YankAbroad

Population growth rates never stay constant. A country which is experiencing a 1% growth rate and ONLY as a result of immigration will age rapidly and the growth rate will collapse over time as people get older and fewer adults as a proportion of the population are of child-bearing age. Statistics Canada has highlighted the population trend of which I speak -- that's one reason why CIC are in such a flurry to get more immigrants. Ah, yes, the old "America hurts everyone else in order to keep growing" argument. Equally bogus. Ethopia is starving because starvation is the preferred form of warfare in Africa, not because there isn't enough food. America's farming techniques and energy production techniques has nothing to do with poverty in Venezuela or anywhere else in the southern hemisphere -- it's a combination of socialism and corruption which has produced that effect. If the southern hemisphere was to adopt pluralistic democracy, free markets, transparency, rule of law and stable capital markets, there's no reason that they couldn't greatly improve their lots in life as well.

Oh, get over yourself. So a high school girl who has given hundreds of blow jobs and been eaten out by her boyfriend is a virgin and never had sex? My old nuns at Catholic school would have taken a particular exception with that concept!

Actually, I never stated that there was "never any history between NAMBLA and IGLA." I did state that NAMBLA has no significant link to the "gay rights movement" (your words in quotes). IGLA is not a significant organization, and if you had any experience in the gay rights movement, you'd be keenly aware of this fact. Ah, you keep jumping back and forth here between IGLA and "the Gay Rights Movement." Which is it, specifically, that you're claiming -- that NAMBLA has past involvement with IGLA, or that NAMBLA has past involvement with "the Gay Rights Movement"? Oh yes, your "concern." I'm sure that your fleeing with your tail between your legs has nothing to do at ALL with the fact that: 1) You're not addressing the fact that your claim that gay rights groups are "lowering the age of consent" is a bald-faced lie; 2) You haven't yet mentioned a significant gay group or cited a significant gay group in your entire discussion of the "Gay Rights Movement." It's a bit like proving "all cars are unsafe" by citing the crash test ratings of Yugoslavian steam buggies built in 1918, but ignoring GM, Ford, Toyota, FIAT, Peugeot, Nissan, Honda, and even Studebaker and Deusenberg.

So basically, if a woman gives her husband a blow job, or a man fucks his wife up the ass, that's not sex either? Or if your teenage daughter goes out and gives 10 different blow jobs to 10 different boys, it's not sex because there's no chance whatsoever for her to become pregnant in such an unnatural use of her mouth which is "made for eating and breathing?" Pretty bizarre view, I have to say. There's not much of a difference between a guy's mouth or a gal's mouth on a man's dick -- other than the fact that most bisexual male friends of mine tell me that gay men give better head.

1% population growth isn't enough to keep the population growing. The net population ages, fewer people are employed, more are drawing social benefits, and eventually the population begins to decline. The present demographic trends, if they continue, will result in Canada's population falling to just under 15 million people by 2050.

What??? I second that "What???"

Two points: 1) You realize that your first sentence and second sentence contradict each other, don't you? 2) I was raped once as a child -- by a female teacher. There's nothing inherently less predatory about heterosexuals who prey on opposite sex children. If there's an age at which kids cannot make sexual decisions, you should set that age as the limit for all sexual activity, not just certain types.

I don't know anything about them. They don't appear to have been active for quite a number of years, judging from their web site. The article you're linking to is 12 years old and still discredits your core point that NAMBLA is an active and important part of the gay rights movement, since it argues decisively that it has no relevance whatsoever. I certainly wouldn't rely on a small group of "all volunteer activists" to prove a point about gay rights, when there are large multi-million-dollar-budget groups like HRC in Washington or Égale in Canada with hundreds of thousands of members. Of course, the reason you're avoiding them is because you're on a desperate search to prove a spurious and discredited hypothesis, rather than attempt to learn the facts of the situation.

She's not going to answer because once she does, her entire spurious argument falls even further to pieces. If she acknowledges that same-sex and opposite-sex ages of consent should be the same, she's acknowledging that gay groups didn't lobby to lower the age of consent -- they lobbied to bring the same-sex age of consent into alignment with the opposite-sex age of consent. If she argues they shouldn't be the same, she demonstrates the double-standard we know she has. However, if she ignores the question and continues to repeat the lie that gays want to eliminate age of consent legislation, she has a fighting chance of scoring some points. Well, until she posts articles from tiny gay organizations from 12 years ago which argue that NAMBLA isn't a gay group in order to "prove" that NAMBLA is a gay group.

Well at least this time you've FINALLY linked to a gay-themed web site. Not a major web site, not one run by a major group, but it's a slight improvement. And the article you posted argues that NAMBLA has no place in the gay rights movement -- which directly undermines your argument that it's central to the gay rights movement. Note this section: D'oh! Doesn't seem like NAMBLA has received any endorsement or co-operation even from this tiny GLAA group you're linking to in this twelve-year-old article. Try again.

