Reuters: Canada's Harper under fire for clean air plan

[gerryhatrick]

I agree, the Liberals screwed up because they.......

It's typical human rationale. Who cares about the future, let's think about today.

Nevermind today, all they can think about is the past. Everything is Liberal Liberal Liberal. When will the NEW government take some responsibility for something, like this so-called "plan".

[Ricki Bobbi]

Nevermind today, all they can think about is the past. Everything is Liberal Liberal Liberal. When will the NEW government take some responsibility for something, like this so-called "plan".

You aren't making *any* sense. Time to change the dosage on those meds buddy.

[B. Max]

What I do know is that greenhouse emissions skyrocketed during the Liberal plan. It can't possibly be worse then Kyoto for results.

I agree, the Liberals screwed up because they weren't willing to pay the political price for implementing the changes that were required for Kyoto. The Conservatives govt., know that they would also pay a political price, especially in their stronghold of Alberta, refuse to take seriosuly, the warning of future disaster by the increase of greenhouse gases and its negative influence on Earth's climate.

It's typical human rationale. Who cares about the future, let's think about today. The economy is booming, Canada is doing well from oil and gas, the automobile industry has a major impact on Ontario's economy, people are making lots of money, there are lots of jobs....things are great so why would we want to change that.

Let's zoom back 100 years in the fishery, lots of fish, people are working, companies are making money...things are great. What? There are people say that if we catch too much fish that eventually the fish will diminish, jobs will be lost, species of fish will be threatened to the point of extinction...nahhh...just scare tactics, it'll never happen. People back then only thought of the now, not the future.

The same thing is happening today. Industry continues to spew out gases, there are indications that the Greenhouse Effect is in its starting stages. A majority of scientists say that its points to devastation in the future. Of course, some of you will say that there are also scientists that say it won't happen, but I would have to point out two things. These scientists are in the minority and many are employed by ogranizations that are sympathetic to "big business." The tobacco industry for years used to cite scientists that said who there was no proof that tobacco was harmful....

The problem is that we are too greedy, who cares about 100 years from now, when we won't even be alive...all we care about is the now and the near future. I wonder what our grand grandchildren, when they are suffering from the full impact of greenhouse gases will ask about this generation. One question I'm sure they will ask is why we didn't try to stop the devastation from starting when we had the chance and they will wonder how we could have been so cruel to allow it to happen.

Where is your proof.

[jbg]

What I do know is that greenhouse emissions skyrocketed during the Liberal plan. It can't possibly be worse then Kyoto for results.

I agree, the Liberals screwed up because they weren't willing to pay the political price for implementing the changes that were required for Kyoto. The Conservatives govt., know that they would also pay a political price, especially in their stronghold of Alberta, refuse to take seriosuly, the warning of future disaster by the increase of greenhouse gases and its negative influence on Earth's climate.

It's typical human rationale. Who cares about the future, let's think about today. The economy is booming, Canada is doing well from oil and gas, the automobile industry has a major impact on Ontario's economy, people are making lots of money, there are lots of jobs....things are great so why would we want to change that.

Let's zoom back 100 years in the fishery, lots of fish, people are working, companies are making money...things are great. What? There are people say that if we catch too much fish that eventually the fish will diminish, jobs will be lost, species of fish will be threatened to the point of extinction...nahhh...just scare tactics, it'll never happen. People back then only thought of the now, not the future.

The same thing is happening today. Industry continues to spew out gases, there are indications that the Greenhouse Effect is in its starting stages. A majority of scientists say that its points to devastation in the future. Of course, some of you will say that there are also scientists that say it won't happen, but I would have to point out two things. These scientists are in the minority and many are employed by ogranizations that are sympathetic to "big business." The tobacco industry for years used to cite scientists that said who there was no proof that tobacco was harmful....

