Shootings in Toronto

[Mad_Michael]

Lots of opinions good and bad but how do we solve the problem and what would a city such as Toronto survive without this cheap labour? You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

You raise a very interesting question about immigration here.

Canada operates our immigration policy based entirely upon the 'points' system (and has done so for over 30 years). This credits language skills, education and suitability to the Canadian economy for entrants.

Yet, how come Toronto is totally flooded with seemingly hundreds of thousands of immigrants who can't speak English and can't work at anything except unskilled manual labour jobs?

How come an ad for minimum wage day labour job receives thousands of applicants yet any even slightly skilled job at twice the pay draws virtually no applications?

Seems like something funny going on here...

My own company pays well above minimum wage for unskilled labour jobs ($10-$12/hour) - I'd hire an immigrant if one showed up who could actually speak English. As it is, 90% of our summer labour is supplied by college students on summer breaks or retirees without adequate pension plans.

[Mad_Michael]

Lots of opinions good and bad but how do we solve the problem and what would a city such as Toronto survive without this cheap labour? You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Do your homework.

Toronto is flooded with minimum wage labourers. They are a dime a dozen and usually unemployed.

However, according to most analysis, Toronto is in desperate need for over 100,000 workers in the skilled and technical trades.

High skilled jobs can be posted for months without receiving a single applicant.

If it is a minimum wage non-skilled job, don't put a phone number in your ad - you will be sorry for the thousands of telephone calls from non-English speakers.

[rogue state]

which analysis claims that Toronto need 100.000 workers ?

maybe the immigration industry claims that. My 2c it that it's a big lie.

I heard that somewhere in NB they need 6000 truck drivers. why they don't train people for jobs ?

I'm trying for years, to get some courses, because my degree isn't recognized here.

The only response I got is "Go back Home" !

If people don't like welfare kids, why gov't don't educate poor people, in familial planning, like in civilised countries ? to tell them don't make too many kids.

gov't really doesn't do anything !

[ScottSA]

which analysis claims that Toronto need 100.000 workers ?

maybe the immigration industry claims that. My 2c it that it's a big lie.

I heard that somewhere in NB they need 6000 truck drivers. why they don't train people for jobs ?

I'm trying for years, to get some courses, because my degree isn't recognized here.

The only response I got is "Go back Home" !

If people don't like welfare kids, why gov't don't educate poor people, in familial planning, like in civilised countries ? to tell them don't make too many kids.

gov't really doesn't do anything !

You must hail from a former communist country where the government does everything? See, here in the west, we still cling to vestiges of the idea that people probably ought to do at least some things for themselves. Instead of trying for years to get some courses, why don't you just get some courses? There are no shortage of accredited courses lying about hither and yon, and I'm sure you can get student aid if you're worth educating, so just do it...it's more productive than sitting around on pogey complaining and waiting for the government to trundle along and hoist your rump out of the chair and pave your way with endless lucre forever and ever amen. If, as you say, you can't get a job, and you can't get some courses, then why in God's name do you even WANT to be here? No wonder people are telling you to go back home.

[Mad_Michael]

which analysis claims that Toronto need 100.000 workers ?

maybe the immigration industry claims that. My 2c it that it's a big lie.

That's why they call it "your two cents" - because that's what it is worth.

I heard that somewhere in NB they need 6000 truck drivers. why they don't train people for jobs ?

What? You're joking right? Many people don't believe the government has any right to interfere in the marketplace like that - indeed many believe that such government action would harm the efficiency and effectiveness of the marketplace.

Besides the fact that governments are notoriously bad at this particular activity since bureaucracies are always a slow to respond to changes in the marketplace.

Indeed, if you want to be a truck driver in NB, go get your truck driving licence. Nothing is stopping you.

I'm trying for years, to get some courses, because my degree isn't recognized here.

I call bullsh*t. In the employment world, all degrees are recognised.

Only specifically licensed professions are not recognised across international borders (Law, Medicine, Pharmacology, Engineering, etc.) and even then, most of these technical qualifications can be activated in Canada with a 1 year course.

The only response I got is "Go back Home" !

Given your whining about the situation, I don't doubt it. Indeed, I'm tempted to add my voice to the chorus.

If people don't like welfare kids, why gov't don't educate poor people, in familial planning, like in civilised countries ? to tell them don't make too many kids.

Canada educates all people to the level of secondary school. No distinctions between rich or poor.

