Garth Turner Turfed

[MightyAC]

I would guess that the reason Garth got turfed was to contain leakage about the income trust changes. Any leak of this would have given the large org. an advantage, they (CPC) had to maintain a level playing field. Garth couldn't be trusted.

Garth wasn't privy to that information so that would be impossible. Nice try though.

[scribblet]

He would have been.

[MightyAC]

He would have been.

Right...at exactly the same time the rest of the non-cabinet CPC and the media found out.

This theory of yours is weak. The CPC hasn't even tried to spin it that way. Actually, just a few days after being turfed, Garth's office asked for the reasons he was fired in writing and the CPC has yet to resond.

[MightyAC]

Garth will be holding a news conference tomorrow. He won't say exactly what it is about just that it is not about him becoming deputy leader of the Green Party or becoming a Lib. Base on his last couple of blog entries it sounds like it has something to do with how the PMO operates. Upon being turfed Garth's office asked for 10 answers in writing. Well he finally got a response and as a result he is making the trek back to Ottawa when parliament isn't even sitting to hold a pres conference. I hope this is good as I do like political excitement.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/11...2338769-cp.html

[southerncomfort]

How does that go now, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, guess its now an MP scorned. Boy talk about having hissy fits.

[MightyAC]

How does that go now, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, guess its now an MP scorned. Boy talk about having hissy fits.

I can understand why Con supporters would like to discredit Garth by comparing him to a woman having hissy fits, as his firing looks bad for the party. Garth embodied what the CPC pretended to be. He supports bottom up, grassroots democracy. He stands up for his constituents; he believes in accountability, transparency and honesty and then actually walks the walk. He also refuses to put the party ahead of the voters and become another silent party hack.

I hate our current electoral system but if we had more politicians like Garth who actually do what they say and fight for their constituents it wouldn't be near as bad.

Garth was sacked without an official reason. His office asked for written answers to 10 questions about his dismissal. The eventual answers prompted a letter to the PM and then the news conference today. Soon we'll all find out what Garth found out.

I encourage CPC supporters, well supporters of all parties for that matter, to write their own MPs and encourage them to be more like Garth. I would think all people want their MPs to represent them first and the party second.

[margrace]

Oh yeah, not when your member is Tony Clement, couldn't win is Southern Ontario, parachuted into our riding and won by less than 30 votes.

[MightyAC]

Oh yeah, not when your member is Tony Clement, couldn't win is Southern Ontario, parachuted into our riding and won by less than 30 votes.

At least you have a cabinet minister in your riding so you'll probably get a gift before the next election. Maybe some medical funding....I once had a fishing lure removed from my head in the Parry Sound hospital.

I have a CPC back bencher in my riding. He has no power to represent us, submit private members bills or even talk to the press without permission. On occasion he appears on local radio to toe the party line. When the Emerson crossed the floor, Garth said that was wrong of us. I admired his honesty. My MP slammed the Fiberals and Belinda but then on local radio told us that Harper is a very smart man and the move, though controversial is in our best interest...one of those father knows best type speeches.

[MightyAC]

So the CPC’s treatment of Garth Turner says a lot about what it really thinks about accountability and grass roots democracy.

Clip from Garth's site.

The people who selected me as the Conservative candidate in Halton, sent 10 questions to the leadership of the Party. Among those questions:

1. What was the reason the MP was booted out and where's the evidence? After all, they selected him and sent him to Ottawa.

2. What is the MP's status as a candidate for next election? The local party people nominated him twice in 18 months, the last time just 8 weeks ago.

3. What happens if the people in the riding nominate him again? Who decides who represents the people - the people, or the party?

Well, now we have some answers.

Three letters were sent to me and my Halton Conservative association simultaneously on Friday afternoon. You will be given copies in a moment.

Here is what the leader of the Conservative Party, its top officials and the National Caucus chair, have determined:

1. I have been disqualified as a party candidate for in the next election. I am a card-carrying member of the party, and yet denied the right to be a candidate.

2. That decision came in a closed meeting by the Party's national executive. No reason given.

3. The national president of the party says I will not be permitted to seek a Conservative nomination again.

4. My suspension from caucus is indefinite, no reason will be given for it. No evidence will be provided to my electors. And I don't know what indefinite means...

5. National caucus chair Rahim Jaffer tells the local riding all of these matters are all internal.

Let me summarize:

* The party has removed an MP nominated by the local party members and elected by the voters.

* The party will not explain this to those folks.

* The candidate they selected for the next election is being set aside. No explanation.

* All of these actions were taken in secret, without any input or appeal, and yet materially affect the voters of a large electoral district.

