Canadians Immigration Policy

[jdobbin]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...07?hub=Politics

The United States' struggles with developing an immigration policy are providing job opportunities in this country.

Earlier this week, Microsoft announced the opening of a software development centre in Vancouver after losing a fight to ease restrictions on the admission of foreign workers to the United States.

"Unfortunately, our immigration policies are driving away the world's best and brightest, precisely when we need them most," Microsoft chairman Bill Gates said in March.

U.S. companies are desperate to hire more computer engineers from India and China.

I'm sure there are other engineering and research companies that can be attracted over the next years by promoting Canadian immigration's unlimited skills category.

These are precisely the type of jobs we need to attract.

[mikedavid00]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...07?hub=Politics

The United States' struggles with developing an immigration policy are providing job opportunities in this country.

Earlier this week, Microsoft announced the opening of a software development centre in Vancouver after losing a fight to ease restrictions on the admission of foreign workers to the United States.

"Unfortunately, our immigration policies are driving away the world's best and brightest, precisely when we need them most," Microsoft chairman Bill Gates said in March.

U.S. companies are desperate to hire more computer engineers from India and China.

I'm sure there are other engineering and research companies that can be attracted over the next years by promoting Canadian immigration's unlimited skills category.

These are precisely the type of jobs we need to attract.

Lol you're out of your mind.

Firstly, I used to work for Microsoft here in Mississauga. The problem with Microsoft is that their head office in the middle of no where in Washington. There is nothing to do there.

Ok. suppose someone asks you to move to North Bay Ontario to work. Would you do it? Probably not. The US has lots of jobs yes. But what people don't like to talk about is that there is a catch to these jobs - you have to relocate. Go to the Bay area or Manhattan and you will people from all over the US trying to land these jobs so they can live in their dream cities.

We had an opening for our lead team in Issaquah washington. None of our team members applied becuase our lives were here and no one wanted to move to Issaquah. You are in the middle of a forest out there and there is nothing to do. They put up condo's with nothing but Microsoft employees. Goto a resturaunt and you will find over half of everyone there a microsoft employee. It's a weird place and it's not cut out for most people. People usually have to travel up to Vancover to get a taste of shopping and city life.

So what happened is Microsoft had to hire someone from the India team and fill that position. The job was posted in the US for 2 months before they finally chose a bidder from India. Now his dreams are coming true. What MS wants to do is bring people in more easily than the current rules allow.

And the Vancouver office is a joke that's going to be hiring 200 people. Wow! that's goign to solve our problems! And the people microsoft brings in ARE the best. They are not losers filling out applications with paper degree's claiming their software developers. They have a lot from China. Their English is always exceptional and these people are very gifted. A stark contrast from what there is here in Canada.

[Xman]

Like I said.

[geoffrey]

And the people microsoft brings in ARE the best. They are not losers filling out applications with paper degree's claiming their software developers. They have a lot from China. Their English is always exceptional and these people are very gifted. A stark contrast from what there is here in Canada.

Who's fault is that? Are we all responsible for Canadians not willing to upgrade their skills to compete with exceptional foreign workers? I'll take the more qualified guy (or gal) anyday, regardless of where he (or she) is from (English proficiency of course is key).

[mikedavid00]

And the people microsoft brings in ARE the best. They are not losers filling out applications with paper degree's claiming their software developers. They have a lot from China. Their English is always exceptional and these people are very gifted. A stark contrast from what there is here in Canada.

Who's fault is that? Are we all responsible for Canadians not willing to upgrade their skills to compete with exceptional foreign workers? I'll take the more qualified guy (or gal) anyday, regardless of where he (or she) is from (English proficiency of course is key).

Ok. Serioulsy. It's rare with my experience that you will hear me prop up immigrants from the third world. They had many Vietnamese (for some reason), Chinese, and some spanish. Rarely Indians on the US campuses despite what you may here. Very few muslims. Maybe I've come accross 1 ever. The overwhellment majority are white (i'd say +90%).

But the immigrants they did have. I can honestly say that they were the best. The english our of these asians were amazing considerening they did their schooling in China. Their vocabulary and english were excellent. They sometmies made me feel small. I'm just being honest.

However, again, this is a VERY stark contrast from the people I have worked with here. People here only speak the English language at all when at work. All personal calls were in other languages. They would seriously struggle to do the most basic of reading and writing. Their comprehension was not at a grade 6 level when discussing a problem or situation.

If Microsoft comes here and thinks they will be getting the quality of people that were able to be sponsored in, they are in a dream land. There's NO chance they will get these quality of employees. In Canada you will get people with pieces of paper saying they have an education and yet do not have basic english comprehension which is the pillar of workplace succsess.

