Outside of Alberta, Canada is cheap

[Riverwind]

In fact, the vast majority of churches pass along more of the donations than many typical charities do, due to much lower administration costs.

By your logic companies that run United Way campaigns should be called charities because they 'efficiently' collect money for charitable purposes. Money that goes to pay for church buildings and staff is _not_ a charitable donation because the primary purpose of these facilities it to provide a venue for a social club.

[White Doors]

These social clubs are for numerous reasons extremely beneficial to society. Some of the benefits include higher education, better health, lower crime rates and higher satisfaction of life.

This thread is not about whether churches do something to deserve some special treatment under the tax code. This thread is about whether they are really charities. Clubs like the Kinsmen, Lions Club or the Shriners all make similar contributions to society yet they are not called charities unless the organize a specific project with charitable objectives like building low income housing. The money that goes to pay for the upkeep of suburban club-houses and paying staff who speed 90% of their time working with club members is not a charitable donation.

Citation on those numbers please? Free Masons do alot of charitable work and they are not a registered charity. They merely pass around a hat for donations. fyi - Shriners is an offshoot of the freemasons and they are a registered charity. You might have heard of Shriners hospitals? Need some mustard with that foot?

[White Doors]

In fact, the vast majority of churches pass along more of the donations than many typical charities do, due to much lower administration costs.

By your logic companies that run United Way campaigns should be called charities because they 'efficiently' collect money for charitable purposes. Money that goes to pay for church buildings and staff is _not_ a charitable donation because the primary purpose of these facilities it to provide a venue for a social club.

What? I'm saying that most churches likely pass along more of the percentage of donations to 'good works' than alot of charities. By your logic if a local chapter of the muscular dystrophy association has a staff party they should not be a charitiable organization.

[Riverwind]

What? I'm saying that most churches likely pass along more of the percentage of donations to 'good works' than alot of charities. By your logic if a local chapter of the muscular dystrophy association has a staff party they should not be a charitiable organization.

It all comes down to what the primary purpose of the organization is. The primary purpose of a church is to be a social club for its members. The primary purpose of the muscular dystrophy association is to do charitable work. If the the muscular dystrophy association spent 90% of its money on staff parties then it would not be a charity either.

[Figleaf]

Yes it does. If the church uses in for programs targetted mainly for its own parishioners then they are just giving their donations to themselves.

Wrong. The homeless shelter only provides to it's followers, the homeless.

That's a silly hing to say. The money going to the homeless doesn't come from the homeless. Other people donate it.

In times of family crisis (death, other situations), often Churches take a lead role in providing care for their congregation.

Like a social club.

[White Doors]

What? I'm saying that most churches likely pass along more of the percentage of donations to 'good works' than alot of charities. By your logic if a local chapter of the muscular dystrophy association has a staff party they should not be a charitiable organization.

It all comes down to what the primary purpose of the organization is. The primary purpose of a church is to be a social club for its members. The primary purpose of the muscular dystrophy association is to do charitable work. If the the muscular dystrophy association spent 90% of its money on staff parties then it would not be a charity either.

Where are you gettign 90% from besides your arse? All charities have adminstrative costs. I'm willing to bet that churches by and large have a lower administrative costs than most other charities. Also, most religious folks are taught to help others as is the church. The primary purpose of a church is to get it's members into heaven. Charitable works go along way towards that goal as can be demonstrated by any number of examples that I have given here.

Have you been to a church social event? All the old ladies make food and baked goodies. I don't see many of the donations given to the church going to these events. The church and manse upkeep and the pay of the minister is what they use some of the donations for, sure. Again, these upkeep costs I bet are much lower than the majority of charities out there.

[White Doors]

Like a social club.

Really? Which social club is this?

I find it really sad that just because people are atheist or agnostic that they refuse to recognize the benefits that organized religion can bring to our society.

[Riverwind]

Where are you gettign 90% from besides your arse?

From reading the financial reports of a couple churches. Its was an estimate. A more accurate statement is that 70-90% of the money donated to most churches does not go to anything other than keeping the churches running or providing services to the club members.

All charities have adminstrative costs. I'm willing to bet that churches by and large have a lower administrative costs than most other charities.

What does that have to do with anything? Churches are not intended to be charities. Any charity work that is organized though churches is incidental. Just like a business that runs a United Way campaign.

The primary purpose of a church is to get it's members into heaven. Charitable works go along way towards that goal as can be demonstrated by any number of examples that I have given here.

Does killing doctors that provide abortions count as charity in your world? There used to be a connection between getting into heaven and charity but many Christian churches have lost their way and choose to spend their energy and money trying to get the state to impose their values on non-believers.

[Figleaf]

Like a social club.

Really? Which social club is this?

I find it really sad that just because people are atheist or agnostic that they refuse to recognize the benefits that organized religion can bring to our society.

I find it really sad that some people's urge to oppose others makes them refuse to deal with what they actually say instead of making straw men.

I did not say that no churches do charitable things. I said that those who use their 'charitable' donations primarily for themselves are not really charitable.

[leonardcohen]

Like a social club.

Really? Which social club is this?

I find it really sad that just because people are atheist or agnostic that they refuse to recognize the benefits that organized religion can bring to our society.

I find it really sad that some people's urge to oppose others makes them refuse to deal with what they actually say instead of making straw men.

I did not say that no churches do charitable things. I said that those who use their 'charitable' donations primarily for themselves are not really charitable.

Asociety

A society that relies on government to administar to the poor don't give generally because they think they don't have to.