on?” Post 130 You denied saying the first statement and then repeated the questioning of the holocaust the second time, here again are your words denying what you said above; “nowhere did I "suggest" that the Nazis "did not exterminate Jews". Post 93” This is what you do Keng, You make deliberately hateful comments designed to incite, then when challenged and called on them, play the victim and deny you stated them only you have done this so many times Keng in so many posts its worn thin Keng and I doubt even those people who gave you the benefit of the doubt at one point do anymore. Or how about this denial you issued three times; Again, I haven't denied or "dismiss[ed]" the mass killing of Jews and other "undesireables". (repeated 3 times in post 93) Not only does it evidence you repeat the same misrepresentation over and over trying to deny what you said-showing a deliberate pattern of denial, but you referred to Jews as undesireables three times. Some people would say you just do not know how to write its simply am abiguous reference. I say really? How does a man who repeatedly denies what he said 4 times do so innocently without thinking through his words? Think its an innocent mistake? I leave that to other readers to decide. I find your repeated denial disturbing for two reasons, I-you try deny what you said, ii-you refer to Jews as undesireables because you genuinely believe they were. Do I misrepresent your faith because I call you a hate monger? Really? Read what you said: “Excluding non-believers is not "discriminatory" from Christian communities; non-believers will only try to undermine and corrupt Christianity, and that's exactly what has been happening for some time now. That's exactly what you're doing…..the NT makes it clear who's really right and who's really wrong…post 93” According to your faith Keng which you claim to is Christian it gives you the right to stop anyone from coming to Canada who does not share your views-and then you say that is not discriminatory! Tell me Keng how is excluding people who do not follow your version of what you think is true “wrong’ let alone “anti-Christian”? It is precisely for the above comment I say you are a hate monger who uses the pretence of Christian religion to hate people and discriminate against them and justify your hatred. So I misrepresent your faith Keng…how about this comment from you: “Incidently, many Christians were killed by the Nazis, and along with other non-Jewish victims of the Nazi regime, probably numbered in the millions. Sad to say that I have often heard Jews only refer to only the Jewish victims of Nazism. I suppose that could be construed as an "insult" in a way, don't you think? “Post 93 You stated the above comment to taunt Jews about the holocaust and suggest we insult Christians when we talk of the holocaust. That Sir makes you someone who taunts. Its transparent and it shows the part of you we first saw when you repeatedly tried to call all gays pedophiles and then deny you did. You taunt Keng and people who taunt do so because they feel the need to put others down. Why else did you ask this question Keng? Do try play the victim some more and tell us what you really meant when you suggested Jews insult Christians the way we talk about the holocaust. Here you are coming on this board to deny the holocaust and rationalize what Nazis did and then you play the victim and accuse Jews of victimizing Christians over the holocaust? So tell me Keng. What words above did I misquote or misunderstood? How about this one Keng: “It's pretty arrogant to suggest that somehow despite the fact of Israel was created, that everyone should just live in peace and leave Israel alone “ – post 82 So now you find it arrogant because people would want to live in peace and just be left alone? That is arrogance? You consider someone who wants be peaceful arrogant? So tell me Keng what have I misquoted. You Keng are now stating people who want peace are arrogant. Does anyone in their right mind believe a Christian would call a person who wants peace arrogant? Does anyone believe that is a Christian precept? Speaking of arrogant Keng these are your words from post 97; “And you obviously need a good lesson in the history of Germany. Sadly it appears that you can't discuss the issue without anti-this and anti-that.” You lectured another poster with deliberately patronizing and condescending words and then proceeded to do exactly what you criticizedhim for, and something you have done in each and every post you have responded with (criticize someone for doing something, and then doing the exact same thing in the next sentence!) here are your words Keng, where you e ngage in anti-this and anti-that: “Jews weren't allowed into the country from 1940-1945 