How to Hurt ICBC

[Kindred]

Its time the people in BC did everything they can to get ICBC bounced the hell out of here.

You pay high premiums for coverage that you dont receive and cant collect on because ICBC denies most of the claims for things like Personal Injury.

Now they have placed an "Expiration Date" on Personal Injury Claims even though the medical community and everyone else knows that the full extent of injury is usually not apparent within SIX WEEKS of the accident.

They did not notify insurees that they had put this expiration date in place.

They have tried to deny personal injury claims to people who have been in a coma for six months following an accident, because they didnt file within the six week period. People are often too seriously injured to file within that magic six week period.

At the same time Managers and Supervisors received HUGE performance bonuses recently - for what?

If you run off a road because of ice and have to get your car fixed and file a claim ICBC then ups your rates by 40%. Even if there is no fault of your own.

You CAN fight back by getting the very minimum coverage required through ICBC and then getting the rest of your coverage through a private insurer, such as Family or Royal -

DONT give your money to ICBC for coverage they refuse to give you and then charge you a 40% penalty for filing a claim.

DONT pay for coverage through ICBC that you wont be able to collect on without a huge fight.

If you insure through a private company for collision etc ICBC CANNOT cancel your 40% discount - and why should you be penalized for using the insurance you pay for anyhow?

Hit ICBC where it hurts, financially - insure privately and buy only minimum coverage with ICBC

I have had two claims with the private insurer and they were concerned, courteous, and the claims were promptly paid - no arguing, no raising of my rates - and they dealt with ICBC for me when the other driver was charged. A rental vehicle was immediately available to me - no arguing over the cost of that or what kind of vehicle I rented ------

GO PRIVATE! Its time we got rid of ICBC completely -

[Riverwind]

If you run off a road because of ice and have to get your car fixed and file a claim ICBC then ups your rates by 40%. Even if there is no fault of your own.

ICBC is the most reasonable insurance company I have ever had to deal with. No private insurer would allow you to avoid a rate increase if you paid for some minor repairs yourself. All private insurers will use any excuse they can find to increase your rates.

Furthermore, ICBC publishes its rate schedules which makes it very easy to decide whether you would be better off making a claim or paying yourself. You never know what a private insurer will do. Having predictable insurance rates is a _huge_ benefit for most people.

Private insurers also look for any excuse to deny claims - their excuses may be different than ICBC but they will still come up with them.

ICBC a model of how to run a crown corporation that provides an essential service.

[Kindred]

If you do repairs yourself without involving your insurance company then how can it affect them or you? You lost me on that one.

ICBC also runs on the principle that the first person to report a claim must be the innocent party - not true. Someone on their way to work for instance would wait until they are off work to report a claim.

I have used two private insurers and have had nothing but good experiences with both of them. And had nothing but headaches with ICBC.

I have also lived in other Provinces and found private insurers no higher than ICBC and in most cases the rates were a lot lower. Alberta is one province where my insurance was almost half the price of ICBC coverage, mind you that was some years ago.

Sk insurance was the same price as ICBC and had no problems there when this woman creamed the side of my car.

Right now this psycho stoned out of her skull driver decided to make a right hand turn from the left hand lane and drive ACROSS the front of my car in the process with her SUV - I was in the right hand lane - attempted to run down two witnesses and fled the scene of the accident, was subsequently hit with a number of charges by the RCMP, and ICBC is refusing to honour my claim -

They told me repeatedly there were no witnesses, so it was my word against hers, even though as I said there were two witnesses who stopped and the charges by the RCMP -

They first tried to say I had to pay the deductible on the repairs, then said they didnt receive an accident report at all from me, and then refused to mail me Personal Injury Claim forms - until the magic expiration date had passed, then said "sorry too late".

Typical ICBC bullshit --

[geoffrey]

If you run off a road because of ice and have to get your car fixed and file a claim ICBC then ups your rates by 40%. Even if there is no fault of your own.

Driving too fast. If you slide on ice, you weren't driving with the conditions of the road. Come on people.

I was rear ended last winter by a young girl, and that's what she told the cop. "Honest sir, it was ice, I didn't know I couldn't stop."

Needless to say, the insurance company ruled in my favour and the girl's insurance was increased and she got a ticket for reckless driving to boot.