So, you must be speaking of 'free university' educations for all. Suffice it to say, we're not a 3rd world country and we like to keep our education system functional. It is meant to be an educational system not a subsidy for poor people's egos.

Giving away free university educations is really poor public policy. Just look at any South American or Middle Eastern nation. They all have free university degrees for everyone.

gov't really doesn't do anything !

Yes. Just like police and fire departments. I'm happiest when they have nothing to do.

[guyser]

I call bullsh*t. In the employment world, all degrees are recognised.

No they are not, and that is what keeps this country below what it could be. Plenty of professional accreditations are not recognized but should be.

Test them and let them work. It is a lack of oversight that keeps plenty of immigrants in jobs that are below what they are trained to do.

The govt should trump the orgs that do this and demand they be accepted, of course upon testing for competency.

Doctors is the most obvious one, and the one I have knowledge of is Engineers.

[Argus]

I call bullsh*t. In the employment world, all degrees are recognised.

No they are not, and that is what keeps this country below what it could be. Plenty of professional accreditations are not recognized but should be.

Test them and let them work. It is a lack of oversight that keeps plenty of immigrants in jobs that are below what they are trained to do.

The govt should trump the orgs that do this and demand they be accepted, of course upon testing for competency.

Doctors is the most obvious one, and the one I have knowledge of is Engineers.

Do you want a Russian doctor working on your kid? I saw a report not all that long ago that said few Russian doctors would even qualify to be nurses in Canada because of their lack of training and familiarity with basic equipment

[Mad_Michael]

I call bullsh*t. In the employment world, all degrees are recognised.

No they are not, and that is what keeps this country below what it could be. Plenty of professional accreditations are not recognized but should be.

Test them and let them work. It is a lack of oversight that keeps plenty of immigrants in jobs that are below what they are trained to do.

The govt should trump the orgs that do this and demand they be accepted, of course upon testing for competency.

Doctors is the most obvious one, and the one I have knowledge of is Engineers.

If you have a liberal arts degree or a business degree, it is recognised. You are playing games here trying to assert that limitations upon foreign doctors apply to all foreign educations. That is bulls*t.

Only professional licenced associations prevent foreign credentials from being accepted, as I noted above. And, as also noted, this can be rectified with a 1 year course here in Canada (one year is the course for Pharmacology, I'm not sure off hand what the length of course is for Medicine or Dentistry or Engineering).

You are crying in your own beer. Not likely to get much sympathy for that.

[rogue state]

so, if some people stand on principle that gov't shouldn't do anything, I could ask these people, what is gov't for ? only for face ?

that's where power should be, in the gov't, because is elected by the people ! it is the voice of people. gov't should implement policies, trends.

as for Russian doctors, they are really good, I could trust them.

I spoke also of familial planning, not only university, you know, condoms, pills, diaphragms, all birth controls that should be taught in schools !

[guyser]

Do you want a Russian doctor working on your kid? I saw a report not all that long ago that said few Russian doctors would even qualify to be nurses in Canada because of their lack of training and familiarity with basic equipment

I want competent Drs working, so test them which is what I posted. I certainly dont advocate just handing them an office and say get at it.

The professions themselves know which countries have competent grads.

[guyser]

And, as also noted, this can be rectified with a 1 year course here in Canada (one year is the course for Pharmacology, I'm not sure off hand what the length of course is for Medicine or Dentistry or Engineering).

You are crying in your own beer. Not likely to get much sympathy for that.

Pharma maybe, but none of the others are a year, the qualification is from zero and that is wrong (for the countries that have competent grads)

Crying in my beer? Umm, are you ok?

[rogue state]

Yes. Just like police and fire departments. I'm happiest when they have nothing to do.

so, the gov't is only for directing firefighters and police. it is always good to learn something new

and of course, to cheat immigrants that in Canada, their studies are good for jobs

[margrace]

A plumbing cert takes 9000 hours of training under a liscenced plumber. You also have to have 6 months of schooling. Beginners start at around $12 an hour. The only thing the government does is supply $400 for tools and keep records. Emplyers who want to employ apprentices are few and far between.

In Ontario you must have truck driver training, the cost is $4000.

Local colleges do not provide apprenticship training in many of the trades. George Brown in Torono does.

[Renegade]

Lots of opinions good and bad but how do we solve the problem and what would a city such as Toronto survive without this cheap labour? You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

What exactly does cheap labour have to do with the shootings? Are you somehow infering that if there was no cheap labour in Toronto somehow the shootings would stop?

