Economic Growth

[jdobbin]

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/01/31/n...bereconomy.html

Not a good sign. And now with oil prices going down...

I don't think we are headed to recession with good numbers in the States likely to help boost numbers in Canada at some point but you got to wonder why Canada's numbers are so anemic.

[Saturn]

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/01/31/n...bereconomy.html

Not a good sign. And now with oil prices going down...

I don't think we are headed to recession with good numbers in the States likely to help boost numbers in Canada at some point but you got to wonder why Canada's numbers are so anemic.

Things haven't been looking good for quite a while and what most are actually wondering is why Canada's numbers weren't more anemic earlier. Oil prices going down would probably be beneficial for the Canadian economy because 1) the majority of our industries use oil while the minority produce it, and 2) lower oil prices will likely cause our dollar to depreciate against the US dollar, which is something that is very badly needed.

I don't think that we are headed for a recession either but for very low growth for a while. That's unless the US runs into a lot of problems which seems unlikely now that Bush can't do whatever he wants so easily.

[blueblood]

This should help things rolling link

Maybe inflation might slow down too because that took care of the 1% GST tax cut money I thought I was going to save.

[jdobbin]

This should help things rolling link

Maybe inflation might slow down too because that took care of the 1% GST tax cut money I thought I was going to save.

This is dependent on a good crop don't forget. I hope we have a good crop this year but every time we do, commodity prices go down.

[blueblood]

This should help things rolling link

Maybe inflation might slow down too because that took care of the 1% GST tax cut money I thought I was going to save.

This is dependent on a good crop don't forget. I hope we have a good crop this year but every time we do, commodity prices go down.

Not last harvest. approx. 5 bucks for wheat and 8.50 for canola and it being bumper. 30 bu/acre for canola is not hard to get at all. With that law passed 50% of our crop will be fuel not to mention exports we already have. Look what the ethanol industry is doing for corn, it's ridiculous

[geoffrey]

Ahh, isn't it great to watch our economy to fall to peices while the last two government were committed to anti-business tax agendas.

Maybe, just maybe, when most Canadians are out of work, they'll clue in and pressure the government to bring out economic policy out of the 1940's.

[jdobbin]

Not last harvest. approx. 5 bucks for wheat and 8.50 for canola and it being bumper. 30 bu/acre for canola is not hard to get at all. With that law passed 50% of our crop will be fuel not to mention exports we already have. Look what the ethanol industry is doing for corn, it's ridiculous

We'll have to see. It would be good to have farmers get a break but somehow they always get the pointy end of the stick.

[blueblood]

Not last harvest. approx. 5 bucks for wheat and 8.50 for canola and it being bumper. 30 bu/acre for canola is not hard to get at all. With that law passed 50% of our crop will be fuel not to mention exports we already have. Look what the ethanol industry is doing for corn, it's ridiculous

We'll have to see. It would be good to have farmers get a break but somehow they always get the pointy end of the stick.

We'll get it on inputs, oh well in keeping with the thread, they'll also be making money. In my view ag is in a sort of renaissance right now. The economic possibities are there for a profitable industry.

[HistoryBuff44]

Not last harvest. approx. 5 bucks for wheat and 8.50 for canola and it being bumper. 30 bu/acre for canola is not hard to get at all. With that law passed 50% of our crop will be fuel not to mention exports we already have. Look what the ethanol industry is doing for corn, it's ridiculous

We'll have to see. It would be good to have farmers get a break but somehow they always get the pointy end of the stick.

We'll get it on inputs, oh well in keeping with the thread, they'll also be making money. In my view ag is in a sort of renaissance right now. The economic possibities are there for a profitable industry.

The ethanol push will be the demand booster that is needed for canadian ag, althought the australian drought has pushed prices up lately. Now if we can only get the US and EU to drop those subsidies...

[geoffrey]

Poor Mexicans are going broke over their expensive tortillias.

If ethanol causes an artificial famine, will the Greenies still support it? Why are we burning food when people are starving?

[blueblood]

Poor Mexicans are going broke over their expensive tortillias.

If ethanol causes an artificial famine, will the Greenies still support it? Why are we burning food when people are starving?

Well like so many people have stated farming is a business. We want to make money and should, now that the demand is there why should we take a loss so people can have cheap food? Nobody is entitled to cheap food. A lot of farmers have gone broke due to a cheap food policy, now that we have biofuel we can finally market our stuff without flooding the food market.