Homosexuals aren't lobbying to lower the age of consent either -- a point you've ignored for the SIXTH time now. Repeating your lie over and over doesn't make it true, you know. In every case you've cited, the age of consent law was moved for gay sexual intercourse to the SAME place where it ALREADY WAS for straight sexual intercourse -- in other words, people didn't have to be older in order to legally have homosexual relations with others. The one case you cited about Sri Lanka lowering its opposite-sex age of consent had no gay involvement at all -- in fact, Sri Lanka is a very homophobic country where sexual relations with members of the same sex is punishable by prison time. Your argument that the "Gay Rights Movement" has anything to do with decisions in that country is dishonest in the extreme.

Except that the organization doesn't exist, except when right-wingers need a bogeyman to tie to "the gays." Notice how it's more or less disappeared as people have come to understand that gays aren't interested in raping their kids? Funny how that works. It's also funny how for such an allegedly big and powerful well funded group which is allegedly so central to the gay rights movement, they don't have an official web site, leadership, full time office, or anything else other than a couple dozen "members" (half under the employ of the FBI) and a "membership list" which often included the names of J Edgar Hoover's enemies in an effort to smear them. The whole thing is a smokescreen. Nobody but psychos (and right-wing extremists, but I repeat myself) supports the alleged aims of the group or believes that it has any significant following whatsoever. It's not that I've made up my mind, it's that you are Blanche, you are! Let's see. . . You've linked to WorldNet Daily -- a right-wing anti-gay site. Seems reasonable they'd smear gays. You've linked to FOX News -- a right-wing anti-gay site. Seems reasonable they'd smear gays. You've linked to "LifeSite" -- a religious right-wing anti-gay site. Seems reasonable they'd smear gays. Oh, and you've linked to an "art history club" web site as an authoritative source on this history of gay rights. What site will you link to next to support your view? Perhaps a web site for classic car enthusiasts?

No it doesn't, it happens as a result of poor planning and pollution. Ridiculous. New York hasn't used wood frame buildings in at least 100 years due to fire codes. I'm not convinced that the changes you're alleging are taking place. Especially given that Canada has 1/2 the population of tiny Great Britain, in an area 50% larger than the United States. Such "concerns" are alarmism which has no basis in observable reality -- certainly not to the degree that humanity should commit "noble suicide" (which is what a population decline would essentially amount to over time.

Most of the authors you claim are "prominent," I've never heard of. And I spend a great deal of time doing work in the "Gay Rights Movement" -- you know, the one for which you cannot name a single major group. Efforts to equate the IGLA's position that homosexual ages of consent should not be different from heterosexual ones with "lowering the age of consent" in general are highly misleading. Again, not surprising, though, since your position isn't to learn, explore or make a cogent argument -- it's to attempt to tar gay people as pedophiles who want to rape children. Pretty contemptible on your part, really. Incidentally, I doubt that the "art history" site you're linking to is an "official NAMBLA" site. Perhaps you should try linking from the web site of a relevant group -- you know, perhaps, oh, I dunno, an actual significant gay organization?

Well, if I, the son of a poor farm boy, could get work in China, Canada, Japan, and Britain, surely you could do the same. Oh, sure. It's just that I find the left to be as racist as the right, just in a different way. For instance, here in Britain, when I expressed an opinion which said I didn't want any religion -- especially fundamentalist Islam -- influencing public social policies, I was accused of being "islamophobic" by some odious Labour Party twat. What's worse is that he attributed a nasty racist position to me which I didn't have, and told me "I know that you really hate the 'towel heads' don't you? Fucking Yank." I would never use such despicable racist language, nor do I oppose religious government on racist or ethnocentric grounds -- I oppose them on principled secular grounds. It didn't stop Mr. Harmony and Multiculturalism from blood libel by attributing a despicable racist position to me, though. Interestingly too, he was very conversant in the use of racist slurs -- he accused a colleague of mine in Britain's Libertarian Alliance of "hating the 'pakis'" (a highly derogatory racist slur referring to people of Pakistani origin). He was extraordinarily conversant in, and willing to use, racist slurs in his supposed "defence" of the rights of ethnic and religious minorities -- suggesting to me that he's got some racism rattling around in that gas-filled skull of his. I guess my final point is that you'll never find that perfect place by moving. You'll find it by making it yourself in your own life, wherever you happen to be (or wherever happens to have the best opportunities for you). So go out and live it.

Again, what relevance does that have to the "Gay Rights Movement" (sic)? What did NAMBLA do that even has a relevant link to gay issues -- especially a link so important that it presumably overrides the importance of the Mattachine Society, Queer Nation, Daughters of Bilitis, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, Human Rights Campaign Fund, Égale, GLAD, GLAAD, ACT-UP, Body Positive, GMHC, NCLR, and a number of very large and important organizations which you didn't mention at all? Would it be because you don't know what any of those groups did, do, were, or are? Probably. You're trying to smear gays through association with an FBI front group, and you don't have the character to admit that simple fact. Some "expert reports" you have there. I could just as easily argue that you're affiliated with the National Socialist Party of Germany, and when you dispute it, link to their history and a couple of articles written by your political critics which claim your aims support Nazism, but I've got ethics. You should try finding those sometime, along with learning a thing or two about the history of gay rights beyond what your blinkered "sources" tell you.