The problem is that we are too greedy, who cares about 100 years from now, when we won't even be alive...all we care about is the now and the near future. I wonder what our grand grandchildren, when they are suffering from the full impact of greenhouse gases will ask about this generation. One question I'm sure they will ask is why we didn't try to stop the devastation from starting when we had the chance and they will wonder how we could have been so cruel to allow it to happen.

Where is your proof.

In Canada, as one of your great, eloquent leaders pointed out, a proof is a proof, which is also a proof.

[B. Max]

In Canada, as one of your great, eloquent leaders pointed out, a proof is a proof, which is also a proof.

Who said that?

[jbg]

In Canada, as one of your great, eloquent leaders pointed out, a proof is a proof, which is also a proof.

Who said that?

You should know. I'm a Yank, and know nothing about Canada. Try this link:

http://www.raypfob.com/proof.htm

[B. Max]

You should know. I'm a Yank, and know nothing about Canada. Try this link:

http://www.raypfob.com/proof.htm

You need to come to Alberta some time and get away from that eastern influence.

[jbg]

You should know. I'm a Yank, and know nothing about Canada. Try this link:

http://www.raypfob.com/proof.htm

You need to come to Alberta some time and get away from that eastern influence.

Not sure where Alberta is. Somewhere east of Quebec?

[RWA]

You should know. I'm a Yank, and know nothing about Canada. Try this link:

http://www.raypfob.com/proof.htm

You need to come to Alberta some time and get away from that eastern influence.

Not sure where Alberta is. Somewhere east of Quebec?

It's west of Quebec and north of Montana.

[B. Max]

Not sure where Alberta is. Somewhere east of Quebec?

It's west of Quebec and north of Montana.

I'm pretty sure he's joking.

[jbg]

Not sure where Alberta is. Somewhere east of Quebec?

It's west of Quebec and north of Montana.

I'm pretty sure he's joking.

RWA, thanks for the help. That would put it north of the Yukon Territories and Northeast of Alaska?

[gerryhatrick]

If the green whack jobs had their way people wouldn't need a cheque book because they wouldn't have a pay cheque. The greens are the threat to the world not global warming.

And what is the goal of these "green whack jobs"? Is it simply to take away your cheque book?

Have they invented Global Warming simply to cause all the car manufacturers and oil companies to go out of business so that you no longer have a pay cheque?

I'm not really interested in your conspiracy theories, but it's like a train wreck and I can't help but ask a couple of questions about it.

The topic assumes that Global Warming is an issue, and quite obviously it is.

Whether you're living in the denial dream world or not, Global Warming is undeniably an issue today that politicians are scrambling to either address or give the impression that they will address it.

Given that, this sneak preview of Harpers plan does not bode well for the CPC. Nothing in the world would have guaranteed them a majority moreso than strong action on Global Warming.

[B. Max]

If the green whack jobs had their way people wouldn't need a cheque book because they wouldn't have a pay cheque. The greens are the threat to the world not global warming.

And what is the goal of these "green whack jobs"? Is it simply to take away your cheque book?

Have they invented Global Warming simply to cause all the car manufacturers and oil companies to go out of business so that you no longer have a pay cheque?

I'm not really interested in your conspiracy theories, but it's like a train wreck and I can't help but ask a couple of questions about it.

The topic assumes that Global Warming is an issue, and quite obviously it is.

Whether you're living in the denial dream world or not, Global Warming is undeniably an issue today that politicians are scrambling to either address or give the impression that they will address it.

Given that, this sneak preview of Harpers plan does not bode well for the CPC. Nothing in the world would have guaranteed them a majority moreso than strong action on Global Warming.

Actually their ultimate goal is depopulation. They have invented man made global warming, that is a fact. They have also stated that they intend to drive industrialization out of business and that is what sustains the population. Whatever strong action is on the so called global warming would ensure defeat for Harper at the very least ensure Alberta secession and most without some luck lead to civil war.

[cybercoma]

To me and many other Canadians this is the #1 issue for our government. If they stall and double-talk this one there will be a heavy price to pay at the polls.

