Oh that crazy Harper!

[Shakeyhands]

Well so much for openess and accountability... if we can't win something that I challenged the house to vote down... well we just won't do it! Bah.. we'll cross that bridge when we come to it..

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/07...1712009-cp.html

Posted Sun Media purposely, hence no bias..

[geoffrey]

That's what happens when politicans think they are more powerful or have more influence than business.

[Leader Circle]

Well so much for openess and accountability... if we can't win something that I challenged the house to vote down... well we just won't do it! Bah.. we'll cross that bridge when we come to it..

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/07...1712009-cp.html

Posted Sun Media purposely, hence no bias..

Not sure exactly the point you are trying to get across???

They tried to bring a deal to help Canadians and all it got was complaints and criticism. What is better, settle now or go back to the drawing board, spending oodles more money???

If they won't agree, the deal is dead, wtf is he supposed to do?

You just can't please anybody these days???

[Shakeyhands]

well, my point was exactly that, it was a poor deal, that in reality was nothing more than knuckling under to US interests and they realized (almost too late) that it won't float. So much for the bravado of Steve saying he'd make it a confidence vote... He ended up looking foolish on this one... thats what.. two or is it three in a row?

[Guest Warwick Green]

That's what happens when politicans think they are more powerful or have more influence than business.

If the deal is rejected then it's more litigation. At least the lawyers will make a bundle.

[Topaz]

Canada needs to thin out the exports that goes to the US and market them more to other countries that will deal fairly. The US has problems with every country in the world, they HAVE to win on every challenge they encounter, no bother, if they know they are wrong! This is become more apparent, since Bush has appeared. I guess when daddy is a member of the Carlyle Group which is one the one largest PRIVATE investment companies in the US if not the world. This investment club has investment in EVERYTHING! It also holds Canadian companies and financial institutions. They also don't like people talking about them.

[Figleaf]

.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Figleaf

[saga]

That's what happens when politicans think they are more powerful or have more influence than business.

If the deal is rejected then it's more litigation. At least the lawyers will make a bundle.

Amazing, isn't it, how Harper can take humiliation and political setbacks dished out at the hands of Bush, and yet still, like a loyal hound pant at the president's heel.

It's a sad thing when our country's leader prefers the interests of another nation over his own.

.

Yes an it is even sadder when our national government consists of nothing but this guy!!

Democracy depends on discourse, and he will not let OUR representatives talk to us!!!

Bizarre ... the short lived dictatorship of Stephen Harper ... Humpty dumpty Harper ...

[Argus]

That's what happens when politicans think they are more powerful or have more influence than business.

If the deal is rejected then it's more litigation. At least the lawyers will make a bundle.

Amazing, isn't it, how Harper can take humiliation and political setbacks dished out at the hands of Bush, and yet still, like a loyal hound pant at the president's heel.

It's a sad thing when our country's leader prefers the interests of another nation over his own.

That is nothing but political spittle.

The deal was the best they were going to get, and is a good one in recognition of all the competing interests involved. None of the complaints I've seen are more than nitpicking, or the wierdassed belief from self-righteous people that a "negotiation" means "I get 100% of what I want, and those evil people I'm negotiating with get nothing". The only real loser is the US consumer. A lot of the complaints from industry are mere posturing designed to pressure a minority government into additional writeoffs and refunds. I think what this article is is a shot across the bows to them - you want to keep whining, fine, we'll scrap it and you can go on paying for the next ten years of litigation.

[Figleaf]

[

Edited July 21, 2007 by Figleaf

[geoffrey]

The deal was the best they were going to get, ...

And you don't find that a problem, given that the "deal" amounted to a complete sell-out of Canada's several trade tribunal victories?

Sometimes the things you righties come up with are simply asstounding.

Obviously you haven't spent much time at a negotiating table. Agreements are based on compromise, if you think the U.S. was going to cede to all our demands you are simply naive. We had to give a little to get a little. It was the best agreement we'll get.

...the wierdassed belief from self-righteous people that a "negotiation" means "I get 100% of what I want, and those evil people I'm negotiating with get nothing".

A negotiation is not appropriate where one side is right and the other wrong.

Says who? NAFTA or the WTO? Canada is in the wrong clearly, just less so than the US. That's why the deal was weighted more favourably to our side.

The only real loser is the US consumer.

You don't regard the sacrifice of billions in illegal duties collected as a loss? You don't regard the ruination of the principles of NAFTA as a loss?

Illegal says who? The WTO has said repeatedly that Canadian illegaly subsidizes it's lumber industry through ridiculously low stumpage fees... which it does. The duties were too harsh, but some duties are justified.

[Leader Circle]

The deal was the best they were going to get, ...

And you don't find that a problem, given that the "deal" amounted to a complete sell-out of Canada's several trade tribunal victories?

Sometimes the things you righties come up with are simply asstounding.

Obviously you haven't spent much time at a negotiating table. Agreements are based on compromise, if you think the U.S. was going to cede to all our demands you are simply naive. We had to give a little to get a little. It was the best agreement we'll get.

...the wierdassed belief from self-righteous people that a "negotiation" means "I get 100% of what I want, and those evil people I'm negotiating with get nothing".

A negotiation is not appropriate where one side is right and the other wrong.

Says who? NAFTA or the WTO? Canada is in the wrong clearly, just less so than the US. That's why the deal was weighted more favourably to our side.

The only real loser is the US consumer.

You don't regard the sacrifice of billions in illegal duties collected as a loss? You don't regard the ruination of the principles of NAFTA as a loss?

