New ideas on gun control

[Topaz]

When anyone talks about gun control and the registering of guns, alot of people say they don't work. So let's have some NEW ideas to try to stop what just happen in Montreal again. I think that may instead of registering the gun, PEOPLE should be registered and perhaps see a mental health doctor yearly. After all the saying is "guns don't kill people, people do!" also, semi-automatics should be ban from the public, why would one need one?? Any thoughts?

[watching&waiting]

First off you will never stop someone from killing others if that is what they want to do. The fact that this and several others used guns is a good thing not a bad thing. Since these guys were determined to do this and die in the action, they could have easily become suicide bombers as the makings of many very large scale explosives are posted all over the internet. Most of these guys hated jocks, so what would have happened if he wandered into a sports rally where large numbers of supporters were. You would definitely see a much higher casualty list and it would be targeted more towards who these people hate. Now if that happened would anyone be happier? I should think not. So before all the discussion and the hyperbola about guns and how we need to ban them, remember that most and again I will repeat most of Canada is wilderness and carrying a rifle or weapon is not something that is considered obseesive but rather a necessity of live. I live in the country of eastern Ont.. Here we have coyotes, bears and many other hunted species and I live 42 miles south of nations capital. We use guns for varmint control and to protect livestock etc.. Out west it is even more so as some animals are still capable of attacking man, and our north, is always carry a gun when you go out in the woods or tundra, it is a personal saftey issue and yes a semi automatic is best because not all people can be a crack shot. So before you and the other bleeding hearts start on banning guns rember that it is only a very small area of land that our cities are on that would even think about this.

[jdobbin]

What is the procedure now for buying a firearm?

[Riverwind]

What is the procedure now for buying a firearm?

Take an 8 hour course, get a criminal record check you are good to go.

Anyone who wants a passport must have somebody with an official position (i.e. something to lose) vouch for them. Why don't we require the same standard that for getting a gun? Seems to me that the Dawson shooter would have had a tough time getting someone to vouch for him.

[watching&waiting]

All applicants for a firearms acquistion cerificate must first take a gun safety course from a registered authority such as Gun Clubs hunters clubs etc. The course consists of the rules and laws and the safe storage of weapons, and how to safely handle weapons when in groups or alone. It also has a small kind of mental evaluation, but unless the person is really out of touch you can see the correct way to answer. The course then must pass a test given by in my case the local police firearms training officer and you must pass it before he will sign your certificate. You also must not have any criminal record and you need to produce your Birth certificate and other picture ID. Once you do all this you send in your application and they will send you FAC permit. From there you can go to a gun shop and you choose the gun or guns you would like, the shop will then check to make sure that you are the holder of the FAC and also register the weapons with the registry. You will need to come back a second time before you get the weapons because the FAC check takes a doy or so and registering another. In my case the gun shop owner says he always checks with local police to make sure there is nothing outstanding aginst the purchaser before completion of the deal.

Now while that is proably a lot you must remember that the FAC part is not done each time and you renew this every 5 years. The second part to me is probably the best and safest part, but as you saw it can be flawed. Also on this, the shooter in this had a hand gun which is a restricted weapon already and you need a second course and even more testing before that is given. In this case it to failed to stop him.

[jdobbin]

All applicants for a firearms acquistion cerificate must first take a gun safety course from a registered authority such as Gun Clubs hunters clubs etc. The course consists of the rules and laws and the safe storage of weapons, and how to safely handle weapons when in groups or alone. It also has a small kind of mental evaluation, but unless the person is really out of touch you can see the correct way to answer. The course then must pass a test given by in my case the local police firearms training officer and you must pass it before he will sign your certificate. You also must not have any criminal record and you need to produce your Birth certificate and other picture ID. Once you do all this you send in your application and they will send you FAC permit. From there you can go to a gun shop and you choose the gun or guns you would like, the shop will then check to make sure that you are the holder of the FAC and also register the weapons with the registry. You will need to come back a second time before you get the weapons because the FAC check takes a doy or so and registering another. In my case the gun shop owner says he always checks with local police to make sure there is nothing outstanding aginst the purchaser before completion of the deal.

Now while that is proably a lot you must remember that the FAC part is not done each time and you renew this every 5 years. The second part to me is probably the best and safest part, but as you saw it can be flawed. Also on this, the shooter in this had a hand gun which is a restricted weapon already and you need a second course and even more testing before that is given. In this case it to failed to stop him.

It seems a lengthy enough of a process but as you've said, it can still let the occasional killer through. I don't know if any process could eliminate the threat.

Do you have any ideas as to how to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals and those who'd do harm to themselves and others?

