Dual Citizenship....an abuse of privilege?

[Kindred]

Argus I am willing to wager I have lived in Canada a helluva lot longer than you have, and paid a helluva lot more taxes than you have.

Are you too ignorant to realize we now live in a global economy and there are thousands and thousands of Canadians living and working overseas? And most of them are paying taxes on foreign income? And not using medical services or any other services those taxes pay for in Canada.

[MightyAC]

IN reading of all the "Canadians" in Lebanon, some 40,000 have dual citizenship but live only in Lebanon.

One has to wonder if getting a Canadian citizenship might be just "to easy".

It appears being Canadian has lots of "value" for those outside of Canada,maybe we should make it even more valuable by restricting it to being the only citizenship allowed.

Dual Citizenship

Unlike the law in effect in Canada up to 1977, the current Citizenship Act allows Canadian citizens to acquire a foreign nationality without automatically losing their Canadian citizenship.

The current act thus makes it possible to have two or more citizenships and allegiances at the same time for an indefinite period.

Since February 15, 1977, a Canadian citizen who acquires another nationality may retain Canadian citizenship.

I think we should go back to singular citizenship recognition.

If you want to be Canadian,then you must only be Canadian and renounce any other citizenship you may have.

If you believe in Canada then Canada comes first.

How do you feel about not allowing dual citizenship?

I think we have to rescue anybody with a Canadian passport in Lebanon that wants out, dual citizen or not. That being said I think it's a time to put an end to dual citizenships in Canada. People living and working abroad do not have to become a foreign dual citizen to do so...typically it's just done for tax purposes.

On this topic I also want to congratulate Garth Turner, my favourite MP - unfortunately not from my riding, for discussing politically sensitive issues like this one openly and honestly. The CPC often tries to shut him up but he is one of the few in the party to ignore party gag orders and actually embrace transparency. Anyway, some people have been giving him a hard time for openly discussing dual citizenships like we are here. I think he said it very well here.

I stick by my assertion that people who live permanently in other countries, where they pay taxes and have their own governments, should hardly expect taxpayers here to gladly fly them across the world. Even Canadian citizens who get lost in a national park in Alberta have to pay big money to be rescued.

[Kindred]

typically it's just done for tax purposes

The only way to avoid taxes is to declare yourself an Expat and to work in a country that doesnt have a tax agreement with Canada.

Typically its done because there are no jobs in Canada for professional people, and because they want the experience and education of living in other countries. Most people dont want to spend their entire lives rooted in one country and exposed to and knowledgable of only one country, one society, one point of view.

You can see the repurcussions of that on this forum.

[Kindred]

Politicians have been concerned about the "brain drain" for years, maybe they should take a look at the Income Tax people pay in Canada. It has one of the highest tax rates in the world, and unfortunately doesnt have the services to justify it. Not when compared to Scandanavian countries and other European countries, even countries in Asia provide better bang for your buck than Canada does.

People working overseas receive a "Foreign Tax Credit" and so they should, because they typically pay taxes in BOTH countries and dont use what services there are in Canada.

[Argus]

So now Canada's new global policy will become- "24/7 anywhere-Canada will Resc-U"

No, the policy is Canada will protect Canadian citizens. Isn't that what Israel is doing and which you support? You don't have the same the support for Canada doing it?

These people are only technically citizens. They came here to make money, picked up their passport, and then went home. Got that word? HOME? they went HOME. Now we're going to spend a fortune to bring them to Canada, give them instant welfare, health care, etc. And when the crisis in Lebanon is over? Yes, that's right. They'll go HOME again.

Canadians, eh?

[Argus]

Here's another example of what I mean:

Funny thing is.... lookit the pictures on TV of the Canadians fleeing Lebanon -- THERE ARE WHITE PEOPLE! Blond haired little kids included! Should we deny them access to Canada too or just the darkies?

Drea, that post is ignorant and vulgar. You would shut down legitimate discussion about who we let into Canada since according to you, anyone who objects to immigrants must be obsessed with skin colour.

Seems that way to me. Skin colour or percieved religion.

I doubt there would be any debate whatsoever if all the people being evacuated were white.

What if it were Britain being bombed and there were Canadians there? Would that make a difference to you?