because there was a war on.” Post 96 “..don't see why any country should be obliged to taken in any boatload of refugees, regardless of who they are, when they simply show up off the coast wanting to get in.” post 127 “…but if you're trying to tell me that the Canadian government was fully aware of what was being discussed amongst the high-ranking members of the German government, then you're wrong. Nor can the Canadian government know what the Nazis were going to cook up in the coming years, nor how brutal and sweeping it would be. It's convenient to make arguments about what was known at the time in hindsight, and to twist it to suit one's critique of history. “–post 130 Tell me Keng what in the above comments from you or any comments you have ever made have been referenced to a source to prove they are anything but you fabricating subjective opinions and trying to make them sound valid when all they are is designed to simply be anti anything being told to you from posted sources? You finally provided one source Keng and you did exactly what I warned readers you would do, remove the information out of context without reading it. Had you read the agreement you were quoting Keng and reserached it, you would realize it proves the exact opposite of what you have been trying to prove-that there was no collaboration between Nazis and Jews at all and that this agreement was forced on Jews as a way to save Jews and if there had in fact been a collaboration such an agreement would never have been drafted! I state it again Keng you are now past the point of being a charlatan. You not only play the victim being persecuted but you refuse to indicate the faith you claim to have and you make continued references to collaboration of Jews with the Nazis and Gestapo and have not provided one document to prove it. You Keng pure and simple are someone who has come on this forum to inflame and unfortunately you can incite and contaminate young people who do not take the time to read what you are distorting, so yes I make it my mission Keng to challenge you and every time you try play the victim with me and refuse to respond to your points with prove, you dig your hole just a bit deeper and yes I have the patience Keng to ride you into the sun-set. Now if you wish to try for once in your life to be honest and provide references and state what your belief is based on other then cryptic refences to the fact you are God who decides who goes to hell and who goes to the kingdom of heaven with you, I would be pleased to read it. But you won't do that will you Keng.

I as just re-reading this Cap. I didn't notice it the first time. I am one of those people that feels if we can learn from past mistakes to be better for it, then its all good. I appreciate your saying that but it embarasses me. I would not expect it nor ask for it but its gracious of you to say that. I prefer to remeber not Mckenzie King or Immigration Minister Blair or the vicious anti-semites in Quebec at that time, but the brave Canadians who died fighting Hitler. When all is said and done as a Jew I am damn proud to be a Canadian for what brave Canadians did in WW2 and the fact my father was a proud Canadian in the air force and then army as were many Jews who always put Canada first and always will. I am also damn proud of the way Canada's peacekeeping forces under Lester Pearson acted in the Sinai and Golan and Israelis will always admire the genuine professionality and neutrality of the Canadian soldiers. Israelis and Palestinians and Muslims were treated exactly the same way by Canadian forces when they were in the Sinai and Golan. You will hear no one suggest otherwise or have anything negative to say about the Canadian Armed Forces when it served in the Middle East. The shit parts that happened to us or the Irish or Dhoukabors, or Ukrainians or Sieks or Chinese or Japanese, etc., is part of our past and present and what hopefully will make us better by learning from our mistakes and still needs to be learned as we still have a long way to go with the original Canadians who I would imagine think we are all equally as f..ng insane anyways. My ancestors could only dream of the freedom I simply take for granted in Canada. For that I am very grateful and I think a lot of that has to do with the British parliamentary system we inherited. It may have warts, and to be honest has not lived up to its capacity with our native peoples but it has enabled us to work on our warts without killing each other (appreciating for a second that can not be said for certain historic events with our native peoples) and I have no doubt it will prevail and take the hatred and turn into positive visions for the future. I just wanted to say that because I am proud to be Canadian.