[jdobbin]

Anyone who wants a passport must have somebody with an official position (i.e. something to lose) vouch for them. Why don't we require the same standard that for getting a gun? Seems to me that the Dawson shooter would have had a tough time getting someone to vouch for him.

If someone had known he was suffering depression, would that have stopped him with our present law from buying a gun?

[watching&waiting]

I do not see that branding someone who has depression from guns as it seems the older you get the easier it is to get depressed, but that does not mean you are a wacko. The fact that the Canadian military had rejected this guy due to not being suitable for the military, should have been a big red flag on things. The fact then that he was deeply involved with weapons and even had a restricted weapons certificate, is something I think as hind sight was more then enough to flag him. But again 99.999% of the time this is not a problem.

I live in rural area and rifles to me are needed for varmint control etc.. I use them correctly and store them in the gun safe when not in use. That to me is not a problem. But I get mad when people start talking about banning these. But that does not mean I would load up and go shooting them because the disagree with me. I really do not see anyone being able to look inside a person and say this one is bad news and this one is not. The fact that convicted criminals can not legally have guns is already there. But since these guys are criminals they do not follow the law any way, so how do you stop that. Maybe really harsh sentences will do it, but that is a guess. There is just too many variables to be able to get a steadfast answer to the question.

[jdobbin]

I don't see banning as a solution either.

I didn't think the registry was the way to go either.

When the initial debate on the registry was made, I thought it would have been a whole lot easier for gun owners to simply have the guns they owned recorded on their firearms certificate which they carried with them.

[Canuck E Stan]

So let's have some NEW ideas to try to stop what just happen in Montreal again.

How about a system similar to a pilot's license. More hours of practice,safety training extended for a longer period of time...let's say every couple of months for a year.This should enable some time for a background check by the authorities.Then a revisit every two years and another background check.If the individual uses it for a shooting range and doesn't use the range or hunting for three years,he must start or get rid of the gun and prove that he has sold it.Collector guns must somehow be disenabled and prevented from firing. Make it tough.......but then you got the Saturday night specials......tougher jail times? Just some ideas.

[ClearWest]

I think that may instead of registering the gun, PEOPLE should be registered and perhaps see a mental health doctor yearly. After all the saying is "guns don't kill people, people do!"

I don't want to be kept in check by government officials.

also, semi-automatics should be ban from the public, why would one need one?? Any thoughts?

I agree that semi-automatics probably do much more bad than good. But then again, so do a lot of things.

Why would one need alcohol? That statistically causes much more death and injury than semi-automatics do, at least in this part of the world. Should we consider banning that from the public?

That may be a stretch, and of course I don't advocate prohibition. But it offers something to think about. It may be risky when semi-automatics are in public hands. But does that mean they should be banned? It's also risky to have alcohol in the hands of the public. Check out the statistics.

[B. Max]

When anyone talks about gun control and the registering of guns, alot of people say they don't work. So let's have some NEW ideas to try to stop what just happen in Montreal again. I think that may instead of registering the gun, PEOPLE should be registered and perhaps see a mental health doctor yearly. After all the saying is "guns don't kill people, people do!" also, semi-automatics should be ban from the public, why would one need one?? Any thoughts?

There are millions of semi auto's in the country. People are not not going to give them up and throw away their hard earned dollars because of the liberal crackpot created society of today. What are you going to do the next time somebody shoots people with a lever action gun. Ban them too.

[geoffrey]

When the initial debate on the registry was made, I thought it would have been a whole lot easier for gun owners to simply have the guns they owned recorded on their firearms certificate which they carried with them.

Some collectors own many hundreds of guns. Not practical.

also, semi-automatics should be ban from the public, why would one need one?? Any thoughts?

Semi-automatics are no more risk than any other firearm out there. Sure, mostly the 'wussy' hunters use them, at least that what the folks I go hunting with would call them, as they have a lower recoil and you can pretty much be blind as you'll get a few shots in, but hey, if the person that owns them isn't a risk, then the gun isn't a risk. If the guy is loony, I don't see the difference in a muzzleloader or a semi-auto, besides the bodycount. I think the idea should be to prevent gun crime outright.

--

My solution to gun crime, and sure, it wouldn't have caught this loony... you get caught with a loaded firearm in your car, or possession not in use of hunting or target shooting, you go to jail for life.

Most gun violence in this country is gang members shooting each other. They all get caught and released with little consequence. This needs to end. The real threat is from our fear of imposing real sentences on these hooligans.