* This raises more questions - about the role average Canadians actually have in the political system, and their ability to choose their own representatives - and about this government's commitment to transparency, openness and accountability in the political system.

Canada's New Government is suddenly looking a lot like the old ones - controlling power in Ottawa while it makes both MPs and the people who sent them here irrelevant.

[jbg]

I encourage CPC supporters, well supporters of all parties for that matter, to write their own MPs and encourage them to be more like Garth. I would think all people want their MPs to represent them first and the party second.

The US took that invitation in 1974, when the party system was drastically weakened with the abolition of certain "seniority" rules. The results have been horrific.

Now, there's all kinds of "logrolling" and "backscratching", so truly worthless expenditures such as Alaska's "bridge to nowhere" (yes, I know it was finally recently scratched) are financed, and real needy people's programs are scrimped on. It was one of those great ideas that doesn't work in the real world.

[gerryhatrick]

WTH was this guy's big press conference supposed to be about?

I thought he was releasing some big revelations. It was a non-event.

Man, he is a character!

[Canadian Blue]

Yeah no doubt, the relevations turned out to be nothing at all. Hell I was even wondering if I'd have to be looking for a new party if those relevation's sounded as bad as he made them out to be.

[MightyAC]

Immediately after being turfed Garth the media peppered him with questions about his future plans. Garth told the press he'd explore his options and hold a press conference when he has an answer. As soon as he announced the conference visitors to his blog and the media postulated theories as to what Garth would reveal, the hype created became ridiculous. However the same media that created the hype gives Garth unheard of power and influence for an independent MP so I doubt he'll complain.

In the conference he revealed that he will not cross the floor and become Green. He will campaign for Liz May in the London by-election though, which leads me to believe he will run as a Green candidate next election. I'm glad he didn't simply become a Green MP as that would make him as dishonest as the Cons or Libs have been recently. Plus his problems with the CPC began when he had the nerve to honestly say that his party should not have allowed Emerson to cross the floor and should not have appointed an unelected man to the senate and cabinet.

His revelations about the CPC were over hyped, but do reveal that they are no more accountable to voters than the previous Liberal governments.

1. When asked for an official reason, in writing, for his indefinite suspension from caucus the CPC would not give one.

2. The CPC party rules state that any party member can seek the nomination of a riding. Despite being a CPC member Garth will not be allowed to seek the CPC nomination of Halton Region. In fact, the national CPC president says Garth cannot seek the nomination again.

Garth summarizes the situation perfectly. "The party has removed an MP nominated by the local party members and elected by the voters. The party will not explain this to those folks. The candidate they selected for the next election is being set aside. No explanation. All of these actions were taken in secret, without any input or appeal, and yet materially affect the voters of a large electoral district.

This raises more questions - about the role average Canadians actually have in the political system, and their ability to choose their own representatives - and about this government's commitment to transparency, openness and accountability in the political system."

To me that is a serious problem. The CPC went on and on about accountability during the last election campaign. The question is who should MPs be accountable to, the voters or the party? The CPC showed us that MPs must choose their party over the people, and that's just plain wrong.

[normanchateau]

In the conference he revealed that he will not cross the floor and become Green. He will campaign for Liz May in the London by-election though, which leads me to believe he will run as a Green candidate next election. I'm glad he didn't simply become a Green MP as that would make him as dishonest as the Cons or Libs have been recently. Plus his problems with the CPC began when he had the nerve to honestly say that his party should not have allowed Emerson to cross the floor and should not have appointed an unelected man to the senate and cabinet.

I believe he announced yesterday that he will run as an Independent, not a Green, in the next election. It'll be interesting to see if he splits the right wing vote allowing a Liberal victory or if he wins running as an Independent. Either way, it's probably a lost seat for the Conservatives.

Turner maintains his integrity by not becoming a Green MP and further reinforces the hypocricy of so-con Harper and the other Cons who condemned the Stronach floor crossing while touting the virtues, morals and wisdom of the Emerson floor crossing.

[scribblet]

What is amazing is that this guy had to know the rules and been fully aware that he was making waves and that his attitude wouldn't be tolerated much longer; yet he persisted to go the whole nine yards. If I were in his constituency and a conservative I think I would be quite pleased to see him go. Any party has have rules and consistency, I doubt that even dithers would have tolerated him, certainly the libertarian minded Harper didn't have to.

Garth is a megalomaniac, a myth in his own mind.

[normanchateau]

What is amazing is that this guy had to know the rules and been fully aware that he was making waves and that his attitude wouldn't be tolerated much longer; yet he persisted to go the whole nine yards. If I were in his constituency and a conservative I think I would be quite pleased to see him go. Any party has have rules and consistency.