Illegal says who? The WTO has said repeatedly that Canadian illegaly subsidizes it's lumber industry through ridiculously low stumpage fees... which it does. The duties were too harsh, but some duties are justified.

The sad thing here is Geoffrey, even if Harper & Emerson had gotten MORE than the 5 billion and got our legal fees covered and a few billion to boot, these damn Harper haters would find a problem with the deal. They cannot be pleased. Shakey being left handed, has a position of power in his beliefs, if this deal fails to make it to a vote, because of the minority situation, it automatically becomes a matter of Harper not being accountable to Canadians. Regardless of whether it was a good or bad deal, everytime the opposition decides to cause havoc, they can stop many of Harper's initiatives by banding together.

The ideal situation in a lefty's mind is, the lumber deal NEVER gets resolved. It just gives them more reason to hate Bush & Harper and that seems to be their main goal in life. The other thing is, if no deal for lumber companies comes through, then they get there other goal satisfied, to ruin big business and make them dependant on subsidies, like many of their own. They can pander to these same people and tell them(for votes) if that had have been our people brokering the deal, we would have gotten a better deal, when most probably prefer to see the big lumber boys get nothing and they save a few more trees that they all can hug!!! LOL

[geoffrey]

Leader Circle,

As a non-partisan conservative, I see this slightly differently. I support the agreement, I think it's a good deal for Canadians and Canadian producers and it's a just compromise between the real aspects of the dispute.

I do have a problem with Harper announcing that he will fight the next election on this and when poll numbers and support fall a little, he retracts that statement. It isn't being accountable to the people to do that, and I voted for Harper (directly) to change that. I do have an issue with the political expediency of it all.

If he says he's prepared to fight an election on it, I expect him to do so. He was doing so well with telling the truth and being ethical up until now. He was earning my vote again. But the very firm stance on Israel/Lebanon crisis and this latest bungling, I am worried.

I await further tax cuts to buy my vote instead.

[Leader Circle]

Leader Circle,

As a non-partisan conservative, I see this slightly differently. I support the agreement, I think it's a good deal for Canadians and Canadian producers and it's a just compromise between the real aspects of the dispute.

I do have a problem with Harper announcing that he will fight the next election on this and when poll numbers and support fall a little, he retracts that statement. It isn't being accountable to the people to do that, and I voted for Harper (directly) to change that. I do have an issue with the political expediency of it all.

If he says he's prepared to fight an election on it, I expect him to do so. He was doing so well with telling the truth and being ethical up until now. He was earning my vote again. But the very firm stance on Israel/Lebanon crisis and this latest bungling, I am worried.

I await further tax cuts to buy my vote instead.

Would it not be tempting the oppostion to topple the government over an issue Harper & Emerson intends to sell to them & the rest of Canadians? Canadians do not want another election on this and I look at it as, Harper is not doing an about face on the lumber, he is saving us a lot of hassle by trying to negotiate with the opposition to find a smooth transition of this deal and get it DONE. I agree, the deal appears to be a good one for Canadians and even though there were losses, the US did lose more out of the deal.

The opposition does not want to concede this, because THEIR way is the best way.(even if it has not been presented!) Where are the BETTER deals all these critics seem to think exist? From a Liberal government who had poor relations with the US? From the car salesman of an NDP leader who literally has zero chance of EVER being PM? The reality of all this is, if a better deal is out there, it has yet to present itself and while the lumber boys wait & litigate the current deal will effectively disappear and the lawyer bills will not.

I am with you on the tax cuts!

[Figleaf]

Facts, gentlemen, please.

Canada has won all the relevant tribunal rulings.

[saga]

Regardless of whether it was a good or bad deal, everytime the opposition decides to cause havoc, they can stop many of Harper's initiatives by banding together.

They can pander to these same people and tell them(for votes) if that had have been our people brokering the deal, we would have gotten a better deal, when most probably prefer to see the big lumber boys get nothing and they save a few more trees that they all can hug!!! LOL

Like many Canadians, I gave Harper the benefit of the doubt ... which he quickly lost when he set himself up as a dictator ... the only one allowed to speak. Then he repeatedly showed hisw petulance and displayed that he has no idea how to GOVERN, but he only knows how to CAMPAIGN for election by pandering only to his financial supporters ...

Harper would only be comfortable with sole and unquestioned power. He has NO IDEA how to provide good democratic governance!!

...so I call him His Harpiness ...

... and YES we could use some more trees to hug ... and to help us breathe ...!!! (duh) ... rampant corporate stripping of Canadas resources will meet the wall of Indigenous resistance!!

[Leader Circle]

Regardless of whether it was a good or bad deal, everytime the opposition decides to cause havoc, they can stop many of Harper's initiatives by banding together.

They can pander to these same people and tell them(for votes) if that had have been our people brokering the deal, we would have gotten a better deal, when most probably prefer to see the big lumber boys get nothing and they save a few more trees that they all can hug!!! LOL

Like many Canadians, I gave Harper the benefit of the doubt ... which he quickly lost when he set himself up as a dictator ... the only one allowed to speak. Then he repeatedly showed hisw petulance and displayed that he has no idea how to GOVERN, but he only knows how to CAMPAIGN for election by pandering only to his financial supporters ...

Harper would only be comfortable with sole and unquestioned power. He has NO IDEA how to provide good democratic governance!!

...so I call him His Harpiness ...

... and YES we could use some more trees to hug ... and to help us breathe ...!!! (duh) ... rampant corporate stripping of Canadas resources will meet the wall of Indigenous resistance!!

So Basically you are saying you would prefer NO DEAL with the US on the lumber dispute?

Typical.....