Dear Drea, that would never happen. Britain is a civilized country, not a toilet.

What about snowbirds who spend half their life/income in the USA? Should we revoke their citizehip? Are they simply "plastic Canadians"?

No, because they were born here, grew up here, worked here, and live here during whatever time of the year they live here. That's not the same as people who came here, made money, and left, never to return, well, except for when they need something from us.

[gerryhatrick]

These people are only technically citizens.

Just like you.

They came here to make money, picked up their passport, and then went home. Got that word? HOME? they went HOME. Now we're going to spend a fortune to bring them to Canada....

The stupid thing is you know nothing about them. Zero.

There are more stories among them than there are brain cells in your head. And very few are likely to match your narrow generalization described above.

You are aware of the history of Canadian immigration from Lebanon? Doesn't sound like it. You should be aware that Lebanon only recently became stable and attractive for return visits for families who long ago made homes elsewhere.

Notice that word? HOMES. Like in Canada. Canadians, making homes, in Canada.

[jdobbin]

These people are only technically citizens. They came here to make money, picked up their passport, and then went home. Got that word? HOME? they went HOME. Now we're going to spend a fortune to bring them to Canada, give them instant welfare, health care, etc. And when the crisis in Lebanon is over? Yes, that's right. They'll go HOME again.

Canadians, eh?

So what if they are? They're Canadian citizens regardless. If you want to blame somebody for them being Canadian citizens, blame the Conservative government. Yes, the Conservative government. Most of them became Canadians under Mulroney. The same Muroney who advises Harper. Yes, that Harper. The same Harper who affirmed the immigration program that he inherited.

Get all of that?

[Argus]

These people are only technically citizens.

Just like you.

If you have a bureacratic legalistic view that "Canadian" is nothing more than a legal construct, then sure. If you have any sentimentality or emotional attachment to the idea of Canada as something more than lines on a map, to the idea that Canadians are more than legal constructs, well, but you don't.

They came here to make money, picked up their passport, and then went home. Got that word? HOME? they went HOME. Now we're going to spend a fortune to bring them to Canada....

The stupid thing is you know nothing about them. Zero.

The stupid thing is you say something so stupid without realizing how obviously wrong it is. For example, I know they were born in Lebanon, and live permanently in Lebanon. See? Wrong already.

There are more stories among them than there are brain cells in your head.

Oh, I doubt that. I'm awful smart. I must have a whole lot of brain cells.

And very few are likely to match your narrow generalization described above.

Oh, I'm thinking almost all of them match that generaliztion.

You are aware of the history of Canadian immigration from Lebanon? Doesn't sound like it. You should be aware that Lebanon only recently became stable and attractive for return visits for families who long ago made homes elsewhere.

You mean the ones who are now permanent residents of Lebanon?

Notice that word? HOMES. Like in Canada. Canadians, making homes, in Canada.

Cool. Too bad most of them don't do that, eh?

[gerryhatrick]

The stupid thing is you say something so stupid without realizing how obviously wrong it is. For example, I know they were born in Lebanon, and live permanently in Lebanon. See? Wrong already.

Yes, you are. And it remains stupid.

[Argus]

The stupid thing is you say something so stupid without realizing how obviously wrong it is. For example, I know they were born in Lebanon, and live permanently in Lebanon. See? Wrong already.

Yes, you are. And it remains stupid.

Hey, don't blame me if you can't read a newspaper.

[gerryhatrick]

The stupid thing is you say something so stupid without realizing how obviously wrong it is. For example, I know they were born in Lebanon, and live permanently in Lebanon. See? Wrong already.

Yes, you are. And it remains stupid.

Hey, don't blame me if you can't read a newspaper.

I can read the newspaper quite fine thankyou. I even provide newspaper links, as you can see in the thread about the cost of returning these Canadians.

I explained to you previously in this thread that many of these folks are Canadian residents who were vacationing. The reason for the large number of vacationers is our immigration policy towards Lebanese over the previous decades (giving us a large population, as many as 250,000) and the recent return to stability of Lebanon (just last year, was it not? the "cedar revolution"?) making the time right for a visit to old friends and family.

