Mandatory Abortion Proposed in Holland

[scribblet]

I was going to tack this onto the abortion thread, but thought I'd post it here to see how people feel about this, and should Canada try something like it... IMHO this is going way too far, their euthanasia laws are also veryliberal (IMO), their slippery slope is now an icy slope.

Mandatory abortion proposed in Holland. Official calls for debate to deal with issue of unwanted children

© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

Marianne van den Anker A health official in the Netherlands has called for a debate on the idea of forced abortion and contraception to deal with what she sees as a crisis of unwanted children.

Alderman Marianne van den Anker of the Leefbaar Rotterdam Party wants specifically to target communities of Antilleans and Arubans where she sees the biggest problems of unwanted children.

Her comments have stirred protest by a health foundation working with those communities in Rotterdam. The group, which called the comments degrading, is asking Mayor Ivo Opstelten and other politicians to distance themselves from Van den Anker's views.

Van den Anker is a mother of two children and the official in charge of Rotterdam's health and security portfolios.

In an interview in a newspaper Saturday, she said she had tried everything to prevent child abuse.

"I fail, I fail," she told the interviewer as she outlined her controversial idea for a debate on compulsory abortion and contraception.

The target groups for her program are Antillean teenage mothers; drug addicts and people with mental handicaps, she said, according to a report in Expatica.

According to the report, Van den Anker said children from these groups run an "unacceptable risk" of growing up without love and with "violence, neglect, mistreatment and sexual abuse."

"The exceptions," she said, "and there are some, can be counted on a pair of hands."

Van den Anker pointed to the growing number of Antillean youth gangs in Rotterdam whose members come from loveless homes.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=48930

[Bryan]

When you leave a door wide open, unwelcome things can walk through.

[Montgomery Burns]

Good ole liberal Holland.

Would-be immigrants must watch a video of 2 men kissing in a park. If they can't stomach it, then no need for said immigrants to apply. Unless they are from a country like Iran. Then they don't have to watch the video of 2 men kissing. Or if they make a minimum of $54,000/year (typical greedy socialists).

[Riverwind]

I was going to tack this onto the abortion thread, but thought I'd post it here to see how people feel about this, and should Canada try something like it... IMHO this is going way too far, their euthanasia laws are also veryliberal (IMO), their slippery slope is now an icy slope.

We have many cases where drug addicted kids get pregnant and do severe damage to the fetus because they refuse to stop drinking and drugging while pregnant. Society ends up paying big time for these brain damaged kids who spend their life going in and out of jail and producing more brain damaged kids. The attitude that society should just sit back and do nothing is simple moral cowardice. I don't think mandatory abortion needs to be considered but mandatory sterilization and/or contraception is worth considering.

Any 'pro-life' person who thinks that society shouldn't try to limit the number of unwanted children should do some research on fetal alcohol syndrome. If that does not change your mind then I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and adopt one of these damaged kids that are already in gov't care.

[Montgomery Burns]

The target groups for her program are....people with mental handicaps

Wow! Just like Nazi Germany.

[Montgomery Burns]

An unnerving excerpt from Claire Berlinski's Menace in Europe : Why the Continent's Crisis Is America's, Too :

A policy widely applauded for its tolerance in fact permits Dutch doctors to kill deformed newborns, the retarded, and a great many elderly people who have specifically indicated that they have no desire to die. According to the Dutch government's own investigations, an average of sixteen people in the Netherlands are killed each day by their doctors without their consent.

The Netherland's population is only about 16.4 million.

[gerryhatrick]

I think it's a fantastic idea Monty.

[gerryhatrick]

and should Canada try something like it...

I was wondering why it's in the Canada politics area. Thanks for explaining.

[scribblet]

and should Canada try something like it...

I was wondering why it's in the Canada politics area. Thanks for explaining.

Well I wasn't sure about it.

I believe euthanasia has been coming up for debate in Canada, and won't be surprised to see something like this follow, although I doubt Canadians would be ready for it any time soon.

Meanwhile the French are extending their abortion limits.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1360960.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1389271.stm the Dutch have a floating abortion ship, maybe their next step is a floating euthanasia ship. While its not likely to happen anytime soon, this is the first attempt at bringing the issue into the public forum. Forced sterilization or contraception would be a better choice.

[Riverwind]

An unnerving excerpt from Claire Berlinski's

I find it mystifying that many on the hypocritical right find the idea of abortion or doctor assisted suicide so troubling but have no problem letting people die because they can afford to pay for medical services.

