National Day of Terrorism?

[geoffrey]

I really feel for you guys in Ontario, I really do. McGuinty has, by pretending his hands are tied, given the Indians there the ability to break the law at will, fearing nothing.

Now we have Brant planning an armed blockade of highways and rail lines, and saying he'll kill any cop that tries to stop him.

How did it come to this? How in a G8 nation do we have a terrorist allowed to break the law at will, have his own militia, and have zero fear of the authorities?

He (and all members of his little possie) should have been put in jail years ago. This kind of behavoir cannot be tolerated in Canada. We have the rule of law, and it applies to everyone. Completely unacceptable.

So what will happen tomorrow? Will McGuinty continue to tell the OPP to not uphold the law? Will the Feds call in the army to win over the votes of the majority of Ontarians that are quite sick of the lawlessness? Or will private citizens defend their rights and take matters into their own hands?

Scary times out there guys. Scary times.

Globe and Mail article to read:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

[capricorn]

Some groups disregard the laws of this country for one simple reason. Because they can get away with it. It is doubly upsetting when the law is broken with the specific intent to inconvenience Canadians going about their business. Their beef is with the government but they take it out on other Canadians who are really powerless in settling their grievances. How will this gain First Nations any sympathy for their cause?

Via Rail has canceled trains traveling the Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto corridor. Why? Natives have said they would not interfere with this service. On the Canada Day long weekend no less. Does Via know something we don't? It's all so incomprehensible.

Canadians are well aware that year after year billions of taxpayers' money is being poured into initiatives to settle land claims and to improve the quality of life of Natives, on and off reserves. Canadians are also aware that some unscrupulous Band Councils have been using these funds to enrich their own comfort level. Why are Native groups seemingly not addressing their own internal problems?

And they want self government?

[Chuck U. Farlie]

I had no plans to travel Eastward this weekend, but I can understand how it must feel for the thousands of people who would like to visit family or friends and cannot due to these massive blockades of major roads and rails.

What can we as the general voting public do?

How can we let the politicians know that we will not stand for the tolerance of this lawlessness?

All of these native protesters should be rounded up off of the highway or rail lines and imprisoned, if they resist they should still be taken as resisting prisoners, if there is violence towards the police then the police should be allowed to use all means to quell the violence.

It irks me to know that they are getting away with this, but what can I do? Will a letter help? Will a telephone call do anything?

If they want to protest, go ahead and do it outside of the government buildings... they are definitely not helping their cause with the general public by pulling stunts like this.

[BC_chick]

How did it come to this? How in a G8 nation do we have a terrorist allowed to break the law at will, have his own militia, and have zero fear of the authorities?

How is he a terrorist?

[guyser]

Highway 401 is already open and the rail lines cleared as of 9:30 this morning , according to the radio. So nothing much happened but they did get their point across.

Its the Feds fault. They need to get their butt in gear and resolve this.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

How did it come to this? How in a G8 nation do we have a terrorist allowed to break the law at will, have his own militia, and have zero fear of the authorities?

How is he a terrorist?

I think he can be compared to a terrorist because Brant said they have weapons and are prepared to use them... therefore inciting terror in the citizens who may be confronted by these protesters, as well as with the police who may have to face an armed conflict.

[BornAlbertan]

How did it come to this? How in a G8 nation do we have a terrorist allowed to break the law at will, have his own militia, and have zero fear of the authorities?

How is he a terrorist?

Oh quit smoking your weed and pull your head out of your ass.

I would love to see the military go in with the tanks. Unfortunately, thanks to the Liberals they're both over in Afghanistan right now (double edged dig at the decimation of the military and the fact the Libs sent them over there not the Cons)

[BC_chick]

I think he can be compared to a terrorist because Brant said they have weapons and are prepared to use them... therefore inciting terror in the citizens who may be confronted by these protesters, as well as with the police who may have to face an armed conflict.

I thought a terrorist is someone who willfully acts on such threats. The definition is getting more and more broad as we along eh?