[Kindred]

Charity should be handled by charities -- not "governments

And where do charities get their money from? Oh yah Government Funding, duh - and why is it up to charities? Do you mean private citizens should donate money to rescue Canadians from a war zone? Your reasoning escapes me, what charities? Do you have the names of these charities that go into war zones to bring out innocent travellers and vacationers?

Its amazing, it truly is, you bitch your head off about people coming to Canada who arent lily white and abusing the services, then you bitch your head off if they leave Canada and dont use the services here - you really are one confused person arent you?

I realize that the majority of posters here havent travelled outside their own backyards, which is evident in their posts,

But people DO travel and visit other countries. And the majority of people waiting to be evacuated are Canadian tourists or visiting friends and families overseas. Or working overseas .. which doesnt mean they arent Canadian and doesnt mean they dont actually LIVE in Canada or consider Canada their home ......

Every country protects its own citizens if possible, where ever in the world they are in case of war and/or natural disaster ---

Someday God willing you will find yourself in the middle of a war or a tsunami and then you can take the high road and refuse assistance from the Canadian Government, but I guess thats just wishful thinking on my part, because you obviously dont travel or have any interest in broadening your horizons .by doing so ......

Where is the PROOF that the 50,000 - 60,000 Canadians in Lebanon were all borng there - making statements you cant back up with statistics is just pure crap .....

Argus why dont you for once back up what you say with some facts? Stretch a little ..........

[Canuck E Stan]

Ottawa to review help for non-resident citizens

Canada will re-examine the practice of paying to rescue its citizens who have made lives in other countries, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said yesterday as the evacuation in Lebanon winds down.

"The government has taken the view on this particular occasion that, given the circumstances, given how suddenly it came upon us, that we would spare no expense to protect and to secure the safety of any Canadians who wanted to come to Canada," Mr. Harper told reporters yesterday.

"I will tell you that we will review this. We will review lessons learned in this and we will make an assessment for future: what we believe we can credibly do and what we cannot credibly do. But, in this case, our objective was to get as many people who wanted, out as quickly as possible and, obviously, to give precedence to residents, but we didn't restrict it to residents."

Numbers suggest that most of the 8,700 people evacuated through the port of Beirut on ships chartered by Canada were tourists. Many Lebanese-Canadians have strong ties to their homeland and holiday there with relatives and friends.

But Mr. Harper's suggestion that the government will review the policy of helping to evacuate Canadians who have relocated to their countries of origin is unlikely to sit well with the immigrant communities he has been courting in his bid to win a majority government. His remarks represent another example of his willingness to take a strong and occasionally controversial stand on issues of principal or that appeal to his core constituency.

Won't be a popular stand with those with dual citizenship who make their permanent residency outside of Canada,but I bet those with singular Canadian citizenship will aprove of the move.

[Kindred]

What were those figures on welfare and immigrants again Argus? Something like 8% of Immigrants end up on welfare, and thats usually short term.

Ever been to a welfare office ? I have with clients and all I have seen there is WHITE people, dozens and dozens of BORN IN CANADA WHITE PEOPLE .........

You should do some research before you constantly open your mouth and make a fool of yourself.

[mikedavid00]

There are possibly over 100,000 or more Canadians citizens living in Israel as well.

Please quote your source on these numbers.

I'm waiting.

[jdobbin]

Please quote your source on these numbers.

I'm waiting.

What's with this waiting bit?

http://www1.cbs.gov.il/shnaton56/st04_04.pdf

Israel lists thousands of Canadian born Israelis, many of whom have dual citizenship. Summer is also brings thousands of high school and university students from Canada to the country where they live in homestays and college dorms. Numerous Canadians work as journalists, professors or businessmen in Israel. Israeli Canadians return to Israel from Canada each summer to stay with family.

In the last three weeks, two Israeli Canadian soldiers have been killed in the fighting. One Israeli Canadian has been arrested for spying. You can't walk two steps in Israel without bumping into a Canadian.

http://www1.cbs.gov.il/shnaton56/st23_06.pdf

[WillyNilly]

Canada has always had good relationships with other countries and Canadians have been welcomed in every country in the world. Usually the first question a Canadian is asked is "are you American or Canadian?" When you say Canadian the person asking almost always says "good, Canada is a good country."

This will change now. For business people, for students studying and travelling overseas, and for tourists.