The only way to secure a cheap food supply is with supply management due to the biofuel industry taking off in the developing world. An industry that is creating jobs and boosting the economy. If Canada is smart we can use this to our advantage and take the pressure off of the oil industry as the only thing that keeps Canada's economy afloat.

[geoffrey]

No no blueblood, your stretching reality a little bit there.

I have no issue with farmers making money. And if ethanol came around in a natural type progression and demand for corn climbed, then sure.

But that's not the case. The case is the government is making policy requiring us to burn our food. It's not a 'win' for the market and farmers. It's a welfare handout to farmers at the expense of food consumers.

So ya, the farmers are going to make money. But not because of their efforts or market ingenuity. Only because the government is subsidizing a ridiculous misadvantage into biofuels.

[blueblood]

No no blueblood, your stretching reality a little bit there.

I have no issue with farmers making money. And if ethanol came around in a natural type progression and demand for corn climbed, then sure.

But that's not the case. The case is the government is making policy requiring us to burn our food. It's not a 'win' for the market and farmers. It's a welfare handout to farmers at the expense of food consumers.

So ya, the farmers are going to make money. But not because of their efforts or market ingenuity. Only because the government is subsidizing a ridiculous misadvantage into biofuels.

Just like cheap food over the past decade was a welfare handout to consumers at the expense of food producers. Come now you can't have your cake and eat it too. We needed this. There were people starving before this biofuel thing and there will be people starving no matter what. The market was dangerously flooded, this sort of throws it back into balance that makes it profitable for smaller scale guys to stay in (2000 acre boys like myself). The tories didn't make it a 10% mandatory content for this very reason. I think its a smart way to get rid of wasted produce. With us making some money which leads to spending money it helps out the economy. The only thing i'd be scared of is inflation rearing its ugly head due to this.

[jdobbin]

Just like cheap food over the past decade was a welfare handout to consumers at the expense of food producers. Come now you can't have your cake and eat it too. We needed this. There were people starving before this biofuel thing and there will be people starving no matter what. The market was dangerously flooded, this sort of throws it back into balance that makes it profitable for smaller scale guys to stay in (2000 acre boys like myself). The tories didn't make it a 10% mandatory content for this very reason. I think its a smart way to get rid of wasted produce. With us making some money which leads to spending money it helps out the economy. The only thing i'd be scared of is inflation rearing its ugly head due to this.

I think farmers should look to diversify beyond corn bio-fuel. By all accounts, there is other waste bio-mass that will push corn aside. It might create a false economy, if you know what I mean. It is good for now but it could be a major blow if woodchips or some other product becomes the choice for bio-fuel.

[blueblood]

That's why I go with #1 high protein wheat, that stuff is for human consumption, they'll take feed wheat and corn for that. More likely corn as it's the most ideal crop for it. Canola oil for diesel fuel is the good one as it is the most ideal feedstock for it. I grow half canola. With the amount of ethanol that north america is wanting to make I wouldn't worry about wood chips and fun stuff like that. It would help more than anything.

Two massive crushers going up in Yorkton which will result in 115 jobs. With that kind of competition for acres that can't be a bad thing.

[geoffrey]

Blueblood, just a curious question about farmers in general... what do you do in the winter? Don't take offense, I'm sure you make your earnings and survive on it year round, and I'm completely ok with seasonal people as long as they support themselves. Can't expect you to grow some wheat in January.

But do you just take it easy, or is there things to be done on a farm in the winter? My ignorance of agriculture is apparent I'm sure.

The other question... where the hell do I get my wheat from in the winter? That stuff must be mighty old, can you keep wheat forever? I'm sure my mini-wheats aren't grown from wheat on the farm across the street from me, field is a little snow covered.

--

Back to the topic at hand before it switched to agri-business... our economy is slumping, our productivity is terrible and our foreign investment climate is icy. When is our government going to revitalize our corporate tax system so that we can compete? The Liberals didn't, the CPC doesn't look like they will (raising taxes on our most productive companies certainly doesn't help). It's frustrating to see the solutions to the problem and a government unwilling to step in and make the changes.

[blueblood]

Blueblood, just a curious question about farmers in general... what do you do in the winter? Don't take offense, I'm sure you make your earnings and survive on it year round, and I'm completely ok with seasonal people as long as they support themselves. Can't expect you to grow some wheat in January.

But do you just take it easy, or is there things to be done on a farm in the winter? My ignorance of agriculture is apparent I'm sure.

The other question... where the hell do I get my wheat from in the winter? That stuff must be mighty old, can you keep wheat forever? I'm sure my mini-wheats aren't grown from wheat on the farm across the street from me, field is a little snow covered.