JBG you specifically asked me for references as to McKenzie King-for his comments as to Jews being vermin and infectious and undesireable you need only to go to exerpts from his diaries. Here is an exerpt as to his activities at; http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/history.html and I quote to passages from the article; " A SUMMARY OF ANTI-SEMITISM by Alan Lazerte, B.A., LL.B I stand here as a Canadian today to ashamedly tell you that Canada is directly implicated in the deaths of thousands of Jews in the Holocaust; and I will prove that to you. Time marches on and so did Hitler. People were in the concentration camps; some had escaped; the word was out about what was going on; people couldn't believe it; the Jews themselves couldn't believe that humans could become such barbarians as what the escapees were reporting was being done in these camps. So what happened? Well if the free nations of the West had known that the Jewish people were marked for annihilation we would have intervened wouldn't we? Well then why are we not told in our history books about a convention that Roosevelt of the United States called in 1938 in Europe? All of the Western nations were invited. McKenzie King didn't want to send a Canadian delegation at all. His diaries reveal is rabid anti-Semitism. Actually Canada was finally intimidated into sending a delegation because it was said to him by his advisors: "Mr. Prime Minister, it wouldn't_t look very good for Canada if Canada and Fascist Italy were the only two nations not to go." So McKenzie King said to his bureaucrats: "All right we will attend, but don't make any promises or commitments. Don't say anything, just listen." Unfortunately for the Jewish people, and unfortunately for Canada, the head of Canada's Immigration Department for thirty-five years, (during the most important years from 1933 when Hitler rose to power through 1948 when the state of Israel was reborn), was also a rabid anti-Semitic Christian who went to church every Sunday. His name was Blair. He bragged that he consistently kept the Jews out of this country. " Here are my other sources you may find of interest and they socument what Dog and Cap stated and in fact show once again Keng is just shooting off at the mouth trying to rationalize himself: http://www.ceris.metropolis.net/oldvl/other/wayland1e.html http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/non2many.html http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/voyage.html http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=...uG&b=395017 http://www.utoronto.ca/mcis/antisemitism/Mulroney.htm (this is a speech from Brian Mulroney on antti-semitism discussing McKenzie-King's role) http://www.umanitoba.ca/outreach/cm/vol12/...turnedaway.html http://www.utoronto.ca/mcis/antisemitism/Mulroney.htm http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiho...n/chapter3.html (yes there are Christians who unlike Keng have a different take on the matter as you will see from the above web-site) I also thought I would include another Christian's comments you can find at ; http://www.metaball.ca/2007/ball_Feb-07/0207_06.html: "I've heard people say, "Well, what's so special about the Holocaust?" The Turks tried to get rid of the Armenians, the Hutus tried to get rid of the Tutsis. There've been lots of "holocausts!" Not true! The murder of six million Jews was the public policy of a Christian country called Germany. It was enshrined in the constitution of Germany's National Socialist government. And that same public policy was supported by most of the rest of Christendom, if not in writing at least with tacit approval even when we all knew what was happening to the Jews. The Holocaust happened because of 2,000 years of Christian persecution of the Jews. Hitler felt justified in what he did because he knew that no Christian nation would try to stop him, and he was right. That's what makes the Holocaust unique. No other "ethnic cleansing" was the public policy of a "civilized" Christian nation supported by the greater part of world-wide Christendom. There was only one Holocaust. So, this year, on January 27, we marked the 62nd anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, and we remember, not just the liberation of Auschwitz, but also the fact that Christians were its cause. We say to ourselves, "We cannot, we dare not forget Auschwitz, because we know that it could happen again. We Christians need to take responsibility for Auschwitz, and promise God that it will never happen again." If what I say about Christian responsibility for the Holocaust is true, then how can I remain a Christian? Easy answer! It's because I know that the cruel, unjust way in which Christians have treated the Jews over the millennia is not true Christianity. The Holocaust is not what Jesus taught. The Holocaust is not the love that Jesus commanded us to have for our neighbours. " I would imagine Keng would say this person is not a true Christian.

None. I am speaking figuratively. If I am not mistaken I did you grief once for the same thing I am probably exhibiting with Keng. Just trying to tell you I remember that! I must say though JBG dealing with this issue with certain posters is like lancing a boil on one's buttox. The more one tries to drain it the more it excudes its substance for the world to share. Its amazing how much pent up poison there is that flows. By the way my "not caring" anaology didn't mean to sound as depressing as it was. I was referring to a portion of today's generation that hasn't a clue about history and I doubt will never make an effort to find out preferring instead to be incited by the hatred of certain people and hate lines.