Now we know why Harper and the Cons tolerated Gurmant Grewal. He played by the Conservative rule book and didn't make waves.

[scribblet]

?????

[Shakeyhands]

What is amazing is that this guy had to know the rules and been fully aware that he was making waves and that his attitude wouldn't be tolerated much longer; yet he persisted to go the whole nine yards. If I were in his constituency and a conservative I think I would be quite pleased to see him go. Any party has have rules and consistency, I doubt that even dithers would have tolerated him, certainly the libertarian minded Harper didn't have to.

Garth is a megalomaniac, a myth in his own mind.

Dithers is against the rules, as was Fiberals MightyAC. You guys aren't new and should both know this.

Are you attacking Turner now for a reason or is it the party line Scrib? What did he do wrong? Why is what was touted as an open Government stifling MP's? Don't you see an issue with that?

[normanchateau]

I doubt that even dithers would have tolerated him,

I can think of far worse names for Mr. Harper but was under the impression that this was not permitted on the discussion board. Mr. Harper, oddly, had no problem tolerating the remarkably unsavoury Gurmant Grewal who apparently was far more acceptable to the Cons than Garth Turner.

[MightyAC]

Scriblett wrote:

What is amazing is that this guy had to know the rules and been fully aware that he was making waves and that his attitude wouldn't be tolerated much longer; yet he persisted to go the whole nine yards.

That's why I admire him. The rules were no MP can speak to the press without permission from cabinet. MPs must attend a meeting before committee to be told what that they should do or say. Non-cabinet MPs cannot speak in the houses without permission and pre-approval of a script. MPs cannot submit private members bills without cabinet approval. Garth said his constituents come first and lived up to the promises of honesty, accountability and transparency.

To borrow a phrase from a farmer friend of mine. "The Conservatives sure sprayed Roundup on the grassroots this time"

Shakeyhands wrote:

Dithers is against the rules, as was Fiberals MightyAC. You guys aren't new and should both know this

Not sure what you mean by this. By slamming the anti-democratic, dictatorial, top down policies of the CPC I am not in any way endorsing the Liberals.

I know the Fibs forced the cabinet to vote for SSM...I know Copps made allegations that Martin and the Fibs helped Valeri win her nomination in Stoney Creek... Is that what you're referring to?

[normanchateau]

Shakeyhands wrote:

Dithers is against the rules, as was Fiberals MightyAC. You guys aren't new and should both know this

Not sure what you mean by this. By slamming the anti-democratic, dictatorial, top down policies of the CPC I am not in any way endorsing the Liberals.

This discussion board is being hijacked by comedians.

[MightyAC]

Not sure what you mean by this. By slamming the anti-democratic, dictatorial, top down policies of the CPC I am not in any way endorsing the Liberals.

This discussion board is being hijacked by comedians.

sigh... ok, you're either disagree with me referring to CPC policies as anti-democratic, dictatorial and top down or you believe that I am in fact endorings the Libs... care to expand?

[normanchateau]

Not sure what you mean by this. By slamming the anti-democratic, dictatorial, top down policies of the CPC I am not in any way endorsing the Liberals.

This discussion board is being hijacked by comedians.

sigh... ok, you're either disagree with me referring to CPC policies as anti-democratic, dictatorial and top down or you believe that I am in fact endorings the Libs... care to expand?

It would be my pleasure to expand. The rules that Shakeyhands was referring to were the rules of the discussion board. There is a rule prohibiting insults, and terms like Fiberals and Fibs are insults. According to the rules and guidelines, these are third-party insults and we're not supposed to use them.

Imagine how this discussion board would degenerate if I were regularly to employ derogatory terms for the Conservatives, e.g., Harpercrites, given their reversal in 2006 from their vehement opposition to floor crossing in 2005. In 2005, some CPC MPs were even proposing legislation to prohibit parliamentary floor crossing. Then came Emerson.

[MightyAC]

It would be my pleasure to expand. The rules that Shakeyhands was referring to were the rules of the discussion board. There is a rule prohibiting insults, and terms like Fiberals and Fibs are insults. According to the rules and guidelines, these are third-party insults and we're not supposed to use them.

Imagine how this discussion board would degenerate if I were regularly to employ derogatory terms for the Conservatives, e.g., Harpercrites, given their reversal in 2006 from their vehement opposition to floor crossing in 2005. In 2005, some CPC MPs were even proposing legislation to prohibit parliamentary floor crossing. Then came Emerson.

Whoops, I missed the point completely. Thanks.

[normanchateau]

Whoops, I missed the point completely. Thanks.

You're welcome.