[Chuck U. Farlie]

I think he can be compared to a terrorist because Brant said they have weapons and are prepared to use them... therefore inciting terror in the citizens who may be confronted by these protesters, as well as with the police who may have to face an armed conflict.

I thought a terrorist is someone who willfully acts on such threats. The definition is getting more and more broad as we along eh?

ter·ror·ism (tĕr'ə-rĭz'əm) pronunciation

n.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

It can merely be threatened force.... which he has done.

[guyser]

ter·ror·ism (tĕr'ə-rĭz'əm) pronunciation

n.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Nobody I know was "intimidated or coerced". More like, "damn...again?"

Terrorists is a stretch

[BC_chick]

Oh quit smoking your weed and pull your head out of your ass.

I would love to see the military go in with the tanks. Unfortunately, thanks to the Liberals they're both over in Afghanistan right now (double edged dig at the decimation of the military and the fact the Libs sent them over there not the Cons)

Non-sequitur ad hominem attack followed by irrelevant mud-slinging at the Liberal Party.

Double-edged dig at your debating skills.

[Rue]

How did it come to this? How in a G8 nation do we have a terrorist allowed to break the law at will, have his own militia, and have zero fear of the authorities?

How is he a terrorist?

We may disagree on Israel Ms BC but on this one I would ask the same question. These posters who are going on as if these native people are committing terror have no idea what the difference is between people who protest and people who use bombs to kill innocent people.

Then again the way words like "freedom fighter" or "terrorist" are used by people these days does not surprise me. I reserve the word terrorist for someone who attempts to kill and injure civilians as an expression of poltical will or do the same with property on a wide scale level.

At this point the native peoples have not injured or killed any innocent people and their demonstrations h have not blown up buildings to try kill people.

Mr. Brant may have called for violence but he was not supported by the vast majority of natives and their leaders who are supported by the majority of Canadians today and in their efforts to bring attention to the oevr 800 land claims that have been allowed to sit and rot along with their people still trying to defend themselves and explain why it is they would like fresh water and work and their legal rights properly enforced.

They have a right to demonstrate. If it inconveniences Geoffrey because he can't get to his cottage I am sure he can find a way to get out of his car and talk to these terrorists and see if they will kill him. I am sure one or two might be tempted but I think in this case he will be disappointed to know they are civilized, decent, caring people.

[Keepitsimple]

Shades of Ipperwash. This guy and his little band of thugs have said that they have guns and will use them if necessary. This is the same type of atmosphere that permeated Ipperwash back in the mid-nineties - a splinter group of militant Indians who threatened violence and were known to have access to guns, even if they didn't have them at the time of the unfortunate shooting of Dudley George. Back then, it wasn't a question of who was right and who was wrong - it was the fact that militant natives were conducting civil disobedience and flouting the rule of law and to demonstrate that the rule of law must be respected, the Natives were to be cleared from the park. As we all learned, things can quickly go bad. Now we seem to take the other approach and allow all sorts of civil disobedience with impunity - like Caledonia.

Our current government has taken some long-awaited steps to fast-tracking land claims. If we can live up to our part of the bargain and take Native affairs more seriously, then I think on the other side of the coin we have to start returning to more respect for the rule of law. I'm hoping the next 12-24 months will show progress - not only in land claims, but in safe water, Human Rights/Native Women Rights, Education, and Band accountability. Lord knows we spend enough money - First Nations have to have more say but just as important, more accountability as to how that money is spent.

As soon as we can reasonably prove by example that we are moving forward with priority and purpose, we should start throwing guys like Shawn Brant in the slammer along with his militant thugs.

[Rue]

ter·ror·ism (tĕr'ə-rĭz'əm) pronunciation

n.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Nobody I know was "intimidated or coerced". More like, "damn...again?"

Terrorists is a stretch

You know how it goes Guyser. The word is subjectively used by those who disagree with another's political views to gain moral ground and demonize what the user of the word feels is his enemy.

When I use the word with Hamas or cells of Fatah, I am specific to refer to cells who admit and openly state they believe in killing civilians to express their political will as well as using bombs in public places to incite hatred and distrust. To call native people terrorists for demonstrating is of course what I would expect from the same few who write in constantly questioning any right of native peoples to express themselves politically.