[Hicksey]

All applicants for a firearms acquistion cerificate must first take a gun safety course from a registered authority such as Gun Clubs hunters clubs etc. The course consists of the rules and laws and the safe storage of weapons, and how to safely handle weapons when in groups or alone. It also has a small kind of mental evaluation, but unless the person is really out of touch you can see the correct way to answer. The course then must pass a test given by in my case the local police firearms training officer and you must pass it before he will sign your certificate. You also must not have any criminal record and you need to produce your Birth certificate and other picture ID. Once you do all this you send in your application and they will send you FAC permit. From there you can go to a gun shop and you choose the gun or guns you would like, the shop will then check to make sure that you are the holder of the FAC and also register the weapons with the registry. You will need to come back a second time before you get the weapons because the FAC check takes a doy or so and registering another. In my case the gun shop owner says he always checks with local police to make sure there is nothing outstanding aginst the purchaser before completion of the deal.

Now while that is proably a lot you must remember that the FAC part is not done each time and you renew this every 5 years. The second part to me is probably the best and safest part, but as you saw it can be flawed. Also on this, the shooter in this had a hand gun which is a restricted weapon already and you need a second course and even more testing before that is given. In this case it to failed to stop him.

It seems a lengthy enough of a process but as you've said, it can still let the occasional killer through. I don't know if any process could eliminate the threat.

Do you have any ideas as to how to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals and those who'd do harm to themselves and others?

Regardless of how vigilant you are, he who desires to kill will find a way if he wants it bad enough. The Montreal incident was an anomaly. One will get through now and then.

Gun control functions more as a way to curb gun violence in the home. It effectively lowers the rate of family members shooting each other by accident or on purpose if the firearms are stored properly.

Because the guns that criminals use to commit crimes are largely unregistered weapons, anything short of house to house searches daily will not root out enough of them to make a difference. The best we can do is restrict their further use by restricting the freedom of their users as long as possible. If that doesn't make us safer by acting as an effective deterrent, at least one less criminal in our midst will.

[Borg]

What is the procedure now for buying a firearm?

I once offered Rex Murphy a thousand bucks towards the charity of his choice if he could legally purchase a hand gun and legally transport it to his house for 24 hours - then legally take it to the range and legally fire ONE round out of this same firearm and then leagally transport it back to his residence. He had to do this in under 12 months and he was not to use any professional contacts or assistance from friends in the know.

Oh - did I mention he also had to legally transport it to his local police station first? Yup that is always required. There is much, much, much more - including getting the one day only transport permit - but this is not the time or the place. Paper work ........

His producer refused to allow the challenge to go forward because he knew ir could not happen.

Fill out the forms, get the license, get the permits, get the firearm home and get the ammunition. It is not easy and it is not simple. There are so many unlinked rules and procedures.

Do it all legally.

If you are a newbie and have no one to guide you through the hoops you will not legally buy a long gun in under 6 months. A hand gun in under a year and you have done well.

Semi's are no more dangerous than singles - a good operator can put out the rounds in a single as fast or faster than a newbie with a semi - but those who do not know do not understand and therefore fear the terminology. Only someone who lacks experience or knowledge even brings the topic up.

Check out Stats Can - doctors - under "Medical Misadventure" kill more people annually than most serious diseases in Canada.

Registration is a joke. Ghost guns increase every year - move and the registration goes invalid. Die and the executor has one year to dispose of the firearm - they are usually given away to family. Lots more. Check out www.nfa.ca if you even think for a second registration helps. You will see how it fails on a daily basis. Small arms have been registered since the mid 30's and it has not stopped crime.

There is no legislating against insanity. Carry a multi tool in the UK and you now get charged with a criminal offense. It has a blade.

I could go on - but only those who would be interested would read - the remainder will simply argue I am one of those "bad people".

Usually those who have never been associated with firearms are the folks who promote registration. The rest of us just get on with our lives.

An armed society is a polite society.

Borg

[jdobbin]

I once offered Rex Murphy a thousand bucks towards the charity of his choice if he could legally purchase a hand gun and legally transport it to his house for 24 hours - then legally take it to the range and legally fire ONE round out of this same firearm.

His producer refused to allow the challenge to go forward because he knew ir could not happen.

Fill out the forms, get the license, get the permits, get the firearm home and get the ammunition.

Do it all legally.

If you are a newbie and have no one to guide you through the hoops you will not buy a long gun in under 6 months. A hand gun in under a year and you have done well.

I was never in favour of the gun registry when it came out. I was more concerned about how to keep illegal guns out of the country.

[geoffrey]

I was never in favour of the gun registry when it came out. I was more concerned about how to keep illegal guns out of the country.

Good to see the sense in your opinion jdobbin. I take it one step further. I was more concerned in keeping criminals out of society. Those that murder, use guns in crimes, ect., rarely are on their first offense.