In 1947 Israelis kidnaped,executed 2 British sergeants

[injusticebuster]

In February of 1944, under the new leadership of Menachem Begin, Irgun resumed hostilities against the British authorities. The purpose of these attacks was to increase the cost of British mandatory rule and influence British public opinion so as to encourage British withdrawal. It included attacks on prominent symbols of the British administration, including the British military, police, and civil headquarters at the King David Hotel and the British prison in Acre. Although these attacks were largely successful, several Irgun operatives were captured, convicted, and hanged. Refusing to accept the jurisdiction of the British courts, those accused refused to defend themselves. The Irgun leadership ultimately responded to these executions by hanging two British sergeants, which effectively brought the executions to an end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

[Machinations]

In February of 1944, under the new leadership of Menachem Begin, Irgun resumed hostilities against the British authorities. The purpose of these attacks was to increase the cost of British mandatory rule and influence British public opinion so as to encourage British withdrawal. It included attacks on prominent symbols of the British administration, including the British military, police, and civil headquarters at the King David Hotel and the British prison in Acre. Although these attacks were largely successful, several Irgun operatives were captured, convicted, and hanged. Refusing to accept the jurisdiction of the British courts, those accused refused to defend themselves. The Irgun leadership ultimately responded to these executions by hanging two British sergeants, which effectively brought the executions to an end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

Yeah, this is some of the 'interesting' history I have been mentioning.

Hell, half the people that spout off here seem to believe Israel has existed as a country since biblical times.

People would do well by a little reading - you might even be surprised. Especially when you read accounts of Jewish terrorism during the British Mandate under the auspices of the Irgun (which was disbanded, however many Israeli politicians were former members). These included, but were no means limited to:

-Bombing British jails and murdering British soldiers

-Bombings of civilian buildings

-Poisoning of village water supplies

-Kidnappings and beatings

People should try reading a bit before forming opinions on a complex subject. Helps keep you from looking like a fool.

[Rue]

I studied at Hebew University of Jerusalem and was taught history by a former member of Irgun who was a survivor of Aushwitz. At no time did this man feel good about what he did and was riddled with guilt.

Its easy to refer to the Irgun and infer that since they engaged in terrorism, somehow its o.k. for the Palestinians do engage in terrorism.

The point missed is that the vast majority of Jews struggling for a homeland, denounced the Irgun tactics and the Israel Defence Force's origins were precisely because its members did not want to target civilians.

Here is also the true irony. The same people who try suggest Palestinians now are faced with what the Jews were faced during and after the holocaust are completely ignorant and selective of history.

Jews had nowhere to go. Palestinians have always had the rest of the Arab world to go to. Just like the Europeans did not want Jews, before, during and after the holocaust because of their wide spread anti-semitism. What is the Arab world's excuse for turning its back on its own Muslims and Arabs?

The answer is simple-the Arab League deliberately chose to leave Palestinians stateless so they could be a pawn in its desire to prevent a Jewish state.

To equate the deliberate political manouver the Arab League chose to do with Palestinians is not and has no similiarities to the European inability to take in and let Jews live in peace.

That said whether it was Irgun, or any other terrorist group, terrorism is never and can never be something we choose.

Israel is not proud of its past terrorist activities and openly laments the past.

[Machinations]

I studied at Hebew University of Jerusalem and was taught history by a former member of Irgun who was a survivor of Aushwitz. At no time did this man feel good about what he did and was riddled with guilt.

Its easy to refer to the Irgun and infer that since they engaged in terrorism, somehow its o.k. for the Palestinians do engage in terrorism.

Im not talking moral equivalence here. I'm mostly speaking to the vast gulf between how Westerners see the conflict and how scholars and others do. There is little to no understanding here of the history, unlike in Israel.

The point missed is that the vast majority of Jews struggling for a homeland, denounced the Irgun tactics and the Israel Defence Force's origins were precisely because its members did not want to target civilians.

