Ontario's 32 billion dollar gap

[geoffrey]

On a per capita basis, we give 4x what you do. That's unjustified.

Ontario is no longer the economic gold that it once was. Average incomes are plummeting, job growth is stagnant or receding. People that want to make the big bucks and want real opportunity leave and now live in Alberta.

Still spewing crap huh?

This bowing down to the almighty Alberta gets tiresome. I am not convinced you weren't beat up at your Ontario school.

When facts get the better of you, resort to personal attacks.

Aww.

[guyser]

When facts get the better of you, resort to personal attacks.

Aww.

If I should resort to personal attacks Geoffrey , you will know it.

So let me ask...explain "4x's what you do ? This should be fun !!!

[geoffrey]

Ugh. I hate doing your work for you. You make all these claims, then ask me to refute them instead of finding ANY proof yourself. From now on, after this, your completely wrong unless you have some reputable numbers to back up your arguments. Talking from ancedotal grade 11 social studies isn't really acceptable IMO.

Ok, took me a whole 5 minutes to find this source from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

Net gains from Federal Transfers 2003 per capita:

Ontario <$1,235>

Alberta <$3,750>

SOURCE: http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Per_Capita_Provincial_Gains_from_Federal_Programs.pdf

So right there, in offical transfers alone, Alberta contributes 304% per capita of what Ontario does. Or rather, 3.04x what Ontario does.

I can get into a number of other areas of transfers (unemployment is a big one) where Alberta compensates everyone else for. Quick fact, 74.1% of eligable Alberta work, where only 67.9% of Ontarians do. Alberta has 6.2% more economic contributors than Ontario, and on average they make considerable more money (about $5k per year on average per household). Do the math, it's obvious we pay way more in taxes, we get way less back, and there is data to prove it. Unlike your typical urban Ontario anti-Alberta arguments/myths (oh they'd be poor without oil, Ontario is just as rich, Ontario contributes more).

Alberta can't be included in the equalisation formula. First, it would hurt Ontario by raising the equalisation bar enourmously. Second, to even attempt to bring others to Alberta's tax/service balance would be destructive to the rest of the country. No one can come close.

So work with Alberta to cut the slackers out of the system, it's something that Ontario and Alberta have in common, instead of asking Alberta to pick up more of Ontario's slack.

[guyser]

Ugh. I hate doing your work for you. You make all these claims, then ask me to refute them instead of finding ANY proof yourself. From now on, after this, your completely wrong unless you have some reputable numbers to back up your arguments. Talking from ancedotal grade 11 social studies isn't really acceptable IMO.

You are better at math than I , dont get your knickers in a knot.

SOURCE: http://www.taxpayer.com/pdf/Per_Capita_Provincial_Gains_from_Federal_Programs.pdf[/size]

Didnt work. Sorry

So right there, in offical transfers alone, Alberta contributes 304% per capita of what Ontario does. Or rather, 3.04x what Ontario does.

I can get into a number of other areas of transfers (unemployment is a big one) where Alberta compensates everyone else for. Quick fact, 74.1% of eligable Alberta work, where only 67.9% of Ontarians do. Alberta has 6.2% more economic contributors than Ontario, and on average they make considerable more money (about $5k per year on average per household). Do the math, it's obvious we pay way more in taxes, we get way less back, and there is data to prove it. Unlike your typical urban Ontario anti-Alberta arguments/myths (oh they'd be poor without oil, Ontario is just as rich, Ontario contributes more).

I am sorry to report, but others have refuted your stats on this issue much mor than I have. I was looking at your other stats and couldn't comprehend what you were saying. I could see that Ontarios contributions to net govt revenues was so far ahead of anyone, and yet return investment was way below what we pay in. That was where I could not follow you .

So work with Alberta to cut the slackers out of the system, it's something that Ontario and Alberta have in common, instead of asking Alberta to pick up more of Ontario's slack.

See unluck some, I realize that Ont has an advantage over other less wealthy provinces due to many reasons that are out of most peoples control.

We have a large stable mfg'ing base , tons of people, geographically well situated (roads , airports hubs) plenty of wealth and generosity.

But others see their wealth and whine and complain about some have nots taking some for the benefit of all . To some extent I understand it. It is not lost on me that some sense of representation for westerners in Ottawa is lacking.

Sadly tho, the haves might not have been haves a few years ago, or more, and that they have short memories .

Pretty much Ont does what it can and provides funds federally for others to benefit. I dont see that as a problem.

[madmax]

Oil is to Alberta what manufacturing and market proximity are to Ontario. They are both massive opportunities, we take advantage of ours, Ontario has taken for granted theirs.

I love these people that say 'take away oil and what does Alberta have?' Well, that simply isn't going to happen. I could return the illogical argument and say 'take away finance and manufacturing and what does Ontario have?'

It is not an illogical argument. Infact what you have said above is a very realistic assessment. Ontario has taken their manufacturing for granted. I agree with your statements of finance and manufacturing in Ontario. These opportunuties in Ontario have been treated apathetically by governments for quite some time.

I am very dissappointed in the way Ontario has taken these sectors for granted. Their is a rude awakening coming for many people in the future.

If you were criticising my comments, they were merely to state, that Albertas premiers have been very vocal in protecting their sectors.

Ontario Premiers, including Harris, have never been able to sound strong and affirmative when challenging the federal government.

McGuinty sounds whiney.