This post has turned into a classic example of how alleged criticism of Israeli policies are used to invert the holocaust and to suggest Israelis is evil for wanting to be nationally self-determined. With holocaust inversion the holocaust is used to try suggest JEWS collaborated with Nazis or that there was nothing particularly unique about the holocaust or in the case of Keng Jews use the holocaust to insult Christians! JBG asked me if I coud provide my list of sources. I would be pleased and have below and I encourage anyone to look at them and compare them to the earlier ones I listed. Go back and forth and compare that is all I ask. Lenni Brenner it should be noted is NOT an historian. He has been a life long Trotskyite and is self-educated and has made a career as a communist writing mostly anti-Zionist pieces. Born an orthodox Jew he was a communist by the age of 15 and like a few other people born Jewish but who renounced their ethnicity and faith and have made a life writing racist hate articles they are widely quoted by the Buffy’s of the world who do not understand who they are and what they stand for and who exploits them. He is a member of several anti-Zionist organizations who are quoted regularly on neo-Nazi web sites. The key with Brenner (who changed his name from Galser) is that he do not research history. What he in fact does is quote secondary sources. He take quotes from Ben Gurion, etc., removes them from the context from which they are actually used, and then claim they provide evidence of a Zionist Nazi conspiracy. He does something no historian would do-remove a document or quote from its original context, ignore the original context and create a new context. It is precisely why the mainstream academio community does not take him seriously-he violates the basic rule of history-he does not report what happened, he re-writes what happened. What makes this latest episode of Zionism and Jews arguement absurd is that we are to believe because Jews tried to negotiate with the Nazis to save Jews, this can be used as evidence to say Nazis supported Jews and had an alliance with them. Using this logic OScar Schindler is a Zionist, Raul Wallenberg is a Zionist and any Jewish representative desperately trying to save Jews from their death is a Zionist and all were good friends with the Nazis who Buffy quotes as being able to fly a black flag of Zionists in Germany as 6 million were exterminated. Its past the point of absurd. It is one thing to see it expressed by people like Keng who can’t even quote it write and restate it as Jews collaborating with the Gestapo-a political police force whose job it was to track down, torture and then send to their death anyone suspected of being a Jew, gypsy, communist, gay, etc.. Here are the web-sites JBG to counter this disingenuine attempt to invert the holocaust. What I find interesting JBG is that for someone like Keng who claims communists persecute his denomination he has no problems quoting communists who hate everything to do with his demnomination such as Brenner. I guess that is whay he refers to as "vigorous criticism". Israeli Holocaust-psychologist Nathan Durst has explained what Buffy is now doing as follows: "If the guilty person is bad, the Jewish victim becomes good. The moment it can be shown the latter is bad too, the ‘other'-that is, the European-is relieved of his guilt feelings. To claim that Israelis behave like Nazis reduces the sin of the grandparents. Then the children of the victims can no longer be the accusers. This equalizes everybody." 1 1 Manfred Gerstenfeld, interview with Nathan Durst, "Europe: From Guilt Feelings to Repackaging Anti-Semitism," in Europe's Crumbling Myths, 135 http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPag...d_Jews_as_Nazis http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPag...olocaust_Memory http://www.opiniojuris.org/posts/1176739868.shtml http://thestupidleft.blogspot.com/ http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw2003...al-analysis.htm http://databank.isranet.org/articles.asp?category=140 http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=...uG&b=395059 http://nymag.com/nymetro/arts/tv/reviews/3231/ http://www.paulbogdanor.com/antisemitism.html http://www.gilad.co.uk/html%20files/purim.html http://pnews.org/art/11art/1Restoration.shtml

I do genuinely apologize to you and JBG however for not being able to sound angry. Its not anger just passion. lol.