Many Israelis are against the actions in Lebanon and know the only route to peace is giving the Palestinians some land.

Here is also the true irony. The same people who try suggest Palestinians now are faced with what the Jews were faced during and after the holocaust are completely ignorant and selective of history.

They suggest it - because that is what it is - are they not ghettos? Do the Palestinians not have loudspeakers erected by Israelis blasting orders in the middle of their streets? Is the Occupied Territory not a mish-mash of checkpoints? Are there not Israeli watchtowers with snipers posted around each Palestinian area?

Jews had nowhere to go. Palestinians have always had the rest of the Arab world to go to. Just like the Europeans did not want Jews, before, during and after the holocaust because of their wide spread anti-semitism. What is the Arab world's excuse for turning its back on its own Muslims and Arabs?

As you know, the other Arab nations, and the rest of the world, would only accept so many of the several million refugees. Call us racist if you will, but it appears Israel does not wish to absorb them either. Many, many displaced Palestinians DO live in Lebanon, Oman, Syria, Kuwait, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Yemen and, yes, Canada and many other places. But we're talking A LOT of displaced people. Millions.

The answer is simple-the Arab League deliberately chose to leave Palestinians stateless so they could be a pawn in its desire to prevent a Jewish state.

No, Israel chose to keep the Occupied Territories in contradiction of a standing UN resolution. The intention is a gradual process of envelopment into Greater Israel. If you lived there, you know this. Read Haa'retz?

To equate the deliberate political manouver the Arab League chose to do with Palestinians is not and has no similiarities to the European inability to take in and let Jews live in peace.

I'm comparing the conditions in the Polish ghettos of Warsaw (created by the Nazis) to the conditions in the Palestinian ghettos of Gaza and the West Bank.

That said whether it was Irgun, or any other terrorist group, terrorism is never and can never be something we choose.

We agree on one thing.

Israel is not proud of its past terrorist activities and openly laments the past.

Now if only Israel would let the rest of the world learn about this without calling anyone who should mention it an 'anti-semite'. Because that charge is patently absurd, the way it is lobbied about - it dilutes the real meaning of anti-semitism, which is a real and vile threat. Conflating honest criticism and education with hatred allows the real bad guys to come into their own, so to speak.

[Shuriken]

The only difference between Israel and the Palestinians is that the Iraeli's haven't been strapping bombs to their citizens and blowing up buses.

Neither really deserve states, but for now I'll go with the one that has the slight moral edge.

[Machinations]

The only difference between Israel and the Palestinians is that the Iraeli's haven't been strapping bombs to their citizens and blowing up buses.

Neither really deserve states, but for now I'll go with the one that has the slight moral edge.

Because its better to kill civilians with tanks, bullets and cruise missiles?

The man whose house collapsed on his family, killing all - is he immoral - did he get what he deserved? Clarify your comments for me. I fail to see this 'moral edge' of which you speak.

[Shuriken]

The only difference between Israel and the Palestinians is that the Iraeli's haven't been strapping bombs to their citizens and blowing up buses.

Neither really deserve states, but for now I'll go with the one that has the slight moral edge.

Because its better to kill civilians with tanks, bullets and cruise missiles?

The man whose house collapsed on his family, killing all - is he immoral - did he get what he deserved? Clarify your comments for me. I fail to see this 'moral edge' of which you speak.

The Israeli bombs are killing civilians as collateral damage, not as the targets. This gives them a slight moral edge over the willful targeting of civillians. You seem to have ignored the part of my post where I said neither deserves to exist as a state. A much better solution would be to give the land to Ethiopia or the Republic of China.

[Machinations]

A much better solution would be to give the land to Ethiopia or the Republic of China.

Yes, but the supercomputers are estimating the probability of this event occuring as 0.0000000000000000001%

with a margin of error of +/- 0.0000000000000000001%.