[Bonam]

That's what an interview is for? There are exceptional people, both native-born and immigrant, in both Canada and the US. Microsoft, and any other corporation, can pick from among them. If they decide to hire people with severe English defficiency, it will be their own choice.

[Argus]

Okay, let's get real here. The exceptional part of foreign immigrants that Bill Gates and other software CEOs like is "Exceptionally cheap". Oddly, Canadian software engineers expect their renumeration to be commensurate with their qualifications. Shockingly unfair, I know, when you can get a brilliant software engineer from India for twenty or thirty thousand.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Argus

[mikedavid00]

That's what an interview is for? There are exceptional people, both native-born and immigrant, in both Canada and the US. Microsoft, and any other corporation, can pick from among them. If they decide to hire people with severe English defficiency, it will be their own choice.

Idioligy, not reality. Most people are not talented at what they do - this includes HR people. THey hire who they feel have the best paper credentials. In Canada, this is a BIG mistake becuase our immigation system is such a joke that basically anyone off the street can get in. However, each country has its own immigration testing. MS wants the testing to be easier so they can bring more people in faster. But they don't realize the reason why they get such good people is becuase of the US's tough testing.

Microsoft is really here to save money. That's all. Everyone knows that's the real reason. They're opening a measly 200 jobs. Big deal. They don't have to pay healtchare insurance and can get away with lower wages becuase of our over supply of IT workers. Americans just aren't interested in working at Fargo, or Issagua. Would you like to live in Fargo?

The immigration argument is just political football from Microsoft. They have their

own immigration lawyers onsite to help with the applications. Bringing people over cost them a lot of money and is not very timely despite all the strings they can pull. So they want a faster, easier process.

[Riverwind]

THey hire who they feel have the best paper credentials. In Canada, this is a BIG mistake becuase our immigation system is such a joke that basically anyone off the street can get in.

I take you you have never been involved in hiring decision. Most immigrants to Canada complain because Canadians don't accept their paper qualification and insist on 'Canadian' experience.

The US system does not have any better testing of immigrants - what they do is require companies to put a lot of effort into supporting a visa application. This gives the US companies an incentive to make sure that they find the best candidates first. If you can't find a job in the US that probably says more about your skills and qualifications than the US immigration system.

Americans just aren't interested in working at Fargo, or Issagua. Would you like to live in Fargo?

Have you ever been to Redmond? Seattle-Tacoma is almost as big as the GTA - Redmond is like Mississauga which means it is hardly a backwater.

Incidently, why wouldn't you want to work in Fargo? It is the US after all and you do hate Canada. Fargo should be a huge improvement from your perspective.

Edited July 12, 2007 by Riverwind

[jdobbin]

Incidently, why wouldn't you want to work in Fargo? It is the US after all and you do hate Canada. Fargo should be a huge improvement from your perspective.

Microsoft opened a fair size operation in Fargo. I have been numerous times to the city. I believe it is rated as one of the best cities in the U.S. to do business in. It is affordable, has clear air, low crime, some good universities, low unemployment and they love hockey.

For a Canadian who hates Canada, Fargo would be a perfect city.

[mikedavid00]

I take you you have never been involved in hiring decision.

Yes I have several times.

Most immigrants to Canada complain because Canadians don't accept their paper qualification and insist on 'Canadian' experience.

This is becuase their credentials don't hold value here. Not becuase we distrust the paper, but becuase over a quick amount of time employers have learned that immigrant employees in general are usually not good value to the company and sometimes even have an opposite effect - ie: 2 Canadian software developers can develop a solution faster than if there was 2 Canadian developers and 1 immigrant developer on the same team. Their paper just isn't quality education. You can easily find this when asking questions in an interview. How can you claim to have been trained with all these networking credentials and not know what an ARP table is? This is what filters them out. So Canadians have become un-interested in their paper from back home.

Ok. Get an accountant from India. Put him in a meeting and and discuss how they are going to account for the stickers that are put on products meant for a store shelf. Start the talk of general ledgers and payables etc and they will be lost and un helpful becuase back home they haven't gown up in our complex societies. They come from the sand and all they know is how to memorize questions/answers for tests back home. They don't really comprehend our complex first world societal functions or speak english to even begin to comprehend. The increasing problem is that they choose still not to integrate and learn how our economy works. Culture reigns #1 in their eyes. They come from culture based societies, we come from economy based societies.

