A Hermit

I'm Gay?! Wow, won't my wife of 22 years be surprised to hear that!... Guess you haven't been reading my comments very closely Betsy. You've leapt to an unwarranted conclusion. But that's not surprising, your whole argument here is based on false assumptions. Again, it's not MY "subculture", and that association only exists because bigots like you keep pushing the same tired old lies. If you really think so then why do you single out the homosexual community (whatever that is)? If They're no more responsible than the rest of us why focus on gays? Why reinforce the false association?

Reminds of the Anti-semite who protests that "some of my best friends are Jewish" Look, there is no more reason for you to go prattling on about NAMBLA then there is for me to point out the Ku Klux Klan considers itself a Christian organization and demand that the local Mennonite church do more to disassociate themselves from the Klan. It's simply ludicrous to associate those two groups, but that's exactly what you are doing here. The problem with discussions like this is the not so subtle implication that gays are somehow more responsible for dealing with the problem than the rest of us. Why should that be? Why should EGALE be amy more responsible for deouncing NAMBLA than the Catholic Church is? I call it like I see it betsy, and this kind of false association is the product of bigotry, plain and simple. Get the beam out of your eye and take a good long look in the mirror.

So according to you my Grandfather's second marriage shouldn't count, even though it ended up lasting longer than his first? After all, he and his second wife already had families (all grown up and moved out, some with kids of their own) from their previous marriages (both were widowed), and never had any intention of having children. Why, I guess you're right! We should never allow public benefits to go to such selfish, selfish people with their disgusting personal special interest agendas...

Betsy, tell me why my uncle, who is gay, should be treated like a pedophile. You don't knw him, you've never met him, you've never spent time with him like I have (all my life, as a child, a teenager and an adult). I know him to be an honourable, decent and courageous man; an example I have tried to follow in many ways. But to you he's just a potential pedophile. This is what bigotry looks like. You create this false image of people, and in the process smear the innocent. What you do is no different from the kind of racial stereotyping we used to see (still see, in some cases). Associating NAMBLA with homosexuals in general is like associating all Christians with the KKK. It's dishonest, hypocritical and destructive.

Well, that tells us something about your opinions, doesn't it? You're prepared to go out in public smearing every homosexual with theis pedophilia charge, but you're not prepared to take the time to get the facts? And most children are abused within, not outside, the family and most of them are girls. Look it up, if you can spare a few moments for the truth...

Truth about "Tax Freedom Day" Also HERE "The institute is clearly trying to incite Canadians to anger, to encourage them to join with members of the financial elite in a kind of collective tax rage. With their taxes, Canadian citizens buy their most valued goods and services: high-quality public schools, world-class universities, excellent medical services, public parks and libraries, safe streets, and livable cities,'' concluded Brooks, a taxation specialist at Osgoode. "Even if it were useful to inform Canadians how many days they had to work in order to earn enough to pay their taxes, the information the Fraser Institute presents about the tax system is flawed, misleading, seriously distorts public knowledge, and hinders rational debate about the tax system.' And HERE Not only is the whole concept misleading but the Fraser Institute (a biased "think tank" funded by corporate-welfare) fakes the numbers. Pardon me for not being outraged about "Tax Freedom Day". It's a hoax.

More than a game for me too, Betsy. As a parent I take the issue very seriously, I assure you, and also as someone who has friends and relatives who are gay. You and the bigots you quote to back up your misperceptions would deny equal rights to some of the finest people I know on the basis of lies, distortions and guilt by false associations. This "gay=pedophile" argument is nothing but character assassination, and you're doing it to people you've never even met; people whomI know to be honourable, moral decent people. I take that very seriously.

Back it up? Here ya go Betsy: Freund et al., 1989 Jenny et al., 1994 Groth & Gary, 1982 Look `em up....

Most of the "research" quoted by anti-gay bigots comes from Paul Cameron, who was kicked out of the American Psychological Association 20 years ago for ethical violations, including falsifiying data and misrepresenting the work of other researchers. A full rebuttal of his lies can be found HERE

Wonderful, another internet thread loaded with people who think "government" "social democracy" and "socialist" are interchangeable terms.... Laissez faire economics ignore the fact that unregulated economies tend towards monopolization and a concentration of wealth which is ultimately every bit as stifling of economic activity as socialism. Market forces need to be subject to regulation by a democratic government, and some redistribution of wealth must occur or you end up with stagnation. Watch what happens to America under Bush. Marxists are fools because they think government is the answer to everything and the market is always evil; laissez faire libertarians are just as bad because they think government is always evil and the market will somehow miraculously look after everyone. Two sides of the same simplistic coin. Incidentally, the NDP government in Manitoba in the 1980's was balancing budgets while the Conservative federal government was running record deficits, so beware of those labels too.

That seems to be happening anyway, doesn't it? Besides, in spite of all those scary stories about Italy (when was their last election, by the way?) most countries with PR systems (and that's most democratic countries) don't have that kind of problem.

No, we protect minority rights from being undermined by the "tyranny of the majority". Aska Holocaust survivor or a veteran of the desegregation fight in the American South why that's important if you don't know already....everyone should have the same rights, regardless of their perceived membership in some minority group. And when it comes to elcting a government all citizens should have an equal vote; every vote should count the same. As for ridiculous results, what do you call it when a party dedicated to the breakup of the country gets three times as many seats as a national party that got more votes? That makes sense to you?!

I used to "marry" steel rafters to columns in my construction job. Was that wrong?

Hmmm, let's try a few variations on that theme.... "If the majority of Canadians are against inter-racial marriage it shouldn't happen anything else isn't a democracy." "If the majority of Alabamans are against desegregation it shouldn't happen anything else isn't a democracy." "If the majority of Germans are against Jews owning property it shouldn't happen anything else isn't a democracy." ..... Nope; can't say I like that line of reasoning at all...

You're missing the point I think. Real democracies ensure protection of minority rights, that's why you don't leave things like the rights of women or gays to simple majority rule. (Although on the two issues you cite it's pretty clear the majority of Canadians are opposed to overturning the current laws). But when it comes to electing our government we should all have an equal voice. Right now we don't. That doesn't just hurt Liberals in Alberta, by the way. The Conservatives have no MP's from Canada's three largest cities, in spite of winning 400,000 votes there. The current system creates all kinds of imbalances. from Fair Vote Canada Our voting system was fine for a homogenous nineteenth century state with two political parties. Things have changed a little in the past 140 years, time we caught up...A Green party supporter anywhere in the country should have the same voice as an Atlantic Liberal, shouldn't they?