Canuckistani

Well, that's a good point. I used to be all for globalization, because I thought it would eliminate disparity across the world. But what I see now is the formation of a global elite, who have no sense of creating greater equality, along with a permanent underclass. I don't think that's any better than at least having some countries as models of increasing equality, the way we were.

So we're doomed to play race to the bottom?

Thanks, What a pain in the ass. I've figured out another way that doesn't require scrolling to find the original post.

You have something to back that up. Sounds like BS to me. I've never heard that about Iranians.

Figured you'd go there. Reagan made a deal for the hostages that seemed satisfactory to him - you really want to use that to stir up trouble in the region now? As for Hamas, Israel and US support for it bears no responsibility for problems in the region? The US can fund Israel to continue it's expansionist policies, and that's not a problem, but Iran funding the other side is?

That sounds like a good morally sensible reason for anyone outside of Iran to stop rattling their cage and doing even more harm wouldn't you think? Compared to the rest of the region, the Iranians seem like the most 'normal' bunch going.

How do I include a quote in a reply to another poster? IE that poster has a quote in their post. When I click on reply, that quote is obliterated, but often the posters reply doesn't make sense without the original quote. Thanks

And Iranians have not hurt Israel or the US. Just words. You want to play word games with them, you're just playing into their hands.

You seem to be throwing everything into the pot you can think of. My point is that China has hugely prospered as it became a manufacturing nation. Meanwhile the US has sunk massively into debt while its manufacturing base has become substantially reduced. The US middle class has had the shit kicked out of it. I see those as connected. The same trend is true in Canada. We've avoided it partly by being able to export our raw resources to Asia. That's a mugs game we won't be able to play for ever. Henry Ford realized that you have to pay your workers a decent salary if you want to sell your product to them. Modern capitalists have forgotten that lesson, or maybe they're just happy to create those consumers in other countries, who cares where they are. If we can find productive work for our citizens that allows them to pay for the good lifestyle to which we've become accustomed, it doesn't matter what that is. But I haven't seen anything to replace manufacturing. We're creating societies of 20% elites who are doing well, and 80% who are not. No way to run a country and have a peaceful society. That is why I asked the question - what do we do? So far all I've read is boilerplate about the new economy, without taking into account what's actually happening. I don't know, maybe it's from posters being too young to remember how it used to be.

I think his remarks have a domestic impact. He's not just doing it for international consumption. It's the George Bush game of creating an enemy where there isn't one. Works wonders, especially if the other side plays along. Iranians have no interest in war and would love to come out from under the mullahs. But if they perceive a threat to Iran, they will unite, even under the mullahs. It's why our bellicosity is self-defeating.

You really like to read things into posts, huh? I didn't mention neo-cons, but you implied I did. Now I'm making you a fan of Iran. How so?

Have it your way. The supreme leaders decide who to even run for election. Ahmadinejad was in conflict with them because he was more moderate than they are - it's unlikely that someone even more moderate than he is will replace him. He's just become a stalking horse.

You're kidding yourself if you think Ahmadinejad leaving will make the slightest bit of difference. In fact his political adversaries are even more radical than him. The mullah's run the country, not him. Let's say they install someone with less "fiery rhetoric" - will that be any better if the policies remain the same or harden up more? When will the West learn to ignore these idiots and play directly at the Iranian people, who have no used for the mullahs? Of course that would not suit Israel's interests, which is more than glad to have nuts like Ahmadinejad to use as a justification for it's own depredations.

wikkiWhatever the reasons for China's rise in manufacturing, it has greatly enriched the country, while the US has massive debts held by China. And it's disingenous to say it's only 12%, the point is that the US went on a massive borrowing spree. If they had not, they would have had to raise taxes or cut way back on expenditures, either way would have contributed to the middle class in the US getting hit far harder than they already have. Not sure of the relevance of your last sentence? If you feel sanguine about the prospects of the US with it's model of gutting the middle class and moving to a "new economy" I guess there's not much to discuss if you don't see any problems.

So we keep going down the road we have been? How's that working out for us (not just the 20%)? Seems to me China has become the powerhouse it has exactly because of old school manufacturing, while the US, the vaunted innovator of the new economy, has become China's biggest debtor nation. The sum does seem to zero. If the US had not borrowed so heavily outside it's borders, the realization would have sunk in a long time ago that their way isn't sustainable.

Seems so. It's a ridiculous concept to take the best and brightest from 3rd world countries, taking all the investment that country has in those people, and then pat ourselves on the back how we're helping them, yet that is exactly one of the arguments that's put forward in terms of high immigration to Canada. That's why if you say you are against immigration in the large numbers we have now, the race card is inevitably plaid - I've seen it on this forum, tho not this thread, thank God. It's apparently our duty as guilty white people to take in immigrants from non-white countries. In fact it's getting to the point that immigration to Canada is seen as a right, rather than a privilege.

As wages are being driven down, so are pension plan contributions. Fewer and fewer defined benefit plans. So I'm not sure accepting lower wages due to immigration is such a clever strategy for the workers. And, the wage depression happens because more people are competing for the same number of jobs - ie is somebody takes a job at a lower wage, somebody else is out of a job altogether. That drives up the draw on government in the form of EI and welfare, so the people working have to pay more taxes. Seems like a bad deal all around.

I'm sure for the same reason the govt allows temp workers to work at Tim Horton's and to pay temp workers 15% less than the prevailing wage. I guess we'll be the most productive country in the world soon, but with 3rd world wages.

So the fact that the Greek govt colluded with Goldman Sachs to hide Greek debt so they could be admitted to the EU is on the shoulders of the electorate who should have done their due diligence? http://www.iol.co.za/business/business-news/goldman-sachs-role-in-greece-a-real-scandal-1.1258930#.T94l2LVDPw8 http://www.thenation.com/article/its-greek-goldman-sachs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_immigration_to_Canada

There is nothing to show that it's immigration that has made us as happy as we are. (And we're not at the top of the list). 50% of Canadians think immigration levels are too high - so we might be even more contented with less immigration. Let's Canada's financials decline, and people might be much more in arms about our immigration levels. I think we've benefited from having people from all over the world some to settle here. It's expanded our horizons. But, we over did it, we brought in too many at one time. And continue to do so, despite no rational reason for it. Time to cut back, train Canadians for the jobs we need filled, and do a much better job matching immigrants to jobs before they ever come here.

Not sure how separate schools would further integration? Or excessive accommodation?

Absolutely right. The studies that have been done show GDP/capita for Canadians to be a wash - ie no net benefit or loss from immigration. But compare that to the stress on infrastructure and downward push on wages caused by immigrants - those are negative that impact Canadians. , Exactly We would have to bring in a million young immigrants a year to impact the demographic trend. And then, guess what, those immigrants also get old, so we would just be kicking that problem down the road a piece.

Here's a slur for ya - you're being an idiot.

It has no place on this forum - you should apologize.