Someone is always at fault in a collision. No fault insurance is the most ridiculous concept I've ever heard of.

If you crash your car, don't expect me to pay for it through increased premiums for EVERYONE.

[Drea]

If you do repairs yourself without involving your insurance company then how can it affect them or you? You lost me on that one.

If you go to ICBC you've got a claim. If you just go to the body shop and pay for it yourself, no claim and ICBC doesn't care...

ICBC also runs on the principle that the first person to report a claim must be the innocent party - not true. Someone on their way to work for instance would wait until they are off work to report a claim.

This is NOT true. I was hit last month (actually the guy turned left in front of me) and I filed my claim after work. His fault 100%.

I have used two private insurers and have had nothing but good experiences with both of them. And had nothing but headaches with ICBC.

The poor fellow who turned left in front of me has Alberta insurance. They are refusing to cover him because he moved here two weeks prior to the accident and didn't inform them yet...

I have also lived in other Provinces and found private insurers no higher than ICBC and in most cases the rates were a lot lower. Alberta is one province where my insurance was almost half the price of ICBC coverage, mind you that was some years ago.

Some years ago, private insurance was cheaper, that's how they "hoodwinked" people into believing in private insurance!

Sk insurance was the same price as ICBC and had no problems there when this woman creamed the side of my car.

Right now this psycho stoned out of her skull driver decided to make a right hand turn from the left hand lane and drive ACROSS the front of my car in the process with her SUV - I was in the right hand lane - attempted to run down two witnesses and fled the scene of the accident, was subsequently hit with a number of charges by the RCMP, and ICBC is refusing to honour my claim -

They told me repeatedly there were no witnesses, so it was my word against hers, even though as I said there were two witnesses who stopped and the charges by the RCMP -

Did you get the names and phone numbers of the witnesses? I had a witness, ICBC called her and she backed up my version of events. Did the witnesses perhaps not back up your version?

They first tried to say I had to pay the deductible on the repairs, then said they didnt receive an accident report at all from me, and then refused to mail me Personal Injury Claim forms - until the magic expiration date had passed, then said "sorry too late".

There is no "magical expiry date". If you get hit and don't know if you are injured go to your chiropractor (gp's never want to be involved in ICBC claims). Your chiro will tell you it takes a few weeks to know if you are injured or not and will treat you. You then submit your chiro reciepts to ICBC and they pay you back.

Typical ICBC bullshit --

Try being the poor sucker in Easetern Canada who had one accident (heck everyone makes mistakes) then 2 fender benders in a row during the winter. All private insurers refused to insure him for under $10,000 per year.

Fair eh?

I'll keep our public insurance thanks very much!

[Riverwind]

If you do repairs yourself without involving your insurance company then how can it affect them or you? You lost me on that one.

Private insurance companies will raise your rates even if you do not make a claim if they find out that you had an accident from a police report. ICBC does not care how many accidents you have as long as you do not make a claim.

[Kindred]

ICBC didnt call the witnesses, I finally called them and asked them to call ICBC which they were happy to do because they had also had problems with this kind of crap from ICBC in the past.

Claim expiry dates

All claims have expiry dates, or "limitation periods". If you would like to know the limitation period of your ICBC claim, please contact your adjuster.

There are time limits that may bar your claim for recovery. If you miss the Statute of Limitations (SOL), you may be SOL! You should contact your lawyer immediately, as time limits to commence legal proceedings may be as short as two months from the time of the accident. If at all possible,

`Please remember, there are strict time limits for bringing claims. Some expire within days or weeks of an incident. Others can be years. If you miss a limitation, your claim can be lost forever. So never hesitate when it comes to finding out about and enforcing your legal rights.

The second issue before me is whether ICBC complied with its duty to assist under Section 6 of the Act by responding to the applicant without delay and in a manner that was open, accurate, and complete. The applicant alleges that ICBC failed in its duty in two respects: first, that the amount of time taken by ICBC to respond to his request was excessive; and, second, that ICBC failed to locate records known by the applicant to exist in his file...............

As an aside, it is useful to note that I have been concerned, in general, about time delays at ICBC in responding to requests for access to information and have discussed this issue with its president and senior officials who oversee the Information and Privacy Department. At the request of my Office, ICBC conducted an internal investigation into factors contributing to the delays in responding. In October 1998, I received a full report of the findings of the investigation, and an outline of the remedial actions ICBC proposed to take to reduce the backlog of requests and to eliminate similar delays in future. At a follow-up meeting in December 1998, I received further assurances that the problems now evident in this inquiry would be addressed.