Yep, I am writing to you.

It's interesting that people keep positing that we're doomed. They posited that we couldn't grow enough food to feed Europe and North America in the 1960s. They were wrong. Capitalism worked its magic and farms sextupled in productivity -- growing more food than the planet could possibly eat. They posited that we couldn't make New York City work with five million people. Capitalism innovated with high-density housing and sustainable urban environments. It now has 8 million and is working better than ever. They were wrong. Now they say we're doomed to extinction because fossil fuels are going to run out and they're the only source of energy we could ever, ever have available to us. Something tells me they're gonna be very, very wrong on this front as well.

Just as soon as you substantiate a legitimate knowledge of the gay rights movement by explaining the significance of the Mattachine Society, and why you elevate NAMBLA to a position of importance which is orders of magnitudes higher than that of the Mattachine Society. Why is the MS so irrelevant to your "history of the Gay Rights Movement" (sic) that it doesn't even warrant a mention (if you even know what it is), but NAMBLA gets page after page of commentary -- despite never having more than two dozen members?

Please note that you've still ignored the fact that NAMBLA has never had any role in gay rights, historically or previously, and you cannot name any truly influential organizations in gay rights -- historically or previously. Which bodes quite ill for the rest of your argument. It's a bit like trying to write the history of North America by focusing on the activities of the Berbers in Algeria. A real examination of the emergence of the gay rights movement would focus on organizations like the Daughters of Bilitis, the Mattachine Society, and later, groups like Queer Nation and ACT-UP (all four are defunct). Efforts to mention NAMBLA as "part of gay history" are simply an effort to defame through association, and are particularly odious in that they ignore the massively important groups to instead focus on an FBI front group which in its heyday had perhaps two dozen "members" (half of whom were undercover FBI agents).

You can repeat this lie over and over in the hope that it sticks and people make some affiliation between the two, but it's not ethical nor moral -- especially given that "NAMBLA" effectively doesn't exist and never did, except as a teeny tiny group originally started by a conservative US government agency to smear gays. As for the "Gay Rights Movement," your "reports" must not be very informative if you're capable of constantly erroneously citing a tiny and unrelated group like NAMBLA, but cannot name any major, well-funded and bona fide gay rights group in the USA or Canada. This wasn't directed at me, but if World Nut Daily and FAUX News are your sources for gay rights stories, it's no surprise that you cannot describe a single major gay rights group in Canada or the USA despite your "extensive knowledge." They aren't, since: 1) There's no "Gay and Lesbian Association"; 2) As has been pointed out to you at least twice now, and which you've ignored completely, they're not advocating lowering the age of consent, but bringing the age of consent for homosexual sex to the same level as the age of consent for heterosexual sex, which is typically lower.

So when can we count on Mark Steyn and other neo-conservatives supporting fast-tracked asylum for the most vulnerable victims of these fundamentalist regimes, such as Iranian gays and lesbians, and supporting a free and liberal society which repudiates fundamentalist oppressions simply by noting that every citizen receives equal rights and responsibilities under the law? Ooops, are those crickets I am hearing? The reality is, whenever warmongers "explain" to us who we're fighting, it's because who we're fighting isn't clear. It's not going to be breeding ourselves into poverty which will rescue western society from the threats of religious fundamentalism and associated terrorism -- it will be redoubling our commitment to the rule of law, the rights of the individual (i.e. no secret wiretaps of other citizens or putting the legal rights of permanent minorities up to popular votes), and REAL liberty, which is the right to be left to one's own devices in peace. So far, the neoconservatives haven't realized this -- which makes them the willing useful idiots who the jihadists require in order to maintain their own delusional God complex of "being important enough to the west to wage war against." Take away that delusion of grandeur, that "great struggle," and their entire thesis crumbles to fine dust.

Hehehehe

Ah, that's clearly the voice of someone who has had to deal with the "Citizenship and Immigration Canada" bureaucracy, which on one hand complains immigration levels are too low, but on the other hand has created an expensive and labyrinthine immigration process which nobody outside of the third world would bother dealing with -- and has recently INCREASED the paperwork and waiting periods for skilled citizens of western countries to "ensure they aren't treated better" than uneducated third world citizens with few useful skills. Oh, and before someone says it, yes, I know the US INS sucks rocks too.

You do realize that "NAMBLA" barely exists, and was most likely founded by the FBI under J. Edgar Hoover in order to humiliate gay political rivals by attempting to link them with child molestation, right? Right-wing extremist propoganda. Lithuania simply equalized the age of consent for gays to be the same as for straights, which was also 14. Are you arguing that the age of consent for gays should be different? Except that, as I proved in the SSM thread, there's no such thing as a "traditional definition of marriage."