Since the environment is your #1 issue, please enlighten us as to what you think needs to be done.

[gerryhatrick]

To me and many other Canadians this is the #1 issue for our government. If they stall and double-talk this one there will be a heavy price to pay at the polls.

Since the environment is your #1 issue, please enlighten us as to what you think needs to be done.

For starters, we'll need to get rid of the rightwing nutjobs in the USA, who do not treat Global Warming as a serious threat. A large part of that will be happening November 7th. Perhaps they can investigate Senator Inhofe for misleading the public on the issue of Global Warming.

Second, we need to get rid of the rightwingers in Canada, who also treat Global Warming as if it's just a political issue to be danced around. If the actual "clean air plan" is as worthless as the leaked version, I suspect that will be happening next spring.

[Argus]

The critisism of this "plan" is best described in the second link provided in the second post.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics...k=63630&p=2

The main problem is that the legislation already exists, so why are they wasting time creating new legislation?

That is the question that they're going to have to answer over and over, and pointing a finger at the Liberals is not an answer.

Logic. If the legislational ready exists - according to the Liberals - then why didn't the Liberals use it?

[Argus]

To me and many other Canadians this is the #1 issue for our government. If they stall and double-talk this one there will be a heavy price to pay at the polls.

Since the environment is your #1 issue, please enlighten us as to what you think needs to be done.

For starters, we'll need to get rid of the rightwing nutjobs in the USA, who do not treat Global Warming as a serious threat. A large part of that will be happening November 7th. Perhaps they can investigate Senator Inhofe for misleading the public on the issue of Global Warming.

Second, we need to get rid of the rightwingers in Canada, who also treat Global Warming as if it's just a political issue to be danced around. If the actual "clean air plan" is as worthless as the leaked version, I suspect that will be happening next spring.

Interesting. How do you propose to "get rid of" people like me?

I'd really like to know. Does it involve "camps" of some kind?

[cybercoma]

For starters, we'll need to get rid of the rightwing nutjobs in the USA, who do not treat Global Warming as a serious threat. A large part of that will be happening November 7th. Perhaps they can investigate Senator Inhofe for misleading the public on the issue of Global Warming.

How do you propose overthrowing the US government and rounding up all the "rightwing nutjobs in the USA"? How exactly will you "get rid" of them? And what part of this solution solves our current global warming problem?

Second, we need to get rid of the rightwingers in Canada, who also treat Global Warming as if it's just a political issue to be danced around. If the actual "clean air plan" is as worthless as the leaked version, I suspect that will be happening next spring.

Once again, how are you going to round up the rightwingers? Is everyone who opposes kyoto a "rightwinger"?

Obviously you plan on overthrowing the government by voting in another party. But what party will you vote for, what is their solution to global warming and how is their solution going to solve the global warming problem?

And since you didn't really answer my original question...

What do YOU think should be done in Canada to stop global warming?

[cybercoma]

Interesting. How do you propose to "get rid of" people like me?

I'd really like to know. Does it involve "camps" of some kind?

Quit mowing my lawn.

[gerryhatrick]

Cyber & Argus, I find it very interesting that both of you had the same response to me. You both decided to accuse me of promoting some kind of fascist roundup or undemocratic coup.

This in spite of me specifically citing November 7th as being the beginning of the effort to get rid of the rightwingers.

And cyber I did answer your question. The first step is to get rid of rightwingers. I would label anyone unwilling or unable to recognize the reality of Global Warming and our role in it as a rightwinger. They have wires in the brain connected in the rightwing configuration. They need to be removed from government so that some honest action can occur.

I realize you're also wanting to know what specific programs I would support in the Global Warming fight.

Carbon tax would be something to explore. The oil sands output needs to be curbed somehow, but it needs to be enforced immediately.

There should also be a huge push by our leadership to highlight, encourage, and reward individual efforts.

Automakers need to be forced to make vehicles more efficient as well. They've been proven capable of it it elsewhere.