Its a shame no natives bother any more to be part of this forum. I wish they could see the majority of us non natives understand why they are having a day of demonstration.

[Rue]

Shades of Ipperwash...As soon as we can reasonably prove by example that we are moving forward with priority and purpose, we should start throwing guys like Shawn Brant in the slammer along with his militant thugs.

Oh why bother. As you say, Shades of Ipperwash...perhaps they should just be shot dead? Is that what you infer?

I notice you spend all your attention on Mr. Brant. Why is it you select this man, and seem to conveniently ignore the 99.99% of native peoples who are demonstrating today lawfully and peacefully? Gee I just can't imagine why you can only focus on Mr. Brant.

Mr. Brant has broken no laws, so calling for him to be arrested is a tad difficult since he has not broken any law, although from the sounds of it, you would like to arrest people who have different political views then you do. Now just who is the thug?

[Rue]

Oh quit smoking your weed and pull your head out of your ass.

I would love to see the military go in with the tanks. Unfortunately, thanks to the Liberals they're both over in Afghanistan right now (double edged dig at the decimation of the military and the fact the Libs sent them over there not the Cons)

Non-sequitur ad hominem attack followed by irrelevant mud-slinging at the Liberal Party.

Double-edged dig at your debating skills.

Just once I would like to take a person who advocates using the army to crush his own citizens for expressing their democratic rights and have them spend a day in Afghanistan or Iraq, or any conflict zone.

Only a Canadian who takes his freedom and majority status for granted would speak in such terms. If this person knew how precious freedom is, he would know no soldier in the Armed Forces needs him to tell them to use their weapons against their own people. Imagine if this guy had to live in a communist or facist country or in a country such as Zimbabwe or Sudan.

What an insult to soldiers fighting in Afghanistan.

[Rue]

Shawn Brant has been "charged" with mischief. Mischief the last time I looked is not a charge of murder, terrorism or a violent crime.

There is no doubt in my mind, the charge will be dismissed and was just done as a political move byt he government to show it does not approve of open calls for militancy. The charge will I am sorry to say not require he be physically arrested and at most it would be a fine if its not plea bargained away or dismissed when he does nothing violent.

I am not agreeing with the man's calls for militancy. Neither did the vast majority of native leaders. But to suggest he is a terrorist and what the native people are doing today are terrorists and smeer them all because this man called for militant actions that yes could have become terrorist, is b.s.

[BornAlbertan]

Non-sequitur ad hominem attack followed by irrelevant mud-slinging at the Liberal Party.

Double-edged dig at your debating skills.

Oh...I am sorry for applying a steretype to you. I just really thought you were stoned for thinking that isn't tantamount to terrorism.

[AndrewL]

I really feel for you guys in Ontario, I really do. McGuinty has, by pretending his hands are tied, given the Indians there the ability to break the law at will, fearing nothing.

Now we have Brant planning an armed blockade of highways and rail lines, and saying he'll kill any cop that tries to stop him.

How did it come to this? How in a G8 nation do we have a terrorist allowed to break the law at will, have his own militia, and have zero fear of the authorities?

He (and all members of his little possie) should have been put in jail years ago. This kind of behavoir cannot be tolerated in Canada. We have the rule of law, and it applies to everyone. Completely unacceptable.

So what will happen tomorrow? Will McGuinty continue to tell the OPP to not uphold the law? Will the Feds call in the army to win over the votes of the majority of Ontarians that are quite sick of the lawlessness? Or will private citizens defend their rights and take matters into their own hands?

Scary times out there guys. Scary times.

Globe and Mail article to read:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

My support goes out to Mr. Brant. I wish him and his fellow protesters all the best.

Sincerely,

Andrew

[BornAlbertan]

Just once I would like to take a person who advocates using the army to crush his own citizens for expressing their democratic rights and have them spend a day in Afghanistan or Iraq, or any conflict zone.

ROFL...it was a joke!!