David Flaherty Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner

ICBC is like WCB, everyone thinks it works well until they have to fight the system to get what they are entitled to.

[mockingbirdreturns]

If you run off a road because of ice and have to get your car fixed and file a claim ICBC then ups your rates by 40%. Even if there is no fault of your own.

Driving too fast. If you slide on ice, you weren't driving with the conditions of the road. Come on people.

I was rear ended last winter by a young girl, and that's what she told the cop. "Honest sir, it was ice, I didn't know I couldn't stop."

Needless to say, the insurance company ruled in my favour and the girl's insurance was increased and she got a ticket for reckless driving to boot.

Someone is always at fault in a collision. No fault insurance is the most ridiculous concept I've ever heard of.

If you crash your car, don't expect me to pay for it through increased premiums for EVERYONE.

Hmmm, and the chances that she was telling the truth?

.... as long as you showed her you fat bald old grouch.

[geoffrey]

Hmmm, and the chances that she was telling the truth?

.... as long as you showed her you fat bald old grouch.

Uhhh... she wasn't driving carefully, if you crash your car, you messed up. I stopped fine on that same patch of road. None the less, the no fault concept is what I was illustrating. Obviously someone is at fault in every collision, and they should pay for it, not everyone through cross the board increases. Why should someone else's mistakes increase my insurance? Shouldn't be a transfer system, should be a risk-cost balanced system.

I'm not old, or bald or fat unfortunately either.

[mockingbirdreturns]

Uhhh... she wasn't driving carefully, if you crash your car, you messed up. I stopped fine on that same patch of road. None the less, the no fault concept is what I was illustrating. Obviously someone is at fault in every collision, and they should pay for it, not everyone through cross the board increases. Why should someone else's mistakes increase my insurance? Shouldn't be a transfer system, should be a risk-cost balanced system.

I'm not old, or bald or fat unfortunately either.

That's not the point. You're placing the burden of blame of an entirely disgusting system on one person.

a) If the iraqis were not being tortuously gutted for their oil, and canada was not symbiotically dependant on the us, you wouldn't have a car to drive

The insurance industry is an astronomically bulge of corruption of everything I can think of. think about this.

This is just too painful to discuss.

[geoffrey]

Uh huh, I get most of my oil I use from pretty local supplies ok thanks.

If Iraq was about oil, there are much better targets.

Iraq and insurance are about the two most unconnected things I've ever heard of in the same sentance. What the heck.

[WillyNilly]

A person I know was told that because she had Fibromyalgia before her car accident she was not entitled to any ICBC benefits because her problems were probably not related to the accident, and she is more susceptible to injury because of the Fibromyaglia.

Back problems and whiplash injury that she did not have before the accident.

She was travelling at around 50-60 kph and ICBC said that speed was considered a "low velocity" speed and no one could be injured travelling at 50 kph unless their car went from 50 KPH to nothing. Where do they think her car travelled in order to slow down gradually after smashing into another vehicle that pulled out in front of her? You come to a dead stop when you smash into another vehicle that is cross ways to you and cutting in front of you.

ICBC said it was a "fender bender" and the two vehicles did not "collide" and neither vehicle came to a dead stop during the accident and that over $2500.00 damage to her car does not indicate anything different. She had to have repairs to her fender, her hood and head lights broken in the accident.

ICBC really sucks. People pay into it and get nothing back. They said they could deny a claim because of a "pre-existing" condition that made her "more susceptible" to injury than a "normal person" is. Now THAT his total nonsense.

In the meantime this woman I know hasnt been able to do her job and has had to quit.

[NickMel]

If you want to read my shocking story please visit:

http://icbc.hobby-site.com/

Nick

[geoffrey]

Summarize. I'm not interested in reading that many pages if I don't know what the deal is. I'm sure most hear agree with me.

All I read is the nice letter from the ICBC and you sound guilty as... ya.

[FTA Lawyer]

No solvent insurance company in the world is in the business of paying out claims loosely...gov't or private.

FTA

[guyser]

You pay high premiums for coverage that you dont receive and cant collect on because ICBC denies most of the claims for things like Personal Injury.