[Argus]

I realize you're also wanting to know what specific programs I would support in the Global Warming fight.

Carbon tax would be something to explore. The oil sands output needs to be curbed somehow, but it needs to be enforced immediately.

There should also be a huge push by our leadership to highlight, encourage, and reward individual efforts.

Automakers need to be forced to make vehicles more efficient as well. They've been proven capable of it it elsewhere.

So you're willing to spend tens of billions of dollars on a desperate effort to reduce Canada's emissions even though they are a drop in the bucket so far as Global Warming is concerned?

The fact is world emissions are not going to be reduced until science produces another energy source which is as cheap and efficient as fossil fuels.

I can see it now. Five years in the future, Prime Minister Rae announces trumphantly, that after spending a hundred billion dollars, and doubling our unemployment rate, Canada has reduced its emissions by ten megatonnes!

Then the Chinese ambassador giggles, leans into the mike and says "Whoops, so sorry, People's republic has increased emissions by three hundred megatonnes again this year."

[B. Max]

I realize you're also wanting to know what specific programs I would support in the Global Warming fight.

Carbon tax would be something to explore. The oil sands output needs to be curbed somehow, but it needs to be enforced immediately.

There should also be a huge push by our leadership to highlight, encourage, and reward individual efforts.

Automakers need to be forced to make vehicles more efficient as well. They've been proven capable of it it elsewhere.

Like I said, Alberta secession at the very least, and with some luck, avoid civil war.

[gerryhatrick]

I realize you're also wanting to know what specific programs I would support in the Global Warming fight.

Carbon tax would be something to explore. The oil sands output needs to be curbed somehow, but it needs to be enforced immediately.

There should also be a huge push by our leadership to highlight, encourage, and reward individual efforts.

Automakers need to be forced to make vehicles more efficient as well. They've been proven capable of it it elsewhere.

So you're willing to spend tens of billions of dollars on a desperate effort to reduce Canada's emissions even though they are a drop in the bucket so far as Global Warming is concerned?

That's your portrayal, not mine. And it's a dishonest one.

The topic deals with the fact that Global Warming IS an important issue, and the Harper plan is criticised as not doing enough. That is the message Canadians see and understand.

[jbg]

And cyber I did answer your question. The first step is to get rid of rightwingers. I would label anyone unwilling or unable to recognize the reality of Global Warming and our role in it as a rightwinger. They have wires in the brain connected in the rightwing configuration. They need to be removed from government so that some honest action can occur.

Without rehashing my points, my view is that weather is cyclical. There are long-term cycles, such as the Medieval Optimum that brought Vikings to Greenland, Iceland and Vinland (now NL). The same cycles brought solid ice to the Thames during the 1600's, snow to Jamestown, Virginia during that period, and snow scenes for Christmas Carol in Dickens. With little evidence, people afraid of dynamic economic activity, especially European countries with stagnant systems (link), seek to rope down the English-speaking countries with the Kyoto wet blanket. This is not progressive; it is reactionary.

I realize you're also wanting to know what specific programs I would support in the Global Warming fight.

Carbon tax would be something to explore. The oil sands output needs to be curbed somehow, but it needs to be enforced immediately.

Why, to forever lodge tyrannical economic power in the Arab countries?

[gerryhatrick]

Without rehashing my points, my view is that weather is cyclical. There are long-term cycles, such as the Medieval Optimum that brought Vikings to Greenland, Iceland and Vinland (now NL). The same cycles brought solid ice to the Thames during the 1600's, snow to Jamestown, Virginia during that period, and snow scenes for Christmas Carol in Dickens.

Thankyou for not rehashing your points. No links are necessary.

All of that is understood by climatic scientists. It doesn't detract from the simple fact that Global Warming is happening and we're causing it.

I find it humorous that the deniers insist on pretending that Global Warming and measures against it are some kind of leftist conspiracy. The inability to face the truth on this issue is sad, but perhaps understandable given the magnitude of it. It frightens people, and weaker minds are unable to face it.