If you read some other threads, I suggest Israel is not trying to avoid civilian casualties nearly as much as CNN would have you believe. I further posit that this war is intended to remind Lebanese of the consequences of allowing Hezbollah to become invested in the political process. I can only hope the supercomputers of the Mossad have already calculated the chance of igniting a broader religious conflict as insignificant.

[Shuriken]

A much better solution would be to give the land to Ethiopia or the Republic of China.

Yes, but the supercomputers are estimating the probability of this event occuring as 0.0000000000000000001%

with a margin of error of +/- 0.0000000000000000001%.

My point was not to show reality, but to show how little I support either side.

If you read some other threads, I suggest Israel is not trying to avoid civilian casualties nearly as much as CNN would have you believe.

I don't watch CNN. Sometimes I watch Global or Newsworld, but it's mostly there for background noise. I don't trust the media, and the media doesn't trust me. We seem happy with this arrangement.

I further posit that this war is intended to remind Lebanese of the consequences of allowing Hezbollah to become invested in the political process. I can only hope the supercomputers of the Mossad have already calculated the chance of igniting a broader religious conflict as insignificant.

I am sure Israel is quite aware of what they are doing. The longer this goes on, the less hope of Lebanon avoiding another civil war. I doubt the Christian and mainstream Sunni population (The majority) are going to put up with being bombed for long because of an Iranian puppet. Even those who would like to see Israel pushed into the sea don't want to feel the the brunt of Israel's kick.

[lost&outofcontrol]

The point missed is that the vast majority of Jews struggling for a homeland, denounced the Irgun tactics and the Israel Defence Force's origins were precisely because its members did not want to target civilians.

CNN link. Of course the story is under the caption - " Rockets strike Haifa, Israeli towns", you just have to forget that the civilian deaths on the Lebanese side outnumber the Israeli side by 20 to 1.

Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora put the death toll higher -- at more than 300 -- and said the wounded numbered about 1,000. while on the Isreali sidce 34 are dead (15 civilians and 19 soldiers)

bbc link

...more than 55 bridges had been destroyed, and that Israeli forces had also targeted ambulances and medical convoys.

About 500,000 people are believed to have been internally displaced by the conflict.

If they are not targeting civilians then what, pray tell, are they doing?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

You have terrorists living amonst civilians. You strike at the terrorists and there is collateral damage, that is a fact. That is the problem isn't it. The terrorists know this and don't exactly setup shop in non-populated areas because of it. The civilians are cover for them, they use this very effectively as a political tool.

Look at Iraq today and Ireland 20 years ago. There are big differences in the two nations but terrorism exists wherever people have political issues with the authorities. Terrorism is a political tool, not a military one. In Ireland terrorism ended with political independence, as it will in Iraq. As long as there is a perception of inequity there is fuel for terrorism. All that is needed is a few zealots with violent intentions to resolve political problems. Terrorism is a crime, nothing more and nothing less.

With all due respect this latest conflict has nothing to do with anything less than the preservation of national identity, from each side. Both believe they are right. The simple truth is that Israel has no choice in attempting to prevent terrorism. They must protect their citizen. When it comes down to the crunch, their citizens are more important than others to them. Would you have your nation, wherever it is, react in any other way?

[Machinations]

With all due respect this latest conflict has nothing to do with anything less than the preservation of national identity, from each side. Both believe they are right. The simple truth is that Israel has no choice in attempting to prevent terrorism. They must protect their citizen. When it comes down to the crunch, their citizens are more important than others to them. Would you have your nation, wherever it is, react in any other way?

Do you really believe this? Honestly, thats rather naive.

It seems to many, including myself, that Israel is engaged in a collective punishment of Lebanese for allowing Hezbollah to become invested in the political process. The idea here is to make Lebanese fear Hezbollah as much as they do Israel - make them fear the results of their own elections.

I mean, they are targeting medical convoys - this seems like state-sponsored terrorism to me. They have also been dropping pamphlets from warplanes depicting Hezbollah as a cobra threatening to destroy Lebanon.