[rogue state]

maybe the excess labour force, competing for limited resources, tries to eliminate itself.

like in animal populations.

[M.Dancer]

you cannot have the cake and eat it too.

if you need solid muscular males, with high testosterone levels, for work, you have to accept their violence

Thank You Prof. Rushton

[M.Dancer]

Make fun of me and my sheep shagging ancestors all you want, I don't care.

Point of order.

Brothers and cousins aren't ancestors.....

Thank you.

As you were.......

[M.Dancer]

I don't think all is as it seemed in the Manner's household, the sister has now been picked up. Momma must have had a clue about all of this and maybe Dalton McGuinty rushed into this inquiry, it appears to be just more guns and gangstas.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndG...262681-sun.html

The sister of Jordan Manners -- the 15-year-old student gunned down last month in a Toronto high school -- was among the people charged in a massive police crackdown on street gangs in the Driftwood Ave. neighbourhood.

Necole Small, 25, is charged with possession of a prohibited firearm with ammunition, a police source confirmed last night.

When I first heard her call for an inquiry i thought I smelled something fishy. In my mind she is trying to divert responsibility for raising a Jr Thug and maybe make a buck.

[rogue state]

what are you being ironic? Never been in a state of overwhelming fury ?

Well, that's testosterone speaking, not you

[M.Dancer]

I call bullsh*t. In the employment world, all degrees are recognised.

No they are not, and that is what keeps this country below what it could be. Plenty of professional accreditations are not recognized but should be.

Quite right. I know a young woman who got her medical degree in Dublin and practiced for 5 years in CHicago. She would have put her shingle in toronto but her degree was not recognised here.

....she hated Chicago and the violence she saw everynight in the ER that she has since moved to Cork where she delivers babies .......

[Canuck E Stan]

I call bullsh*t. In the employment world, all degrees are recognised.

No they are not, and that is what keeps this country below what it could be. Plenty of professional accreditations are not recognized but should be.

Quite right. I know a young woman who got her medical degree in Dublin and practiced for 5 years in CHicago. She would have put her shingle in toronto but her degree was not recognised here.

....she hated Chicago and the violence she saw everynight in the ER that she has since moved to Cork where she delivers babies .......

I too know a person witha medical degree from Dublin. He hangs his shingle in Vancouver without any problem and has for 20 years.

I think maybe you're not getting her whole story.....

[ScottSA]

Make fun of me and my sheep shagging ancestors all you want, I don't care.

Point of order.

Brothers and cousins aren't ancestors.....

Thank you.

As you were.......

At least there are no Jamaican sheep in the woodpile.

[rogue state]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/...70927110900.htm

"Higher testosterone levels are related to criminal violence and aggressive dominance among women in prison, says a Georgia State University study released Sept. 23. "

I also recall that I read an article that stated that among prison population, people with high T level are incarcerated usually for violent crimes, and these with low T level, usually for property crimes (shoplifting, etc.).

But as I said, the high T people, are needed, especially in hard labour construction jobs, I meet during my work, many people in this area, they are as stereotyped : easily violent, territorial, tension - filled.

the construction jobs are a good outlet (productive) for them.

others outlets, are the military, gym.

[M.Dancer]

I too know a person witha medical degree from Dublin. He hangs his shingle in Vancouver without any problem and has for 20 years.

I think maybe you're not getting her whole story.....

Ask him what he had to take to get licensed in Canada (unless the licensing is provincial?)

My friend would have needed an additional two years here (ontario).....but was immediately accepted as an intern in illinois

[Mad_Michael]

so, if some people stand on principle that gov't shouldn't do anything, I could ask these people, what is gov't for ? only for face ?

Government exists to do those things that private interest is unable to do. Government thus serves a few common interests (national defence, bank regulation, roads, public works, etc).

that's where power should be, in the gov't, because is elected by the people ! it is the voice of people. gov't should implement policies, trends.

A majority of people do not have the right to steal from a minority merely because they are a majority. That is absurd - and dangerously fascist. That is always their argument - implementing the 'will of the people'.

as for Russian doctors, they are really good, I could trust them.

Great. Go to Russia for your healthcare then.

I spoke also of familial planning, not only university, you know, condoms, pills, diaphragms, all birth controls that should be taught in schools !

I could tolerate this as a matter of public health information.

And Canada has a long history of doing this through our public education system, so I'm not sure what your point is (or if you have one here at all).