Canadian Crime Rates And Public Perception

[Moderate Centrist]

"Look, Moderate Centrist, you were the first person to use the word "conspiracy..."

Morgan

Oh really?

Did you or did you not say the following:

" don't think there is a left wing"conspiracy" per say, ..."

Morgan

Perhaps someone else typed that in under your name?

The judicial system is not soft.  Again, on the corrections Canada website it stated Canada had a slightly higher incarceration rate than other developed nations.

"...costs of monitoring criminals in the community are about 25% of what it would cost to have the offender jailed. But is it good for society?

Morgan

I see no evidence that it's bad for society.

I'll have to get back to you on your other questions as I haven't had time to review the information you supplied.

My position is quite simple - claims that the crime rate is rising are not true. Furthermore I feel no personal danger to myself. Finally the laws we have now are adequate to deal with crime as it stands.

[Morgan]

Dear Modern Centrist,

Not to belabour a trivial point, BUT you said this to Allaiance Fanatic at 10:48 AM today:

Second, are you seriously suggesting that Statistics Canada and Corrections Canada are part of a left wing conspiracy?

When I posted at 12:15 AM [ie after your post], so that you would not accuse me of believing in left wing conspiracies per your comment to AF when he criticized Stats Can, I said:

Stats Can is run by government bureaucrats, need I say more? I don't think there is a left wing"conspiracy" per say, but on the otherhand, I don't think Stats Can will necessarily put itself out to pursue statistical studies that might prove to be embaressing to the PMO.

So indeed you introduced the "conspiracy" word into the discussion thread first. I don't believe in conspiracies myself but evidently, conspiracies are on your mind.

[Moderate Centrist]

Below is what showed up on my computer. Your name appears by the post and the word conspiracy is first used here.

If this is Alliance Fanatic then somehow it is showing as your name on my computer. If it was not you I appologize and perhaps Greg could look into it.

This post has become extremely hard to follow on my computer due to formatting.

Again, I responded to what I thought was your post as your name was on it. If I am in error I appologize but you can see for yourself below:

Morgan Posted: Nov 24 2003, 12:12 AM

Full Member

Group: Members

Posts: 123

Member No.: 216

Joined: 1-July 03

Moderate Centrist said:

QUOTE

The methods of organized crime are largely hidden from the public. In any case I don't walk around in constant fear from criminals - that is paranoia. I'm happy with the way things are... for the most part.

QUOTE

But as I've stated before criminal policy in this country can not be dictated by newspaper stories...Finally I believe police power should be kept at a minimum so as not to interfer with the general pubic.We have the laws in place now to deal with crime.

First of all, you are naive if you think you are somehow insulated or removed from the effects of organized crime. Here's a report on the RCMP website to remind you of " how no one in Canada can say they're not affected somehow:"

Organized crime gets us where we live

As well, your bias against law enforcement but support for the legal judicial branch is misguided IMHO. Why would you believe that increased police presence/powers would "interfere" with the public good when it's police officers who are physically the last and most potent barrier between criminals and the ordinary citizen? That's interference, but good interference which I, for one, wouldn't want to live without. So more "interference" betters the odds that I will not be a victim of crime.

IMHO, it's police officers who deter crime, sometimes sacrificing their lives in the process, not "laws" or criminal attorneys or judges. Were there no police, simply having laws on the books would not prevent crime. That's why criminals engage in what's known as "unlawful" activities...it's not their nature to automatically respect/observe the laws on the books.

As for your dismissal of newspapers stories as not giving an accurate picture of crime because they're isolated events, whereas the opposite is true with Stats Can...guess you haven't read the classic book entitled "Statistics Lie."

Stats Can is run by government bureaucrats, need I say more? I don't think there is a left wing"conspiracy" per say, but on the otherhand, I don't think Stats Can will necessarily put itself out to pursue statistical studies that might prove to be embaressing to the PMO.

For example, recidivism rates...those statistics would be helpful for the taxpayer to know as an evaluation tool of our judicial/correctional system... is the current "rehabilitative" approach to criminals working or not? But Stats Can decided it did not have the "resources" to pursue that rather important issue.

Why no ones knows what the recidivism rate is, Ottawa Citizen, March 23/02

Statistics can also promote a false picture just by omission of facts. Though you distrust comments made by police officers because they are "too close" to the subject of crime, I'd suggest that you should apply the same skepticism to bureaucrats who might have a hidden agenda.

Here's an example where the Justice Dept. used statistics to promote a "false picture" because they wanted to sell the public on a touchy feely idea.

Looking at the revised Young Offenders Act.

QUOTE

On April 1,2003, the Young Offenders Act will be replaced with the Youth Criminal Justice Act (YCJA). Justice Canada says the new legislation encourages rehabilitation over incarceration but will deal more harshly with violent offences. But critics say the new Act offers too many "soft" options, like Restorative Justice, and makes society the jail cell. A widely touted statistic (it's on the Justice Canada website) is that Canada currently has the highest rate of youth incarceration in the western world. After questioning the statistic, the Docket learned that Justice Canada defines "incarceration" as any custodial sentence, including "open custody". Open custody is a sentence served in the community, not in jail or a correctional facility.