[lost&outofcontrol]

We have many cases where drug addicted kids get pregnant and do severe damage to the fetus because they refuse to stop drinking and drugging while pregnant. Society ends up paying big time for these brain damaged kids who spend their life going in and out of jail and producing more brain damaged kids. The attitude that society should just sit back and do nothing is simple moral cowardice. I don't think mandatory abortion needs to be considered but mandatory sterilization and/or contraception is worth considering.

Doesn't make much sense to me, it's just another measure attacking the symptoms(unwanted babies). Why do that when you could attack the cause(alcohol, drug addiction, teen pregnancies etc..). Sounds like another copout to me.

My too lefty cents.

edit**

Also mandatory sterilization is probably the biggest slippery slop you can get, who gets sterilized and who doesn't.

[Montgomery Burns]

An unnerving excerpt from Claire Berlinski's

I find it mystifying that many on the hypocritical right find the idea of abortion or doctor assisted suicide so troubling but have no problem letting people die because they can afford to pay for medical services.

I think you're confused. People are dying because they are forced to sit on long waiting lists. I have personal experience with this as it happened to a relation (through marriage) who died because he was on an 18 month waiting list. Hospital called 5 months after he died and announced that they were ready to operate on him.

I find it mystifying that the left has no problems with murdering the innocent, but they will take to the streets and protest the execution of their beloved Tookie. Perhaps I just don't understand that famed leftist "nuance".

[Riverwind]

I think you're confused. People are dying because they are forced to sit on long waiting lists.

And your solution is what? Allow people who can afford to pay purchase the the service they need? That solution will still mean that people who can't afford to pay die. Hypocrasy at its worst.

[Riverwind]

Doesn't make much sense to me, it's just another measure attacking the symptoms(unwanted babies). Why do that when you could attack the cause(alcohol, drug addiction, teen pregnancies etc..). Sounds like another copout to me.

You can't force someone to sober up that does not want to so sometimes it is necessary to take action to protect society from irresponsible actions of addicts. If someone drinks and drive we have no problem throwing them in jail because they might hurt someone else yet if someone drinks while pregnant we have a problem doing something that would prevent them from producing a severely damaged child. Mandatory abortion and birth control is a reasonable thing to do in these situations.

[geoffrey]

Just have jail time for mom's that drink while pregnant, just like DUI's.

[Riverwind]

Just have jail time for mom's that drink while pregnant, just like DUI's.

Our prisons are not particularily good places to put people if you want to make sure they don't drink or drug. That said, we could build secure rehab facilities that would keep such mothers away from booze. However, most of these mothers would choose an abortion rather than be locked up for 9 months so the system would end up looking a lot like a system of mandatory abortions.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I was going to tack this onto the abortion thread, but thought I'd post it here to see how people feel about this, and should Canada try something like it... IMHO this is going way too far, their euthanasia laws are also veryliberal (IMO), their slippery slope is now an icy slope.

Mandatory abortion proposed in Holland. Official calls for debate to deal with issue of unwanted children

© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

Marianne van den Anker A health official in the Netherlands has called for a debate on the idea of forced abortion and contraception to deal with what she sees as a crisis of unwanted children.

Alderman Marianne van den Anker of the Leefbaar Rotterdam Party wants specifically to target communities of Antilleans and Arubans where she sees the biggest problems of unwanted children.

Her comments have stirred protest by a health foundation working with those communities in Rotterdam. The group, which called the comments degrading, is asking Mayor Ivo Opstelten and other politicians to distance themselves from Van den Anker's views.

Van den Anker is a mother of two children and the official in charge of Rotterdam's health and security portfolios.

In an interview in a newspaper Saturday, she said she had tried everything to prevent child abuse.

"I fail, I fail," she told the interviewer as she outlined her controversial idea for a debate on compulsory abortion and contraception.

The target groups for her program are Antillean teenage mothers; drug addicts and people with mental handicaps, she said, according to a report in Expatica.

According to the report, Van den Anker said children from these groups run an "unacceptable risk" of growing up without love and with "violence, neglect, mistreatment and sexual abuse."

"The exceptions," she said, "and there are some, can be counted on a pair of hands."

Van den Anker pointed to the growing number of Antillean youth gangs in Rotterdam whose members come from loveless homes.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=48930

I guess if you wanna see where the runaway tolerant-socialist-bleeding-heart-progressive train leads...look to holland.