--

Back to the topic at hand before it switched to agri-business... our economy is slumping, our productivity is terrible and our foreign investment climate is icy. When is our government going to revitalize our corporate tax system so that we can compete? The Liberals didn't, the CPC doesn't look like they will (raising taxes on our most productive companies certainly doesn't help). It's frustrating to see the solutions to the problem and a government unwilling to step in and make the changes.

take care of the cows. But cattle aren't very lucrative anymore. Truck grain out of the bins to the elevator. Work on machinery. Winter is pretty slack compared to summer namely late august though, but rest assured we don't go on e.i. or welfare that's just cowardice and hypocritical. Cattle are lots of work all year long, but aren't worth it financially. Some guys go up north and work on the ice roads. One guy opened up a small mechanic business out of his shop, only open in the winter though. Some guys will go out west in the winter. Most of the guys that are hurting are the guys that have the big brand new iron and want the winter off. If you want work bad enough you'll find it. I don't know how those fishermen do it, I'd go nuts.

wheat and canola can be stored for a fairly long time. That's also why the price is so low a few years ago. I've heard of guys hanging on for a year or more. With cattle, it spoils so it's more "finite" which before BSE led to higher prices.

I was suggesting biofuel as it can take off and revitalize the rural economy. Billions of litres of biofuel means billions of litres of fossil fuels that can be exported. Louis Dreyfus an American company is popping up a big crushing facility very soon. This might seem like a welfare handout but government policy is in fact creating an industry which will be self sufficient in a while. Starting from the basics (rural economy) in my opinion will help out the urban economy by taking guys who are going to school and shouldn't be there and putting them in jobs where they are more suited to. I have a worry about Unions in central Canada, i'm sure those don't help out at all. Just look at what's happening at the big 3 automakers, they're wasting profits on paying off Unions. I'd also say that the gov't has it's spending priorities all mixed up. I would say that they'd be better off setting up profitable crown corporations (if they insist on not cutting corporate tax) instead of throwing money away (indians, day care, quebec, other useless crap). If Ireland is the place to be, if I were Harper I'd be taking notes on how to do things and use our advantages to surpass them.

[jdobbin]

take care of the cows. But cattle aren't very lucrative anymore. Truck grain out of the bins to the elevator. Work on machinery. Winter is pretty slack compared to summer namely late august though, but rest assured we don't go on e.i. or welfare that's just cowardice and hypocritical. Cattle are lots of work all year long, but aren't worth it financially. Some guys go up north and work on the ice roads. One guy opened up a small mechanic business out of his shop, only open in the winter though. Some guys will go out west in the winter. Most of the guys that are hurting are the guys that have the big brand new iron and want the winter off. If you want work bad enough you'll find it. I don't know how those fishermen do it, I'd go nuts.

wheat and canola can be stored for a fairly long time. That's also why the price is so low a few years ago. I've heard of guys hanging on for a year or more. With cattle, it spoils so it's more "finite" which before BSE led to higher prices.

I was suggesting biofuel as it can take off and revitalize the rural economy. Billions of litres of biofuel means billions of litres of fossil fuels that can be exported. Louis Dreyfus an American company is popping up a big crushing facility very soon. This might seem like a welfare handout but government policy is in fact creating an industry which will be self sufficient in a while. Starting from the basics (rural economy) in my opinion will help out the urban economy by taking guys who are going to school and shouldn't be there and putting them in jobs where they are more suited to. I have a worry about Unions in central Canada, i'm sure those don't help out at all. Just look at what's happening at the big 3 automakers, they're wasting profits on paying off Unions. I'd also say that the gov't has it's spending priorities all mixed up. I would say that they'd be better off setting up profitable crown corporations (if they insist on not cutting corporate tax) instead of throwing money away (indians, day care, quebec, other useless crap). If Ireland is the place to be, if I were Harper I'd be taking notes on how to do things and use our advantages to surpass them.

Here's the Globe and Mail story about how economic policy gave Cargill and Tyson control over Canada's cattle industry.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ialROBmagazine/

Louis Dreyfus is based in Paris, France.

Bio-fuel will have to overcome many of the problems that have been identified with it.

http://www.registerguard.com/news/2007/01/...tion=cityregion

Unions aren't responsible for the demise of the big three automakers in Canada. By all accounts, Canadian plants are among the most efficient and have the best quality according to J.D. Powers. The demise of the Big Three comes as a result of white collar mismanagement. To be specific, design, engineering and financing.