[Rue]

" Do the Palestinians not have loudspeakers erected by Israelis blasting orders in the middle of their streets? Is the Occupied Territory not a mish-mash of checkpoints? Are there not Israeli watchtowers with snipers posted around each Palestinian area?"

Of course. This is because of the choice of terrorists to live within Palestinian's civilian population and hide there before, during and after attacks. And for that matter, Israelis also live with the same mish-mash of check-points, security measures and loud-speakers. It is not one-sided.

"As you know, the other Arab nations, and the rest of the world, would only accept so many of the several million refugees."

The Arab League refused to accept ANY Palestinians as citizens.

"Call us racist if you will, but it appears Israel does not wish to absorb them either."

Israel is a tiny nation. It unlike the Arab world, has no physical room to absorb Palestinians. And why would it take in people that do not recognize the right for Jews to have a jewish state as Muslims choose to have a Muslim state? Why the selectivity?

Has any Arab country taken in Jews and offered them equal citizenship? Absolutely not. The Muslim world has practiced a form of apartheid against Jews and Christians called Dhimmitude for centuries.

More to the point, Israel has more Muslim Israels by a far larger ration something like 1000% higher then the no. of Jews living in the Muslim world.

"Many, many displaced Palestinians DO live in Lebanon, Oman, Syria, Kuwait, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Yemen and, yes, Canada and many other places. But we're talking A LOT of displaced people. Millions."

Yes and they are discriminated against by their fellow Arabs, refused citizenship and treated by their Arab counterparts as Jews were treated by Europeans prior to and culminating in the holocaust. This is the irony.

"No, Israel chose to keep the Occupied Territories in contradiction of a standing UN resolution. The intention is a gradual process of envelopment into Greater Israel. If you lived there, you know this. Read Haa'retz?"

Again your analysis of this situation is selective and a misrepresentation. Israel did not choose to keep "occupied territories". Let us be completely accurate. The border of Israel between 1949 and 1967 was a de facto border established by a war. In fact the original UN declaration proposed two small enclaves one for Muslims one for Jews in Palestine, both land-locked.

The Arab League then chose to reject this UN declaration, and made it clear they would either kill all Jews in Palestine or force them backt o Europe. The border Israel established in 1949 and that existed until 1967 was never established by law. De facto borders are not legally recognized until a long period of no contestation and acceptance by all sides that never happened.

In fact the West bank was illegally seized by Jordan in 1949 and was never part of Jordan or trans-Jordan and was illegally seized by Jordan until Israel went in after the 1967 war.

You say Israel chose to heep the occupied territories. It didn't choose. The choice was imposed upon it by the continued refusal of the entire Arab League to recognize the 1967 borders and to refuse to disarm terrorist cells on Israel's borders.

Israel was forced to occupy these territories to keep buffer zones to keep terrorist cells off their borders. Your depiction of events is ridiculously selective.

It is also a complete and utter misrepesentation to state Israel had a policy to expand its borders and if you read Haaretz or anything else you would know the decision to place settlement posts in so called "occupied territories " was a deliberate tactic to try create outposts to prevent terrorist attacks and it failed. This is precisely why Israel is now unilaterally moving towards building large security walls and dismantling such settlement sites. It is absolutely incorrect to believe that the Israeli government or military wants to occupy zones hostile to Jewish Israelis- what it wants to do is completely avoid Arabs of any kind and create no man zones or buffer zones.

"I'm comparing the conditions in the Polish ghettos of Warsaw (created by the Nazis) to the conditions in the Palestinian ghettos of Gaza and the West Bank."

It is an odious and ignorant comparison and openly insulting to Jews and I will tell you why. The Jews in Warsaw unlike the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, had nowhere to go. The rest of Europe would not take them! They knew they would die and they sat in silence!

Today Canada, and many other nations can and does accept Palestinians as civilians. The entire Arab world could absorb all Palestinians and finance their assimilation into Muslim society. It chooses not to. To equate the refusal of the Arab world to absorb its Palestinians to the European refusal to save and let Jews live in peace makes a mockery of Jewish suffering and history and attempts to compare two completely different events of history. What I am saying quite clearly is that Palestinians have choices the Jews never had.