But while you are on that tangent:

1. It is NOT their democratic right to blockade private property (Rail Lines)

2. It is NOT their democratic right to express militant will of force against the police

3. It is NOT their democratic right hinder the rights and freedom of movement of other citizens as they have done.

If this person knew how precious freedom is, he would know no soldier in the Armed Forces needs him to tell them to use their weapons against their own people

You are completely laughable.

[BornAlbertan]

"We simply want to have a relationship with the rest of Canada that is balanced and fair."

WOOHOO!!!!!! NO MORE TAXES FOR EVERYONE!!!

BRANT FOR PRIME MINISTER!!!

[Keepitsimple]

Shades of Ipperwash...As soon as we can reasonably prove by example that we are moving forward with priority and purpose, we should start throwing guys like Shawn Brant in the slammer along with his militant thugs.

Oh why bother. As you say, Shades of Ipperwash...perhaps they should just be shot dead? Is that what you infer?

I notice you spend all your attention on Mr. Brant. Why is it you select this man, and seem to conveniently ignore the 99.99% of native peoples who are demonstrating today lawfully and peacefully? Gee I just can't imagine why you can only focus on Mr. Brant.

Mr. Brant has broken no laws, so calling for him to be arrested is a tad difficult since he has not broken any law, although from the sounds of it, you would like to arrest people who have different political views then you do. Now just who is the thug?

That's precisely the point - 99.99% are protesting peacefully while this guy is making trouble - against the wishes of First Nations Leaders. Just when we as a country are starting to turn the corner and treat First Nations issues seriously, it serves no purpose to resort to these types of provocations. Instead of the News Media focusing on the Day of Protest and what it truly means, the focus is now on this renegade band of nitwits. Here's a few quotes:

"We've made no secret that we have guns within this camp," Brant told The Canadian Press in an interview.

Assembly of First Nations chief Phil Fontaine says blockades were never intended to be part of the day of protest.

"We've never advocated blockades," he told a Canadian TV station. "We've made it very clear that this is to be peaceful. We want to do everything possible to reach out to Canadians. We are not interested in major disruption. We don't want to impede the Canadian economy."

Link: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/aboriginal_day_action

[capricorn]

What clouds the issue is that the feds don't have the mandate to deal with blockades on rail lines and provincial highways. In this case, the onus is on the province of Ontario to handle any resulting lawlessness. Land claims and Native reserves are federal matters. Poor water on Native reserves is a provincial matters, I think. The division of powers is truly confusing and not well understood by most Canadians, including me. So the feds can't do anything except to call for a peaceful protest. The Province's reaction was to close the 401 this morning. Why? I thought this was a job to be done by the protesters. More confusion.

Sure peaceful protest is acceptable. But a few radical Natives, such as Brant, advocate that violence may be necessary. Brant has said publicly that these actions are "a good test run". For what? Next time, whenever that comes?

http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/index.p...1552&Itemid=266

An arrest warrant was issued against him. He said he'll give himself up later today.

http://www.640toronto.com/news/metro.cfm?c...=1&gm=metro.cfm

I for one was not personally inconvenienced by the blockades. Yet thousands of others were. But in the end, I was not swayed by this protest to want to understand the plight of Natives better. My main concern is that the blockades don't turn violent and everyone goes home safe. I may appear to seem detached from the underlying message the Natives are trying to send. When a person like Brant becomes the main spokesperson connected to these blockades, well, it just turns me off.

[fellowtraveller]

Assembly of First Nations chief Phil Fontaine says blockades were never intended to be part of the day of protest.

"We've never advocated blockades," he told a Canadian TV station. "We've made it very clear that this is to be peaceful. We want to do everything possible to reach out to Canadians. We are not interested in major disruption. We don't want to impede the Canadian economy."

Fortunately, Fontaine simply does not have the chops to control an increasing large and vocal minority of First Nations people.

he is permanently yesterdays 'leader'.

Burn, baby, burn.

[stignasty]

Scary times out there guys. Scary times.

Your hatred for people of aboriginal heritage is hardly surprising.

This thread should be entitled "National day of over-reaction."