And also, North Americans work much harder than just about anyone else in the world. Some authors have said this was the real reason to our success. The third world is typically very laid back, more involved with family functions and relaxation, and in my experience, they miss many more days of work then other employees.

The US system does not have any better testing of immigrants

That is false.

- what they do is require companies to put a lot of effort into supporting a visa application. This gives the US companies an incentive to make sure that they find the best candidates first.

You just proved why this is false. Don't you see how work permits really work?

What's also funny is that Canada already HAS a work permit program. We simply don't use it. If we did, there would be no labor shortages in Calgary right now.

If you can't find a job in the US that probably says more about your skills and qualifications than the US immigration system.

That's not true. Go study the H1B program. You first have to meet gov't qualifications, THEN the companies.

Incidently, why wouldn't you want to work in Fargo? It is the US after all and you do hate Canada. Fargo should be a huge improvement from your perspective.

I meant that Americans don't want to move there. And people under 30 who are single in Toronto shurely dind't want to live there.

There is nothing to do there. Nothing. If you want cable internet, you might not get it. If you want to buy something simple like.. i dunno.. a pair of Guess jeans, you might not be able to get it. You have to take up natural things like fishing, hunting, bbq'ing etc. Many of the houses probably aren't on a sewage system, albiet huge houses.

So companies in Fargo or Issaque, or Corpus Christie, who need employees simply cannot hire an American becuase these kids didn't go to school to move to these places. What they will do is simply hire someone on a work permit. However, you first have to meet H1B requirements. This automatically filters me out despite the company wanting me.

In Canada we have 800,000 people waiting to come to Canada who have already been accepted (gag!).

Wouldn't it make sense to bring these people in on our work permits from companies in areas who need them like Calgary?

Instead, poeple are coming for family re-unification and just 'wandering in' to Toronto and doing nothing for our country but slowely killing our welfare state and healthcare system.

Now who here can REASONABLY be apposed to changing our system to a work permit only system?

(i'm sober tonight)

[mikedavid00]

brilliant software engineer from India for twenty or thirty thousand

I've been around countless developers. I have never met a brilliant developer from India. Anywhere else yes, not India. I feel they are very poor developers actually. Chinese also fairly poor developers.

Arabs are good actually. Russians are VERY good. Germans are very good. French are good too. India I would place at the bottom easily. Spanish middle ground.

The absolute best developers in the world are Brits, Canadians (second gen and up), and Americans. I say that without a doubt seeing as I've had to work with so many people from all cultures for so many years.

[mikedavid00]

For a Canadian who hates Canada, Fargo would be a perfect city.

Yes now that I'm older I would probably go if a geenie could grant my wish and I could move my life there to work and then retire. It would be like a dream come true.

But that's just a dream. Their system is designed to keep people like me out. They only want the best of the best in the world. I'm definately not that.

[guyser]

There is nothing to do there. Nothing. If you want cable internet, you might not get it. If you want to buy something simple like.. i dunno.. a pair of Guess jeans, you might not be able to get it. You have to take up natural things like fishing, hunting, bbq'ing etc. Many of the houses probably aren't on a sewage system, albiet huge houses.

This from the guy that says he researches everything. Lacking in sewage , lacking in internet.

Actually , as you can see from the linked photos, those really ARE strings between the businesses and houses with cans on each end. Thats the phone system. As for sewage , they just crap in the street. I am thinking they might have a general store with sawdust on the floor and blocks of ice keeping things relatively cool.

Oh my.....out researched again.

http://www.cityoffargo.com/CityInfo/Photos/

[mikedavid00]

Oh my.....out researched again.

http://www.cityoffargo.com/CityInfo/Photos/

You gotta love the US:

Property Tax Exemptions

There are several property tax exemptions that may be available for qualifying residential properties. Some of these are relief for disabled or elderly individuals on fixed incomes. Others are for incentives to construct or preserve residential homes. Details on available exemptions are linked at left.

Residential New Construction Exemption

Newly constructed single family, duplex, townhome, or condominium properties may be eligible for an exemption on part of their valuation for up to two taxable years following the taxable year that construction began. The taxable year is from February 1 to January 31.

Remodeling Exemption

Residential properties at least 25 years old are eligible for an exemption for up to five years of any value added due to certain remodeling projects.

----

This my friend, is called growth, prosperity, and fucntioning, healthy population and gov't.

Edited July 17, 2007 by mikedavid00

[guyser]

This my friend, is called growth, prosperity, and fucntioning, healthy population and gov't.

And that my friend is the same in Ontario . Prop Tax exemptions for seniors and disabled.

Wonderful province and country we live in don't you think?