However I do admit openly as do most Israelis that Palestinians live in open hell with no hope and in horrid conditions. This is the tragic consequence of its terrorist leaders who refuse to coexist with Israel.

And just in case you do not understand, there was a time when the PLO and Israel Defence Force had an unwritten alliance and co-existed and the Israeli military brought education and medical supplies and water to Palestinians. This ended because of fundamentalist Muslim terrorist cells taking over and killing off or ridding Palestinian society of anyone who cared to work in alliance with Israelis.

"Now if only Israel would let the rest of the world learn about this without calling anyone who should mention it an 'anti-semite'. Because that charge is patently absurd, the way it is lobbied about - it dilutes the real meaning of anti-semitism, which is a real and vile threat. Conflating honest criticism and education with hatred allows the real bad guys to come into their own, so to speak."

Let's get something really clear. The typical Israel could care less what you or anyone else thinks about them and they are way past the point of caring what you think about them.

Yes there are a minority of a minority of Jewish people outside Israel who react to strongly when people criticize Israel no different then when Muslims cry out racism when people criticize arab extremism.

The fact is non Jews use attacks against the right for Jews to live in Israel and atacks against Israel as a vehicle to vent hatred against all Jews.

Hezbollah, Hamas, the Syrian and Iranian government and millions upon millions of Muslims openly practice anti-semitism, openly state they hate all Jews, consider all Jews the enemy and teach their children Hezbollah on its radio and t.v. stations openly broadcast anti-semitic shows depicting Jews as evil sub-humans to be wiped out. All across the Muslim world, its t.v. and radio stations and newspapers broadcast anti-semtiiism and do not differentiate between Jews and Israelis.

More to the point in the Christian or non Jewish world, the vast majority of you non Jews do not take the effort to understand the religious or spiritual meaning and connection between Jews and the soil called Erezt Israel and because you refuse to understand this link, are necessarily ignorant of the very thing that makes Jews want to live in a country called Israel.

Is it anti-semitic to criticize Israel? Not automatically but the moment you use criticism of Israel to set up a double standard of behaviour and infer Jews have to act differently then everyone else, and are not allowed the same rights as everyone else, then yes it necessarily evolves into anti-semitism particularly when ignorant generalizations are made about Zionism and the Jewish religious connection to the soil of the land in Eretz Israel.

The irony here is that for most of you who criticize Israel, you are Christian and simply take it for granted you are the majority and all institutions in Canada and Euorpe are Christian. You also have never lived in a world where another religion has openly taught its people that you are cursed and deserve to be killled and should either be killed or converted before the world can have any hope. You have never lived in a country in Europe or North America where the government said, Christians can't own land. In fact not satisfied with what you had, you had to invade, Africa, Asia and North America and kill off others and seize their land-and you want to lecture Israelis who are the descendants of true aboriginals from that land?

The closest people to what Israelis experience today are the Tibetans.

As for the plight of the Palestinians isn't the solution so damn obvious? Why beat around the bush and set up this double standard and depict Jews as being oppressors when the blood of Jews is on the hands of both Christians and Muslims from past history...why not look squarely in the eyes of the Arab world and ask them why they have chosen to embrace terrorism and refuse to co-exist not just with Israeli Jews, but Israeli Arabs, Hindus, Buddists, Bahaiis, Druze, or different sects within its own Muslim religion?

Why do you insist on suggesting it is Israel who has created this mess? Where is the culpability of the Arab world, and the Christians of Europe who for oevr 3000 years exterminated and hunted down and killed and tormented Jews.

No I will not roll over while you criticize Israel and play the intellectual game that it is not an attack against Jews of all kinds. It almost always becomes that way.

