Us Punishes The Socialists

[Craig Read]

Canada sits on the sidelines, throws a few token troops to herd the goats in Kabul and a few million at Iraqi reconstruction and now pouts it wants contracts !

Ah poor little dear. Boo hoo hoo. This is the payback for France and Canada who immorally opposed the war and now - hypocritically - want to make MONEY from it !!!

Good one - nice consistency in Cdn foreign policy.

There are 2 aspects to the US decision to exclude the socialist countries from Iraqi reconstruction:

1. It is a bargaining position designed to force France and Russia to forgive Iraqi debt obligations in return for contracts.

2. Subcontracts - which encompass the majority of reconstruction efforts - are still open to socialist nations to bid on [with some constraints]. Only 25-30 Major contracts are closed to the EU ninnies and Canada. The rest are 'open' at least in theory. Again this is a bargaining position - give the US more $ and troops - and you get more contract opps.

I like it.

The U.S. and real allies, sans les Canadiens, have spent blood and treasure to liberate Iraq and will spend a lot more to put Iraq back on its feet economically and politically. $18.6 billion was pledged by the U.S. -- this amount has nothing to do with money offered by the World Bank, IMF or the Useless N.O. US taxpayers have an interest in seeing it spent on those countries that were there when the U.S. needed them.

This is in recognition of those nations that -- some at great political risk -- made the sacrifice. Britain and Poland sent fighting troops, for example, and Italy, Spain and others have provided security forces. They've all taken casualties.

Canada, Germany and France not only opposed the war but actually tried to obstruct the waging of it. The EU - that great bastion of morality - did not pledge any money at the donors' conference in Madrid this fall. And they, along with Russia, have not sent any troops to postwar Iraq. Worse, the EU, which took what they implied was the high moral ground against the war, are now complaining that they cannot make private profit from its aftermath. It's not a pretty sight.

Maybe Canada and the EU can grow up and get busy with helping out.

[KrustyKidd]

It's leftie logic at work. I vigorously oppose a Wal Mart being built in my town then when it's up demand a job.

These rats should go ask fellow rat Saddam for a job.

[Craig Read]

American taxpayers should not fund countries that were against the war, and especially France-Germany and Russia which made money duirng the embargo program as thousands of Iraqi's starved to death or were murdered. Nescient, hypocritical and condemnatory were the actions of the EU and Russia during the 1990s and during Gulf War II. They did everything in their power to perpetuate a brutal regime while they and the UNO make profit.

It makes internationalism a laughingstock.

[RB]

c'mon now motives always have some higher aim and are not always senseless

- you free a land

now you can give the peple samples of what they are missing, mcdonalds probably rule the land now... a success, how about more contracts for us of course because we have to congratulate ourselves, well maybe just 25-30 opportunities to others

- and i didn't mention oil

- much later how about owership of the economy next

this is all about power and control hope you know that also

[Craig Read]

Many threads cover the reasons for the war - they stem largely from security and military concerns - and i have posted numerous sources on the oil issue - it is a red herring.

Oil will never cover the costs of reconstruction. Oil revenues won't even cover Iraq's debt for the next 5 years.

This war was waged to uphold 14 UN Resolutions and end 12 years of expensive [paid by the UK and US] and fruitless [hello the French made good $ of this] sanctions.

It was a reply to 9-11 - preemption is the only valid security strategy we have.

When you win a war , you and your allies share the spoils.

Give me one example in world history where the lovely French, the honest Germans, the moral Russians and the winsome Chinese won wars and handed over to groups that opposed the war, their just spoils and rewards ?

I thought so.

[SirRiff]

the war was a power grab plain and simple. excluding other nations is more to prevent influence in shaping teh political policy rather then just money.

the oil reserves are massive and will flow for decades.

precedent for this sort of action can be found in Iran 1953, when american and british intelligence assisted with an illegal coup to secure greater oil interests in iran. declassified documents at the time spell it out.

so its obvious this is for long term oil interests out of some neo-con policy to increase american power at any expense.

wmds are obviously a farse, as are concerns about human rights since the US has supported every major dictator of the last 50 years for its own interest.

after it drives away the last of its allies it will find itself very alone in the world. america needs allies because its a very tough world as 9-11 showed, especially over seas.

americans will feel as safe as israelis walking around. and no amount of $$ can buy back your peace of mind.