Talk to the Ombudsman and see what he can do.

Now they have placed an "Expiration Date" on Personal Injury Claims even though the medical community and everyone else knows that the full extent of injury is usually not apparent within SIX WEEKS of the accident.

They did not notify insurees that they had put this expiration date in place.

They have tried to deny personal injury claims to people who have been in a coma for six months following an accident, because they didnt file within the six week period. People are often too seriously injured to file within that magic six week period.

Something is missing from this example. It does not make sense at all to me.

Insurance companies "read-in" changes during the year but only positive changes , menaing that which benefits you. When it is a negative change, they must notify all insureds in a timely manner. A person in a coma from a car accident will not be denied once that reaches court.

If you run off a road because of ice and have to get your car fixed and file a claim ICBC then ups your rates by 40%. Even if there is no fault of your own.

If you run off the road, that is an "at fault" claim. After all, hundreds passed over the same road and did not lose control.If you are in an accident and deemed "not at fault" your rates should not change for that reason alone.

You CAN fight back by getting the very minimum coverage required through ICBC and then getting the rest of your coverage through a private insurer, such as Family or Royal -

DONT give your money to ICBC for coverage they refuse to give you and then charge you a 40% penalty for filing a claim.

Now you are talking.

[guyser]

All private insurers will use any excuse they can find to increase your rates.

Only the rules they have filed with the regulatory commision can be used to amend rates. Not "any" excuse.

Private insurers also look for any excuse to deny claims - their excuses may be different than ICBC but they will still come up with them.

ICBC a model of how to run a crown corporation that provides an essential service.

Private insurers will look to the policy and read it and then determine if paid or denied. Not any excuse.

[guyser]

Someone is always at fault in a collision. No fault insurance is the most ridiculous concept I've ever heard of.

If you crash your car, don't expect me to pay for it through increased premiums for EVERYONE.

It would be a "ridiculous concept" if that were true. Many people get this part wrong so you are in good company.

No fault insurance means YOUR ins company pays you for your damage without consideration of who is at fault. Under the old system , fault was determined before anyone did anything resulting in delays.

No fault is better, but I dont like a the threshold system that comes along with it.

Whenever anyone crashes a car geoffrey, we do all pay for it. That is the concept of insurance.

[Riverwind]

Only the rules they have filed with the regulatory commision can be used to amend rates. Not "any" excuse.

Which amounts to about any excuse. ICBC will only raise your rates if you have a claim. A fender bender which you pay out of your pocket will not affect your insurance rates. Private insurers will raise rate if they hear about a potential claim - even if it does not cost them a cent. This leads to the absurd situation where people try to keep minor accidents a secret.

ICBC is also predicatable. They publish their rate structure and it is easy to understand. If someone has an at fault accident they can predict how much it will cost them over the next 10 years and choose to settle privately. Not so with private insurance.

[guyser]

ICBC is also predicatable. They publish their rate structure and it is easy to understand. If someone has an at fault accident they can predict how much it will cost them over the next 10 years and choose to settle privately. Not so with private insurance.

Actually you can w private insurance. Ask a broker. Accidents are only (at fault) charged for 6 years.

[Riverwind]

Actually you can w private insurance. Ask a broker. Accidents are only (at fault) charged for 6 years.

They still raise your rates even if you don't make a claim.

[guyser]

They still raise your rates even if you don't make a claim.

No they dont. Should the third party make a claim, then there is a claim being made against you. But if no claim is made, no police report made, then they cannot nor do not.

[Riverwind]

No they dont. Should the third party make a claim, then there is a claim being made against you. But if no claim is made, no police report made, then they cannot nor do not.

Police reports get filled out for minor accidents - private insurers will use these police reports to increase rates even if you do not make a claim. ICBC the rules are simple: your rates don't go up if you don't cost us money.

[guyser]

Police reports get filled out for minor accidents - private insurers will use these police reports to increase rates even if you do not make a claim.

Sorry, no they dont neccesarily on both counts

[Riverwind]

Police reports get filled out for minor accidents - private insurers will use these police reports to increase rates even if you do not make a claim.

Sorry, no they dont necessarily on both counts

But you aren't denying that both _do_ happen. And that when the do happen the insured is usually shocked because the mechanisms used by private insurers to set rates are extremely opaque.