[geoffrey]

Just have jail time for mom's that drink while pregnant, just like DUI's.

Our prisons are not particularily good places to put people if you want to make sure they don't drink or drug. That said, we could build secure rehab facilities that would keep such mothers away from booze. However, most of these mothers would choose an abortion rather than be locked up for 9 months so the system would end up looking a lot like a system of mandatory abortions.

So what do we do? These children need our protecting, how do we protect them?

[Riverwind]

So what do we do? These children need our protecting, how do we protect them?

Which is my entire point -> the world is full of complicated moral problems and there are no easy solutions. In many cases we are forced to choose the lesser evil. In this situation, the lesser evil would be to prevent the children from being born in the first place through contraception and, if absolutely necessary abortion.

[geoffrey]

So what do we do? These children need our protecting, how do we protect them?

Which is my entire point -> the world is full of complicated moral problems and there are no easy solutions. In many cases we are forced to choose the lesser evil. In this situation, the lesser evil would be to prevent the children from being born in the first place through contraception and, if absolutely necessary abortion.

Contraception agreed, but abortion not agreed, that'd be the ultimate evil. We'll always be stuck on this impasse as long as we have different ideas when people are people.

This is actually a tough moral dilemma.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Contraception agreed, but abortion not agreed, that'd be the ultimate evil. We'll always be stuck on this impasse as long as we have different ideas when people are people.

This is actually a tough moral dilemma.

Agreed, this policy will just lead to another period of social eugenics.

[Riverwind]

Agreed, this policy will just lead to another period of social eugenics.

But in this situation doing nothing is clearly the greater evil.

[Montgomery Burns]

Riverwind:

I find it mystifying that many on the hypocritical right...

"Hypocrisy! Hypocrisy is the only sin that really inflames them. Inasmuch as liberals have no morals, they can sit back and criticize other people for failing to meet the standards that liberals simply renounce. It's an intriguing strategy. By openly admitting to being philanderers, draft dodgers, liars, weasels and cowards, liberals avoid ever being hypocrites." -- Ann Coulter

...find the idea of abortion or doctor assisted suicide so troubling but have no problem letting people die because they can afford to pay for medical services.

That doesn't even make sense.

[Riverwind]

Inasmuch as liberals have no morals, they can sit back and criticize other people for failing to meet the standards that liberals simply renounce.

Typical hate mongering that comes from the far right who want to believe the world is a is nice tidy place of good vs. evil. Unfortunately (for the far right), the world is much more complex and most moral issues require some thought and consideration about how to best balance the conflicting issues.

Children born with fetal alcohol syndrome are a serious problem for society. They will spend their lives going in and out of jail and will likely have severe addictions of their own. This kids will cost society a lot of money over their lifetime - and that is in addition to the victims who suffer from the crimes committed by these kids. Sticking your head in the sand an pretending that this problem does not exist is an act of moral cowardice. I don't believe that mandatory abortion is the best solution to this dilemma, however, I feel that it should be discussed as an option.

[Montgomery Burns]

Riverwind:

Typical hate mongering that comes from the far right who want to believe the world is a is nice tidy place of good vs. evil. Unfortunately (for the far right), the world is much more complex and most moral issues require some thought and consideration about how to best balance the conflicting issues.

Children born with fetal alcohol syndrome are a serious problem for society. They will spend their lives going in and out of jail and will likely have severe addictions of their own. This kids will cost society a lot of money over their lifetime - and that is in addition to the victims who suffer from the crimes committed by these kids. Sticking your head in the sand an pretending that this problem does not exist is an act of moral cowardice.

Typical hatemongering from the hard left who want to believe that that the world is a nice tidy place where everything and everyone is the same. How naive can you be? Unfortunately there is evil in this world. The hard left just can't recognize it. Indeed, they are often sympathetic to it. We've all seen the left protesting and comparing Bush to Hitler, but we haven't seen them protesting against Saddam or Osama Bin Laden.

How ghastly to kill an innocent baby (who does not even get the benefit of a trial unlike Tookie) just because these humans 'might' spend their lives going in and out of jail, 'might' have SEVERE addictions of their own, and 'might' cost society a lot of money, essentially they should be killed just because they are an inconvenience. :angry:

100,000 babies are murdered every year (average 274 every day) in Canada and about 97% of these murders are for no reason other than they are an inconvenience--not because of the mother's health being in danger, incest or rape.

That's what I call moral cowardice.

Keep it up but what if you abort yourself into near extinction? More conservatives will be coming into this world.