[Derek]

the war was a power grab plain and simple. excluding other nations is more to prevent influence in shaping teh political policy rather then just money.

the oil reserves are massive and will flow for decades.

precedent for this sort of action can be found in Iran 1953, when american and british intelligence assisted with an illegal coup to secure greater oil interests in iran. declassified documents at the time spell it out.

so its obvious this is for long term oil interests out of some neo-con policy to increase american power at any expense.

wmds are obviously a farse, as are concerns about human rights since the US has supported every major dictator of the last 50 years for its own interest.

after it drives away the last of its allies it will find itself very alone in the world. america needs allies because its a very tough world as 9-11 showed, especially over seas.

americans will feel as safe as israelis walking around. and no amount of $$ can buy back your peace of mind.

Please Sirriff We have heard enough of this leftwing conspiracy theory crap you have thrown at us. Simply put: Its just not true.

Though you might think it, bush is not a gunslinging Ki yi yay! Cowboy that is only concerned with oil and money.

You don't give bush any credit for anything he has done to make the world a better place. It just must all be for oil.

It will be fun to see what you do when we do find the Wmds.

[Aidan Pryde]

Well America showed it's true colours pretty quickly, it's pretty obvious they care nothing for the Iraqi people but are just gunning to turn Iraq into a puppet of American economic power.

[SirRiff]

It will be fun to see what you do when we do find the Wmds.

i think you mean when they put some WMDs there...

after all, with all thier specific and credible intelligence, you would think something would have been found.

and of course the US army has already reassigned large parts of the WMD team because they have checked all thier sites and found nothing.

i'm sure saddam has some nasty chemicals somewhere, just like the auto plant outside the city limits here. big deal. bleach and ammonia dont count.

first they implied he was linked to 9-11. then they said he has huge stockpiles of WMD and they knew all abou them and they could be launched any minute. now its about how bad he was, of course, he wasnt bad enough to stop supporting, or stop selling equipment to, or stop giving weapons too, no not THAT bad.

seriously, its a pathetic argument, made by dangerous people for dangerous reasons.

[Morgan]

Sir Riff,

Please cite documented support for the following opinions or retract them. Thank you. a)

i think you mean when they put some WMDs there...

Please tell me what previous court judgments against the current US authorities/US Admin.you have read regarding their "planting" of evidence.

first they implied he was linked to 9-11. then they said he has huge stockpiles of WMD and they knew all abou them and they could be launched any minute. now its about how bad he was, of course, he wasnt bad enough to stop supporting, or stop selling equipment to, or stop giving weapons too, no not THAT bad.

-What evidence do you have that the US government supported Saddam after sanctions were implemented?

-What evidence do you have that the US gov't "gave" Saddam weapons and "sold" him equipment after the sanctions were implemented?

-what evidence do you have that the US gov't "implied" that Saddam was associated with 9/11? In another discussion thread you said that US gov't have denied Saddam's involvement in 9/11. I'm puzzled by your contradictory statements.

c)

seriously, its a pathetic argument, made by dangerous people for dangerous reasons.

Specify who are "they" and document your reasons for referring to them as "dangerous people/for dangerous reasons."

Senator Leo Kolber said in his new book that anti-American rants are a form of racism. I agree and am offended by your continued and unsupported denigration of Americans. Put up or retract.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

-

[Craig Read]

Morgan, thanks for calling out Riff's Raff. Very tiresome is good old Riff. I think Riff should go work at the CBC - maybe write some editorial content. He can then proceed as well to write some anti-historical documentaries - we can start with Iraq. Riff can write that it was not France and Russia that supplied 80 % of Iraq's arms in the 80s and 90s and that it was not France and Russia that made billions illegally off of the oil for food program while Iraqi's were starved and murdered - it was of course the US. He can also write that Iraq was better off under Uncle Saddam - a nice man that everyone loved who only wanted to play with toy trains and be left alone.

Riff can also rewrite the history of WW 2. Churchill and FDR were the real war criminals. The bombing of German cities was illegal. The invasion of France was not sanctioned by an international body. Thousands of dead soldiers was too high a price to pay to liberate Europe. Freedom is after all only a relative concept. Stalin was misunderstood. Communism was a worthy goal and the holocaust overblown.

Welcome to Riff's world.

Nothing matters but hating the US, hating freedom and apologising for despots, which apparently is what makes 'da Canadian values' so critical for small minded nationalists here.