At least Stephen Harper now has the credibility to be able eventually to sit down with Israel and be taken seriously and be able to criticize them. He has earned their respect by unequivocally denouncing terrorism and supporting their right to exist. It is precisely why for that reason, downt he road he will have the goodwill to ask Israel to make concessions. He has credibility. But his counter-part Jaques Chirac who Jean Chretiens imitated and mimmicked in his Middle East approach? What credibility does this man have?

What did France do in Africa, Algeria, the Central African Republic,with its Foreign Legion, with is

shennanigans in its artificially created Tunisia and Lebanon? Does this man who represents a country full of blatant anti-semites and a country with a legacy of going out of its way to deport Jews to their death have the right to lecture Israel on not using proper restraint? This coming from a country that savagely occupied and terrorized so many colonies? This coming from a man who protects French multi-nationals who sold chemicals to Hussein to use to slaughter Kurds? This coming from a man whose military-industrial complex floods conflict zones with French weapons?

How about Putin? What a joke that is. This man tells the world its nobody's business how he will go after Chechen terrorists, but then in the same breath lectures Israel on going too far? How about China and its shining human rights treatment of Tibetans or its own Muslim nationals?

You want to criticize Israel and avoid anti-semitism, then use the same standard of criticism for all nations equally and don't question the right of Jews to believe in a religion where they feel as an expression to a promise they have with God they must live in Israel. It is that simple.

Me? I openly criticize much of Israel's policy because I am a Reform Jew and am totally against fundamentalism, but like most people who support the peace movement, we have no choices these days and can only hope moderate Palestinians and Muslims find the courage to embrace an alternative to terrorism and open their arms to us. Then and only then can we put all this violence to the side and try find a way to co-exist.

As for Canada, I am convinced Stephen Harper will do more to help achieve peace by being unapologetic about terrorism and supporting Israel then his predecessors who still think if they appease terrorists they will simply go away. They aint.

[Shuriken]

It seems to many, including myself, that Israel is engaged in a collective punishment of Lebanese for allowing Hezbollah to become invested in the political process. The idea here is to make Lebanese fear Hezbollah as much as they do Israel - make them fear the results of their own elections.

Congradulations on showing everyone that you have no idea what is going on in the middle-east.

[geoffrey]

The Israeli bombs are killing civilians as collateral damage, not as the targets. This gives them a slight moral edge over the willful targeting of civillians. You seem to have ignored the part of my post where I said neither deserves to exist as a state. A much better solution would be to give the land to Ethiopia or the Republic of China.

I'd generally agree except the collateral damage is considerably higher with Israeli's laser guided missles and exacting intelligence than with hooligans firing rockets across the border. What up?

The Americans were initially very effective in minimizing civilian casualties in Iraq, maybe the Israeli's could pick up an instruction manual from their defense suppliers.

Refering to Palestine... they've lost all crediability when a majority of people voted for violence by electing Hamas, I wouldn't object to Israel taking them out. Lebanon elected a government of peace, and is being punished even more for it. Unbelievable.

[Rue]

Well everyone knows I am have been advocating on behalf of Israel in these wonderful debates we have had the last week but I want to be even-handed. The Palestinians voted for Hamas primarily because the PLO was a corupt and spent force. Arafat and his stooges were typical of terrorists. They ran the Gaza and West Bank no differently then any organized criminal group. Arafat and his cronies made hundreds of millions and stashed it in Swiss bank acounts while their people starved. Arafat like all his other terrorist stooges used their alleged anti-Israel status as a cover to mask what they really were, thieves, murderers and people who would take the last drop of food from their own people.

I mean what a legacy it was when Arafat died from Aids, when his wife who lives in France on stolen, misappropriated Swiss bank accounts from money stolen from relief sent to Palestine, lectures the world on injustice. Does that pampered sow live in Gaza?

The Palestinians voted for Hamas because it was not corupt. Its members are fundamentalists and so far they have resisted stealing money and spending it on themselves.

