E-u Break Up? Constitutional Disaster

[Craig Read]

The Socialist Paradise. Oh we how we love and admire you, let's see: The EU economy is shrinking, employment rate is only @ 62 % [vs. 75 % in USA], pensions scam, health care scam and corruption [try doing business in Belgium or France, bring your own grease], and now the Constitution.

Love your culture though [er sans Hitler, Napoleon, Stalin, 2 World Wars, Communism, the 30 years war and so on...]

The Constitution might stop the EU in its tracks - and it would be a damn good thing.

The draft text supported by France and Germany would allow EU decisions to be made by a simple majority of EU nations if they represent 60 percent of the EU's population of 450 million. The constitution must be approved unanimously by all 25 governments.

Backers of the proposed new voting system, led by Germany and France - - and we all know how moral and democratic they are -- say the changes will make the voting system simpler and more democratic. Sure it will. It also means that France and Germany will effectively control all EU legislation since together they represent 33 % of the EU's population.

Poland -- the biggest of the 10 newcomers -- along with Spain objected most vociferously to the proposed change. The Spanish and the Poles insist the new system would entrench the power of the four EU heavyweights -- Britain, France, Germany and Italy.

"If it's not possible to agree, we shall wait," Polish Foreign Minister Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz said Saturday morning. "We're talking about compromise or domination."

A French diplomat accused Poland of being "intransigent."

Germany, the bloc's biggest member, said the future of the EU was at stake. "This is not about national interests," Bela Anda, spokesman for German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, told reporters.

Let's hope the Poles and Spaniards fracture the EU beyond repair.

[Neal.F.]

I'll drink to that! Poland was the little country that brought down the evil empire. That nation has produced so many saviours when they were needed most... From Jagiello, who took the measure of the Teutonic knights at Grunwald and saved Eastern Europe from becoming German, to Jan Sobieski who saved Vienna from a massive Turkish onslaught, and thus Christian Europe from Muslim domination to Tadeusz Kosciuszko who led the insurgency against Russia, Prussia and Austria and though his democratic forces lost, he remained an inspriation that would help keep the Polish nation (though not the state) alive during the 123 year occupation., then there was Jozef Pilsudski, who fought off the Soviet Union in 1920, possibly saving Europe from communization. The Poles, unlike the French, stood up to the Nazis when they invaded, and finally produced men like John Paul II and Lech Walesa, who stood up to Soviet Russia.

This is NOT a country that will sign a document that will give GERMANY, of all countries yet another chance to rape them.

And Spain is about to regain major power status as it once agan becomes a proud nation. They are not about to take marching orders from Paris or Berlin either.

[SirRiff]

yeah its not like other great federations had problems...

take america, its not like it ever had a bloody civil war...wait...it did....hmm..it seems to have survived...

i got pity for this thread

[Goldie]

Wow, SirRiff said America is a great federation.

Yes it is. It has seen too much war for any one nation and nobody knows that more than Americans themselves.

They hate war so much they are willing to die in it to bring about peace in the world. They are rapidily learning how to bring regimes to submission before they present a global threat, a lesson not yet learned by most of Europe and Canada.

[SirRiff]

my perspective was its historical survival, some 225 years or something with the same constitution.

not to mention canada spent decades haggling over its constitutional ammendment formula and personal rights.

so its rather stupid to conclude the EU, facing nothing like the US or Canada faced, is somehow doomed because of 1 failed summit.

canada has had too many failed summits to count and we came out smelling like roses today.

[Neal.F.]

The EU is not a country, nor , does it appear they ever will be.

The newly and fast emerging power in the new Europe, Poland will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER sign anything that will give Germany control over even one grain of Polish sand, let alone over the destiny of one single Polish citizen. Too many wars have been fought over 600 years, eqch time Germany was the Agressor, and each time with varying degrees of ruthlessness, the Germans sought to wipe out the Polish People in their quest fortheir "destiny" as rulers over eastern Europe. In the last war, Germany slaugherted 12 million catholic Poles, not counting the 3.5 million jewish Poles, out of a total pre-war population of 30 Million plus.

And why sould poland want to listen to anything France has to say? They refused to honour their mutual defense treaty with Poland in '39 when the Nazi tanks rolled over the border. They similarly abandoned Czechoslovakia as well. There's another country that will not welcome German/French machinations.

There are also many Spaniards living today who have living memories of the Franco regime, and tie it in to Nazi Germany. Spain is also becoming a fats growing economy, and a nation enjouying clout on the international stage again, and they have no interst in relinquishing that to traditional enemy France, and the likes of Gerhard Schroeder and Joschka Fischer.

And Italy is finally coalescing into a serious power as well, under the conservative Berlusconi, whose governmment has lasted longe than any since the end of WWII.

I would like to see the EU dissolved. Anything that helps prop up parasitical socilaist cesspoools like France and Germany should not exist. Let those two OLD EUROPEAN countries face reality.

[Craig Read]

Neal, good points. The New Europe [have to love Rummy for stating that] should never allow itself to be subsumed by the Franco-German parasitic socialist state - fully of arrogance, corruption, greed and hypocrisy.

Poland and Spain have the potential to be adult nations.

The EU was formed to tie down Germany and share communely, resources that can be used to wage war - iron, coal, steel and oil. Very quickly after economic integration occured amongst the original 6 nations, the French began agitating for political union - headed of course by France, buttressed by the economic strength of Germany.

From about 1957 when the EU officially started as the EC [Treaty of Rome] until about 1975, it enjoyed fast economic growth, and rapidly gained international respectability. During the 80s and 90s however, growth has sputtered, politics have trumped economic integration and the myriad pronouncements from Brussels on everything from the size of Swedish strawberries to the ingredients in margarine, perplex and annoy the average citizen.

The EU has strayed from its original intention. Its political-technocratic elite want a counterpoise to the US. Without significant reform it won't happen. In any event Europeans are regionalists and nationalists first, not Europeans.

You can't force them to become Europeans through an insipid Constitution written by the French for their own benefit which enshrines as human rights, a whole slew of social and economic policies such as a 'right to education', ' a right to a job' and 'a right to a standard of living.'

This is idiotic and should be swept away by the Poles, Brits and Spaniards.

I hope Europe fractures and the tide of post modern nonsense receded and leaves the ugly naked spectacle of franco-german hegemonic aspirations visible for all to see.

[Neal.F.]

Speaking of post-modern nonsense, our wonderful, new "conservative" Prime Minister has just said that Saddam Hussein should be tried in an international war crimes court.

No way.

This guy should be tried either (in order of preference) by AN IRAQI tribunal which has already been set up for this, or by the countries who actually participated in his ouster and capture, should the former not be possible. To put im in front of the Franco-Prussian sock puppets in the Hague would be a miscarriage of justice.

May the EU splinter, and let adult nations deal adults.

[Craig Read]

Neal, I agree with you. The left wing cowardly nations that did not have the moral or military courage to participate are dishonest, naive, corrupt and inimical to their own better interests. This is the philosophy that undergirds a failing Europe. Frankly the sooner the EU collapses the better.

As for Hussein, let the Iraqi's try Hussein, then slowly kill him. Make it painful, make it long, make it memorable.

Jean Martin, is picking up where Paul Chretien left off - boneheaded, babbling support for post modern internationalism. Good way to annoy the US. Well done Jean Martin.

Maybe Hussein can be flown to the Hague and we can have a race off between Hussein and Milosovic for longest trial processes in history ?