The "innocent victims" of this war arent just those caught in the fire in the Middle East, its every Canadian who up until now has been seen as "good" and welcomed into other countries.

[mikedavid00]

Please quote your source on these numbers.

I'm waiting.

What's with this waiting bit?

http://www1.cbs.gov.il/shnaton56/st04_04.pdf

Thank you.

The document is showing less than 2000 from Canada in the last 16 years.

p.... p..... p'owned.

[mikedavid00]

Canada has always had good relationships with other countries and Canadians have been welcomed in every country in the world. Usually the first question a Canadian is asked is "are you American or Canadian?" When you say Canadian the person asking almost always says "good, Canada is a good country."

And then they complete the sentence:

"... because I have relatives there and they are trying to get me in"

[jdobbin]

What's with this waiting bit?

http://www1.cbs.gov.il/shnaton56/st04_04.pdf

Thank you.

The document is showing less than 2000 from Canada in the last 16 years.

p.... p..... p'owned.

That's just Canadians listed as immigrants in Israel by Israeli stats. As I mentioned, there are numerous other Canadians who are dual citizens in the country for research, education, business or extended pleasure. There are ordinary Canadian citizens there as well for the same purposes. Lebanon listed only 17,000 registered Canadians in the country when trouble started. As soon as fighting broke out, the number rose to 50,000. Most tourists or people travelling don't register with the embassy.

How many Canadians do you think live in Israel? Show me your figures. In tourism alone in 2004, 43,000 Canadians are listed as visiting the country, mostly in the summer. That is more or less the same number of Canadians that were in Lebanon. You can check those figues too if you like. They are on that site as well.

[Argus]

What were those figures on welfare and immigrants again Argus? Something like 8% of Immigrants end up on welfare, and thats usually short term.

Ever been to a welfare office ? I have with clients and all I have seen there is WHITE people, dozens and dozens of BORN IN CANADA WHITE PEOPLE .........

I don't think anyone here believes anything you say.

I've seen the projects. They're almost all Black.

[Riverwind]

I don't think anyone here believes anything you say. I've seen the projects. They're almost all Black.

Depends on the city. In Vancouver you will see Whites and Natives in the welfare lines. Asians and East Indians are under represented. The Black population extremely small.

[Argus]

Canada has always had good relationships with other countries and Canadians have been welcomed in every country in the world. Usually the first question a Canadian is asked is "are you American or Canadian?" When you say Canadian the person asking almost always says "good, Canada is a good country."

But given the chance of coming here or going to the US, virtually all of them would kill their own mother for a chance to go and become an American. Our major border problem is people who have come to Canada as immigrants or refugees trying to sneak into the US.

This will change now. For business people, for students studying and travelling overseas, and for tourists.The "innocent victims" of this war arent just those caught in the fire in the Middle East, its every Canadian who up until now has been seen as "good" and welcomed into other countries.

Sentimenal drivel completely unconnected to reality. Nobody in the world even knows what Canada's position is on the middle east, and nobody cares either. Tell me, what is Chile's position? Do you know? Does anyone? Does anyone care? Nope. I'm sure you can find it if you look for it, but I'm equally sure you could starve before you could find anyone on the street who knew a thing about Chile's positions on the middle east.

[Argus]

Please quote your source on these numbers.

I'm waiting.

What's with this waiting bit?

http://www1.cbs.gov.il/shnaton56/st04_04.pdf

Israel lists thousands of Canadian born Israelis, many of whom have dual citizenship. Summer is also brings thousands of high school and university students from Canada to the country where they live in homestays and college dorms. Numerous Canadians work as journalists, professors or businessmen in Israel. Israeli Canadians return to Israel from Canada each summer to stay with family.

In the last three weeks, two Israeli Canadian soldiers have been killed in the fighting. One Israeli Canadian has been arrested for spying. You can't walk two steps in Israel without bumping into a Canadian.

http://www1.cbs.gov.il/shnaton56/st23_06.pdf

One of the soldiers killed during the initial Hezbolah attack was a Canadian citizen. You didn't see the Canadian media going gaga over that, though. Nor have I even seen a single mention of it. Nobody cares what happens to Canadian Israelis. Certainly not the notoriously anti-semitic Canadian left.