As for voting for terrorists or people who want Israel exterminated, most Muslims in the Middle East do not have a problem with that. What the West does not understand because you do not travel in the Middle East and read its newspapers and listen to its tv and radio shows is that the vast majority of Muslims in the Middle East are fed daily, constant, anti-semitic messages calling for the death of all Jews and poryraying all Jews as evil monsters and infidel that need to be exterminated.

If you constantly teach your people from when they are born until when they are dead that all Jews are to be killed and hated, voting for a terrorist cell dedicated to the anhilitation of Israel is no big deal. The big deal is whether that cell is corupt or not.

I think its fair to say Hamas got elected not so much because they are terrorist but primarily because they weren't the PLO.

I do agree though that Palestinians must embrace non violent methods to express their political will and that until they do, they lack credibility and the only people their decision to embrace terrorism and reject moderation fools is idiots here in Canada and the West who haven't a clue what is going on and parrot what they think they know from reading the Toronto Star.

[Kindred]

And of course Jews dont hate Arabs, they have extended the hand of brotherhood to them - give me a break. The Jews are not innocent in any of this decades long conflict, and to suggest that the Lebanese should just move out and give up to their country is pretty unrealistic .. and ridiculous.

They were there first after all.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Being there first is no excuse for harbouring terrorists. These Hezbollah people are terrorists, that is a known fact. These terrorists do not focus on military engagments they operate on the basis of targeting civilians. What should the punishment for that be? Now what should the punishment be for harbouring a terrorist?

[geoffrey]

Being there first is no excuse for harbouring terrorists. These Hezbollah people are terrorists, that is a known fact. These terrorists do not focus on military engagments they operate on the basis of targeting civilians. What should the punishment for that be? Now what should the punishment be for harbouring a terrorist?

Kill Hezbollah, but you have no right to 'punish' those not involved. Hezbollah had 10% popular support, even fewer members.

[Machinations]

More to the point in the Christian or non Jewish world, the vast majority of you non Jews do not take the effort to understand the religious or spiritual meaning and connection between Jews and the soil called Erezt Israel and because you refuse to understand this link, are necessarily ignorant of the very thing that makes Jews want to live in a country called Israel.

This is what terrifies me the most. People like you are religious extremists, no different from jihadis. I dont care if your invisible superman wears pink ponytails or dances the macarena. I dont care if you think once you have 'Greater' Israel you're all going to grow crops 10 feet tall and you'll live extraordinary long lives. I simply do not care what superstitions drive your irrational belief and value systems. Do all of us goyim not matter?

You suggest that Israel has 'no room' to hold the people that live on it already - and then further go on to speculate that Arabs should not want to live in Israel. I question this, since Israel has plenty of room for new Jewish immigrants - and all the refugees living on Palestinian land seem to have room as well - if no freedom.

The fact is, we need to stop supporting Israel - a theocracy masquerading as a democracy. Then you religious fundies can have your little war, but without my tax dollars paying to kill children.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Being there first is no excuse for harbouring terrorists. These Hezbollah people are terrorists, that is a known fact. These terrorists do not focus on military engagments they operate on the basis of targeting civilians. What should the punishment for that be? Now what should the punishment be for harbouring a terrorist?

Kill Hezbollah, but you have no right to 'punish' those not involved. Hezbollah had 10% popular support, even fewer members.

So what should Israel do? Just roll over and spread their cheeks? I think not. An international border was crossed by members of an armed group of terrorists. They kidnapped and killed and returned to their own nation. Their government did nothing about this. They now daiy launch rockets accross that same border and their government still does nothing about this. There two groups at fault, the terrorists and the government that lets them operate in that nation.

Lets get real here for a minute. Governments have responsibility. I agree that innocent people are being killed on both sides of the border, but that simply can't be helped until the terrorists are removed. What do you think Israel should do?

[Machinations]

What do you think Israel should do?

Abide by standing UN resolutions and leave the Occupied Territories. This is the #1 recruiting tool of Islamic fundamentalists worldwide - and ESPECIALLY in Lebanon.